chris heff Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 That WGR figure of $3.75M is correct, but it includes bonuses already paid. If we cut him today, we only save $2.75M this year. Here's a few sources more authoritative than our local reporters. Link1 Link 2 Okay let's do it your way. Link 2, Over the Cap site, if I am reading it correctly, the only two people would create more Cap savings than Smith, would be Byrd and Kyle Williams.the next closest would be E. Wood and Chandler. So in order of Cap savings we have, Byrd, K. Williams, Smth, E. Wood and Chandler. No one else is close. What is wrong with this picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Okay let's do it your way. Link 2, Over the Cap site, if I am reading it correctly, the only two people would create more Cap savings than Smith, would be Byrd and Kyle Williams.the next closest would be E. Wood and Chandler. So in order of Cap savings we have, Byrd, K. Williams, Smth, E. Wood and Chandler. No one else is close. What is wrong with this picture? Well, if you're trying to say his production over the last 3 years isn't worth what we're paying him, you'll get no argument out of me. The question is, was it his fault or was he used incorrectly? I think it's a combination of both, and I think a new offensive-minded coach like Marrone who wants to feature an up-tempo west coast offense has to be intrigued. Like others in the thread have said, we aren't desperate to create cap space this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Well, if you're trying to say his production over the last 3 years isn't worth what we're paying him, you'll get no argument out of me. The question is, was it his fault or was he used incorrectly? I think it's a combination of both, and I think a new offensive-minded coach like Marrone who wants to feature an up-tempo west coast offense has to be intrigued. Like others in the thread have said, we aren't desperate to create cap space this year. If you have a choice between an intriguing rookie WR and Smith, what would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 If you have a choice between an intriguing rookie WR and Smith, what would you do? I guess it depends how intriguing. James Hardy level? Ultimately you have to trust the coach and his coordinators, it's hard for fans to gauge rookies in their 1st camp. But if Smith beats out that rookie in camp and earns a spot over him, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 If you have a choice between an intriguing rookie WR and Smith, what would you do? Intriguing like Marcus Easley, who for the better part of 3 years has done nothing. I remember how intrigued bills fans were with him and yet he couldn't beat out Smith when the WR core was decimated last year... Intriguing to me, can be a waste of a roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I guess it depends how intriguing. James Hardy level? Ultimately you have to trust the coach and his coordinators, it's hard for fans to gauge rookies in their 1st camp. But if Smith beats out that rookie in camp and earns a spot over him, so be it. Intriguing like Marcus Easley, who for the better part of 3 years has done nothing. I remember how intrigued bills fans were with him and yet he couldn't beat out Smith when the WR core was decimated last year... Intriguing to me, can be a waste of a roster spot. First I'd like to remind everyone that this thread is about possible Cap casualties. Not Easley, obviously not Hardy. How about Kaufman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Okay let's do it your way. Link 2, Over the Cap site, if I am reading it correctly, the only two people would create more Cap savings than Smith, would be Byrd and Kyle Williams.the next closest would be E. Wood and Chandler. So in order of Cap savings we have, Byrd, K. Williams, Smth, E. Wood and Chandler. No one else is close. What is wrong with this picture? Well, if you're trying to say his production over the last 3 years isn't worth what we're paying him, you'll get no argument out of me. The question is, was it his fault or was he used incorrectly? I think it's a combination of both, and I think a new offensive-minded coach like Marrone who wants to feature an up-tempo west coast offense has to be intrigued. Like others in the thread have said, we aren't desperate to create cap space this year. I think the new coaching staff is more concerned with production going forward, not what happened in the past. Yet again, if the new staff didn't think Brad Smith had a chance to be a significant contributor, they would have already shown him the door. Seeing as we don't need the cap space right now, it seems reasonable to let the players fight it out over roster spots instead of overreacting to possible future cap implications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) Yet again, if the new staff didn't think Brad Smith had a chance to be a significant contributor, they would have already shown him the door. I don't agree with your assertion. The staff had no idea how the draft was going to shake out, and, no idea what's going to happen with the rest of the standard off-season stuff (June 1st cuts, etc.) So, you keep Smith on the team, unless he's going to cost you an awful roster bonus. Now that they know they have a lot of WRs, and, if and only if they show, then you start thinking about cutting Brad Smith. They get to have 90 guys on the roster, and a lot can happen between now and the first game. The difference between Brad Smith and George Wilson was: Brad Smith has potential upside, while they knew what they had in Wilson, Barnett, etc. None of this means Brad Smith doesn't end up being cut. It only means that it's not prudent to cut him yet. In fact, activity at another roster position may end up being the reason he gets cut, or kept. Edited May 12, 2013 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I might guess that the coaching staff learned alot about potential this weekend and they will learn some more when the vets mix in. let the competitions begin ! go bills. o. my choice is chris white. probably save around 500k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I think the new coaching staff is more concerned with production going forward, not what happened in the past. Yet again, if the new staff didn't think Brad Smith had a chance to be a significant contributor, they would have already shown him the door. Seeing as we don't need the cap space right now, it seems reasonable to let the players fight it out over roster spots instead of overreacting to possible future cap implications. I don't agree with your assertion. The staff had no idea how the draft was going to shake out, and, no idea what's going to happen with the rest of the standard off-season stuff (June 1st cuts, etc.) So, you keep Smith on the team, unless he's going to cost you an awful roster bonus. Now that they know they have a lot of WRs, and, if and only if they show, then you start thinking about cutting Brad Smith. They get to have 90 guys on the roster, and a lot can happen between now and the first game. While it's been my constant opinion that Brad Smith will make the team, I didn't say he was a lock. Regardless I'm not really sure what your point is. The draft is over, they know what they have at WR as far as bodies go, and Brad Smith is on the roster. Again, there's no point in cutting him now but also, if they didn't think he could be a contributor, he wouldn't be on the roster. He's not being carried on the roster because he's considered a "camp body." They could have easily sent him the way of Donald Jones, David Nelson, Nick Barnett, Chad Rhinehart, Chris Kelsay, Shawne Merriman, Terrence McGee, George Wilson, etc. It was just one month ago they gave Brad Smith a $500,000 roster bonus. IMO will be brought to camp because they think he has a chance to win a job and be a big contributor on the team. I can't imagine any other reason that he'd still be on the roster. You usually don't give someone a half mil just to cut him before camp starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 and I would have said that he's safer than Kolb for the fact that he is similar in playing style as EJ. They can run the same offense. Kolb is more of a pocket passer. Therefore, of Kolb starts or EJ starts, and one of them is injured, now you must change the offense for the other QBs strengths. Jackson just seems to fit more with what they seem to be implementing. Kolb understands the WCO far better than any of the QBs on this team right now and that is the system Hackett is going to run. I don't know if TJ ran a WCO in Minnesota prior to Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Kolb understands the WCO far better than any of the QBs on this team right now and that is the system Hackett is going to run. I don't know if TJ ran a WCO in Minnesota prior to Seattle. Yes Jackson did. Favre and Childress were the principals there. Darrell Bevell was the OC as he was later in Seattle. All of them are West Coast Offense guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 It's not just a WCO. How will Kolb do with the run n shoot elements? K-Gun and New Orleans offenses will be part of what we're doing. Offenses built to attack deep. I suspect the short passing game will be a means to an end to open up the vertical game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwilson60 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Actually, it is. He only gets $1 mil (can’t believe I just typed only $1 mil) of that contract if he doesn’t make it out of camp. http://www.buffaloru...o-bills-stopgap Give me $1 mil (tax free), and I never work again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 While it's been my constant opinion that Brad Smith will make the team, I didn't say he was a lock. Regardless I'm not really sure what your point is. The draft is over, they know what they have at WR as far as bodies go, and Brad Smith is on the roster. Again, there's no point in cutting him now but also, if they didn't think he could be a contributor, he wouldn't be on the roster. He's not being carried on the roster because he's considered a "camp body." They could have easily sent him the way of Donald Jones, David Nelson, Nick Barnett, Chad Rhinehart, Chris Kelsay, Shawne Merriman, Terrence McGee, George Wilson, etc. It was just one month ago they gave Brad Smith a $500,000 roster bonus. IMO will be brought to camp because they think he has a chance to win a job and be a big contributor on the team. I can't imagine any other reason that he'd still be on the roster. You usually don't give someone a half mil just to cut him before camp starts. My point is simple. There's no reason to cut Smith, and a $500k roster bonus is not a reason either. $3 million? That's a reason. This doesn't mean that a reason to cut Smith won't present itself sooner or later. You're crediting Smith with more than he deserves at this point, IMHO. Not having a reason to cut a guy '= having a reason to keep him. As I said, given how he's been used thus far, a reasonable case can be made for him having an upside. But if this is a linear scale that takes everything into account, then Brad Smith is at 0, or perhaps 1. He can do things to move himself - or +, but, so can other people. In contrast George Wilson was at -2 at best, and practically nothing was going to move him from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Okay. We're kind of splitting hairs here. I've said on this forum that if they can get the same performance at less cost that they'd cut him. But the fact that they've eaten $500K tells me that they're entertaining a scenario where he's a significant contributor. The fact that they're even entertaining the possibility of carrying his $3 million salary tells me the same thing. A linear scale of what range? Zero and one tell me nothing without knowing the range. Why don't we talk in clearer terms. I'd say that Brad Smith is 50/50 to make the final roster. Whether he's cut or not, clearly I think that you're crediting Smith with less than he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Okay. We're kind of splitting hairs here. I've said on this forum that if they can get the same performance at less cost that they'd cut him. But the fact that they've eaten $500K tells me that they're entertaining a scenario where he's a significant contributor. The fact that they're even entertaining the possibility of carrying his $3 million salary tells me the same thing. A linear scale of what range? Zero and one tell me nothing without knowing the range. Why don't we talk in clearer terms. I'd say that Brad Smith is 50/50 to make the final roster. Whether he's cut or not, clearly I think that you're crediting Smith with less than he deserves. What surprises me is that Smith hasn't had a contract restructuring. At the least, I'd expect to have heard "leaks" of such negotiations, putting some pressure on Smith to restructure. I agree that we will see him on the 53-man roster, but I am very surprised that a player with little leverage in terms of production or guarantees hasn't been forced to restructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 What surprises me is that Smith hasn't had a contract restructuring. At the least, I'd expect to have heard "leaks" of such negotiations, putting some pressure on Smith to restructure. I agree that we will see him on the 53-man roster, but I am very surprised that a player with little leverage in terms of production or guarantees hasn't been forced to restructure. I don't want Brad Smith to restructure. That simply gives him more money upfront and a bigger cap hit later. If Brad needs to be here, he needs to be better than these 4 rookie WRs. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I don't understand all the Brad Smith love. What has he ever done to warrant this? Is he a viable back up QB? No, we have all seen him throw. A serviceable WR? Look at his attached stats. Great special teamer? He would have too be, but is he? Somebody please explain it too me. http://www.nfl.com/player/bradsmith/2506916/careerstats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I don't understand all the Brad Smith love. What has he ever done to warrant this? Is he a viable back up QB? No, we have all seen him throw. A serviceable WR? Look at his attached stats. Great special teamer? He would have too be, but is he? Somebody please explain it too me. http://www.nfl.com/p...916/careerstats I'm surprised that you say that because it seems to me that there's a lot more Brad Smith hate than there is Brad Smith love. The Bills believe he has potential as a wide receiver. It's been explained numerous times in this forum and I thought you were a regular reader here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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