An outsider's view of the 2013 Bills.

[bills44]

Takes no balls to be negative all the time. It's all upside no matter how things turn out.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Unfortunately, we have the same miserable tools posting variations of their "Bills can do no right" crusades in thread after thread.

[BADOLBILZ]

Rarely post much anymore, and I'm hardly an apologist, but Pat Kirwan is the best football analyst, hands down, on the radio. There is no second. Anyone who listens to NFL radio, and any other radio station for that matter can tell this immediately. The guy knows football, speaks it's current lingo, and understands any and all schemes that teams use today. He's connected. His sources are still impeccable, and he's connected all around the league, including small places like Buffalo, which he often praises from his days getting pounded on when he was with the Jets. He frequently can tell callers if rumors flying around are far fetched or grounded in some truth. When teamed with Tim Ryan, they have a no nonsense football talk show and engage callers very intelligently about the game. For some reason, you tune in, not because it's so entertaining, it's because they, mostly Kirwan, know football and are still very connected to the insiders of the league. I would take Kirwan's take, ANYDAY, over anyone else on the radio, and probably TV. He's very good. In a nutshell, what he said about the Bills was that this is a team that looks like it has a bunch of young talent that should get better as the play more. He said, they aren't going to contend right away, but will be nightmares to defend once all the young offensive guys get start getting confident. As for the defense, they will be aggressive. That's for sure. Whether that translates into anything great, he wasn't sure. On Byrd, he hopes not, but usually when things get this far, it usually doesn't mean anything positive for the future. Not always, but usually.

 

So what you are saying is that he wasn't good at talent evaluation when it mattered, but he's the best now that he is just talking about it. Sorry, but he's just an entertainer and his takes are utterly random. Like I said, he was a Trent Edwards fan even after Buffalo cut him. I don't know how much more needed to be seen at that point, but apparently Pat still had some questions.

[Lv-Bills]

So what you are saying is that he wasn't good at talent evaluation when it mattered, but he's the best now that he is just talking about it. Sorry, but he's just an entertainer and his takes are utterly random. Like I said, he was a Trent Edwards fan even after Buffalo cut him. I don't know how much more needed to be seen at that point, but apparently Pat still had some questions.

Yeah, great take. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about, or you just like being combative. Bill Walsh LOVED Trent Edwards also. I guess that discredits everything he achieved in football. And Kirwan is about the least random guy on the radio, which makes your view of him bizarre. Again, Kirwan is one of the best analysts on the radio. Bar none. When one listens, it's obvious. And the fact that his stint with the Jets wasn't the greatest, he doesn't even hide that. But hey, if you say it enough, someone will believe you. Kirwan's work on the air, is generally well respected by NFL front office types, personnel people, GM's and fans alike. A rarity. And one can learn a lot by listening to him. Not you obviously, because you have it all figured out, but he's unquestionably one of the best. BTW, I don't think Kirwan was ever the GM. He was more of the cap and finance guy for the Jets. Edited August 3, 2013 by Lv-Bills

[hondo in seattle]

Yeah, great take. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about, or you just like being combative. Bill Walsh LOVED Trent Edwards also. I guess that discredits everything he achieved in football. And Kirwan is about the least random guy on the radio, which makes your view of him bizarre. Again, Kirwan is one of the best analysts on the radio. Bar none. When one listens, it's obvious. And the fact that his stint with the Jets wasn't the greatest, he doesn't even hide that. But hey, if you say it enough, someone will believe you. Kirwan's work on the air, is generally well respected by NFL front office types, personnel people, GM's and fans alike. A rarity. And one can learn a lot by listening to him. Not you obviously, because you have it all figured out, but he's unquestionably one of the best. BTW, I don't think Kirwan was ever the GM. He was more of the cap and finance guy for the Jets.

 

Yep, I agree. None of the talking heads are perfect. No GM is perfect. Talent evaluation can be tricky business. But Kirwan clearly knows football better than most of the guys who make a living commenting on it.

[K-9]

No, you have it all wrong. It is NOT OK for the team to keep losing. The object of the game is winning. When you aren't competitive for 10 or 15 years you really aren't even part of the equation any longer. That's where the Bills are right now. They are on the outside of the league looking in along with a handful of other poorly run organizations. Objective fans can see this and have toned down their expectations because there really is no point getting worked up about something that is poorly run and out of your control. Instead, a few damn fools kill themselves every September/October going into shock and deperession when....for some reason.....poor talent plus poor preparation ends up yielding more losses. My advice to you is find more hobbies.

 

You misunderstood my point. I have ALWAYS been optimistic about the Bills and I hold the position that it's unacceptable to lose and have been highly critical of many of the things they've done over the years. I never came close to saying it's all right to lose.

 

Seeing as you felt free to offer me advice, allow me to return some to you. My advice to you is to continue wallowing in your pessimism and mind your own phucking business when others choose to remain optimistic in spite of how challenging that is. Pessimism is for pu$$ies.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited August 3, 2013 by K-9

[bills44]

 

Pessimism is for pu$$ies.

 

 

So true.

 

Here's the stock (and predictable) response: "I'm not pessimistic! I'm just objective."

[BADOLBILZ]

Yeah, great take. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about, or you just like being combative. Bill Walsh LOVED Trent Edwards also. I guess that discredits everything he achieved in football. And Kirwan is about the least random guy on the radio, which makes your view of him bizarre. Again, Kirwan is one of the best analysts on the radio. Bar none. When one listens, it's obvious. And the fact that his stint with the Jets wasn't the greatest, he doesn't even hide that. But hey, if you say it enough, someone will believe you. Kirwan's work on the air, is generally well respected by NFL front office types, personnel people, GM's and fans alike. A rarity. And one can learn a lot by listening to him. Not you obviously, because you have it all figured out, but he's unquestionably one of the best. BTW, I don't think Kirwan was ever the GM. He was more of the cap and finance guy for the Jets.

 

I generally appreciate your takes, but Bill Walsh was long since deceased when Trent Edwards was released by the Bills. I don't believe Walsh ever saw Edwards take a snap in the NFL. Kirwan had the benefit of 3 plus NFL seasons of watching Edwards relentlessly check down and he was still advocating him as an NFL starter.

 

I won't argue that Kirwan has good connections around the league, he generally puts a positive spin on everything which endears him to his peers. But when it comes to him actually evaluating players with his own eyes......his track record is dick.

[BADOLBILZ]

You misunderstood my point. I have ALWAYS been optimistic about the Bills and I hold the position that it's unacceptable to lose and have been highly critical of many of the things they've done over the years. I never came close to saying it's all right to lose.

 

Seeing as you felt free to offer me advice, allow me to return some to you. My advice to you is to continue wallowing in your pessimism and mind your own phucking business when others choose to remain optimistic in spite of how challenging that is. Pessimism is for pu$$ies.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

First of all, you are the one who can't resist attacking anyone who is critical of the organization. That's what you do, you jump into threads/posts that are critical of the organization. You don't like it much when it gets turned around on you? Then take your own advice.

 

As for your attempt to de-humanize those that disagree with you.....hey, that was Riley Cooper's approach when the ushers wouldn't let him backstage.....there is an audience for it, but generally it just makes you look wrong.

[8-8 Forever?]

this is a fan board. I am officially reverting to raging fanatic mode. Assuming the team stays reasonably healthy (O line doesn't get wiped out week 3, that sort of thing) they could be very good with Spiller and Fred taking the load off EJ. Our run game will be great with that O Line and smith chandler blocking. they had it going last year when they used it. I am OK with the Kolb injury as the more reps ej gets the better. go bills

[K-9]

First of all, you are the one who can't resist attacking anyone who is critical of the organization. That's what you do, you jump into threads/posts that are critical of the organization. You don't like it much when it gets turned around on you? Then take your own advice.

 

As for your attempt to de-humanize those that disagree with you.....hey, that was Riley Cooper's approach when the ushers wouldn't let him backstage.....there is an audience for it, but generally it just makes you look wrong.

 

You haven't turned anything around on me so I'm not sure what you're referencing.

 

Dehumanize those that disagree with me? And now a comparison to Riley Cooper? Spare me.

 

You took it upon yourself to offer me advice. I did the same for you. Period.

 

Having first hand experience with the organization in the past, I do take umbrage at the incessant "Ralph is cheap" crap that gets tossed around and I freely admit that. You are right about that. But that's about it in terms of what really sets me off. I'm just as critical of the organization as anyone else. But if you think that all I do is jump into the middle of threads critical of the team, then you haven't been paying much attention since we formed this community back in 1996.

 

You wallow in pessimism and schit on anybody that has a positive word to say about the organization more than you do anything else around here. That's what you do. I don't think I've ever read a post from you that chose to see anything in a positive light. Key word being chose. Why anyone would choose to be a chronic stick in the mud is beyond me.

 

So you do your thing and I'll do mine. But maybe what I do wouldn't piss you off so much if you weren't so pissed off already.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

 

 

First of all, you are the one who can't resist attacking anyone who is critical of the organization. That's what you do, you jump into threads/posts that are critical of the organization. You don't like it much when it gets turned around on you? Then take your own advice.

 

As for your attempt to de-humanize those that disagree with you.....hey, that was Riley Cooper's approach when the ushers wouldn't let him backstage.....there is an audience for it, but generally it just makes you look wrong.

 

Wow, we've reached a new low: comparing a poster that shows optimism toward the team and eschews chronic misery to an outright bigot.

 

Mods, your move.

[BADOLBILZ]

Wow, we've reached a new low: comparing a poster that shows optimism toward the team and eschews chronic misery to an outright bigot.

 

Mods, your move.

 

Hey, I am not calling for K-9 to be banned or anything. I am just saying that you don't get on this board and start calling people pussies, faggots, etc.. because you don't like their argument. Everyone is guilty of doing something like that one point or another but you just can't do it here.

 

We have no idea if Riley Cooper is actually a bigot. When people get in a rage, they often say things that they know will de-humanize the person they are arguing with, whether it makes any sense in the context of the argument or whether they actually feel that way or not. That's part of being in a RAGE. It is the equivalent of saying you are less than me, you aren't worthy of arguing with me. It essentially ends ANY substantive back and forth and leaves the other party angry. That's why it offends people. Again.....there is an audience for it......in the case of what Cooper said, bigots like it.

 

In any event, I can pretty much guarantee that K-9 won't be keeping up the "negative fans are pussies" mantra. He knows it makes no sense and is wrong. You don't survive here this long and not know better than that.

[BADOLBILZ]

this is a fan board. I am officially reverting to raging fanatic mode. Assuming the team stays reasonably healthy (O line doesn't get wiped out week 3, that sort of thing) they could be very good with Spiller and Fred taking the load off EJ. Our run game will be great with that O Line and smith chandler blocking. they had it going last year when they used it. I am OK with the Kolb injury as the more reps ej gets the better. go bills

 

That is correct, this is a FAN BOARD. And there are all types.

 

When you are uncompetitive for 13 years that means there are those that choose to ignore the long losing track record and/or the current outlook and there are those that want to see the organization hire and acquire the right people and manage the team better. One thing we can all agree on is that we want to win.

 

To me, hating on other fans because they don't see the organization the way you do is the most ridiculous aspect of this board. It is far too common though.

 

It is never any fans fault when the team loses. People like Promo think it is, and they try relentlessly to shame objective and negative fans.

 

Here is the thing.....we are all here to get some kind of therapy to deal with the Bills losing. For me, talking about the issues and knowing what we are up against is all that it takes. I am easy.

 

You want to get on and be positive and see the glass as half full......that's great too.

 

But the attacking other fans simply for not being the way you are......that's BS. We don't own the Buffalo Bills, but we ARE the Buffalo Bills and there is no reason to displace your anger on other Bills fans.

 

We sell out games and support the team from all over the country, we buy and wear merchandise even if it associates us with losing, we throw parades when the team picks up another teams castoff QB.......we deserve praise, not criticism from within our own ranks.

[K-9]

Hey, I am not calling for K-9 to be banned or anything. I am just saying that you don't get on this board and start calling people pussies, faggots, etc.. because you don't like their argument. Everyone is guilty of doing something like that one point or another but you just can't do it here.

 

We have no idea if Riley Cooper is actually a bigot. When people get in a rage, they often say things that they know will de-humanize the person they are arguing with, whether it makes any sense in the context of the argument or whether they actually feel that way or not. That's part of being in a RAGE. It is the equivalent of saying you are less than me, you aren't worthy of arguing with me. It essentially ends ANY substantive back and forth and leaves the other party angry. That's why it offends people. Again.....there is an audience for it......in the case of what Cooper said, bigots like it.

 

In any event, I can pretty much guarantee that K-9 won't be keeping up the "negative fans are pussies" mantra. He knows it makes no sense and is wrong. You don't survive here this long and not know better than that.

 

My reference to pessimists as cowards (is that better for you?) has NOTHING to do with not liking anybody's arguments. And I don't refer to "negative" fans as yellow (gentle enough?). It is meant for those that would take the time and effort to not only decry another person's optimism, but actually insult them because of it. I'd explain that if I thought it wouldn't be lost on you. I see no reason to defend the thousands of enlightening exchanges I've had with those people I disagree with around here.

 

This attempt to equate my description of pessimists as pussies with Riley Cooper's overt bigotry is ridiculous. Calling a pessimist a gutless weakling (is that ok?) just isn't the same as using a defamatory remark to insult someone's sexuality.

 

I choose to hope for the best. You choose the opposite. Good luck with that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Gugny]

 

 

Hey, I am not calling for K-9 to be banned or anything.

 

Somehow, I think if you were to make that call, it would either be busy, or just keep ringing.

[BADOLBILZ]

My reference to pessimists as cowards (is that better for you?) has NOTHING to do with not liking anybody's arguments. And I don't refer to "negative" fans as yellow (gentle enough?). It is meant for those that would take the time and effort to not only decry another person's optimism, but actually insult them because of it. I'd explain that if I thought it wouldn't be lost on you. I see no reason to defend the thousands of enlightening exchanges I've had with those people I disagree with around here.

 

This attempt to equate my description of pessimists as pussies with Riley Cooper's overt bigotry is ridiculous. Calling a pessimist a gutless weakling (is that ok?) just isn't the same as using a defamatory remark to insult someone's sexuality.

 

I choose to hope for the best. You choose the opposite. Good luck with that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I don't know, maybe you do need a timeout.

 

There is no place for that here. This is a message board about a hobby.

 

Calling someone a coward or a gutless weakling really has no bearing on any argument about a pasttime.

 

It's just terminology meant to de-humanize. It doesn't matter that it doesn't relate to their race or sexuality. You don't know any of these people you are calling cowards so that should be your first clue that you are attempting to stereotype/stigmatize.

[K-9]

I don't know, maybe you do need a timeout.

 

There is no place for that here. This is a message board about a hobby.

 

Calling someone a coward or a gutless weakling really has no bearing on any argument about a pasttime.

 

It's just terminology meant to de-humanize. It doesn't matter that it doesn't relate to their race or sexuality. You don't know any of these people you are calling cowards so that should be your first clue that you are attempting to stereotype/stigmatize.

 

Glass houses, my friend. Glass houses.

 

Put down the stones.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

 

 

Hey, I am not calling for K-9 to be banned or anything. I am just saying that you don't get on this board and start calling people pussies, faggots, etc.. because you don't like their argument. Everyone is guilty of doing something like that one point or another but you just can't do it here.

 

We have no idea if Riley Cooper is actually a bigot. When people get in a rage, they often say things that they know will de-humanize the person they are arguing with, whether it makes any sense in the context of the argument or whether they actually feel that way or not. That's part of being in a RAGE. It is the equivalent of saying you are less than me, you aren't worthy of arguing with me. It essentially ends ANY substantive back and forth and leaves the other party angry. That's why it offends people. Again.....there is an audience for it......in the case of what Cooper said, bigots like it.

 

In any event, I can pretty much guarantee that K-9 won't be keeping up the "negative fans are pussies" mantra. He knows it makes no sense and is wrong. You don't survive here this long and not know better than that.

 

While I don't want to turn a "what Pat Kirwan says about the Bills" thread into a Riley Cooper discussion, I have just one comment:

 

Rage or no rage, you don't just fling drunken words that you haven't used in the past. There's an old adage: "what's down in the well is what comes up in the bucket".

 

We know what was in Cooper's well; the booze just brought it up in the bucket.

Edited August 4, 2013 by thebandit27

[BADOLBILZ]

While I don't want to turn a "what Pat Kirwan says about the Bills" thread into a Riley Cooper discussion, I have just one comment:

 

Rage or no rage, you don't just fling drunken words that you haven't used in the past. There's an old adage: "what's down in the well is what comes up in the bucket".

 

We know what was in Cooper's well; the booze just brought it up in the bucket.

 

Really couldn't care less about that. That is his problem and I don't need to speculate if he is a racist for one thing he said in his life. Maybe what was in the well was just the knowledge that the term would be demeaning or maybe he just hates black people. Don't know, don't care.

 

The point is that people use derrogatory terms in place of having a valid point.

[BADOLBILZ]

Glass houses, my friend. Glass houses.

 

Put down the stones.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

First I was a kitty, then it got "reduced" down to a coward and now I am your friend. Would you now like to apologize to "anyone you have offended"?

 

Kind of a choppy backpedal, but you aren't exactly starting material so it is what it is.

 

Honestly, you claim to have been here since 1996 but other than a rash of recent hate posts for fans I don't recall ever seeing a single take of yours that had anything memorable or thought provoking to it.

 

I dub thee the Chuck Lester of TBD.

 

Now you see, that is how you point an insult on a message board. It's pertinent and true. Not questioning your character, your manhood or anything else. Just your results.

 

Please, by all means keep telling anyone that is critical of the organization that they are pussies and cowards. I really can't wait to see a bunch of middle-aged men in a wrestling match at the TBD tailgate.