The Big Cat Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Using the team's record and his dropoff in production is a silly argument. Calvin Johnson's team was terrible and he didn't get as many touchdowns. He obviously is the reason why. I get why people don't like what he said but it's a little over the top now. Hamstrings and groins only heal by rest. Overtraining leads to injury just as easily (see Merriman, Shawne). All I know is Stevie Johnson never misses games and gets open every single game. Look, may be we just need to back up. I'm not saying Stevie's remarks are a direct variable in the team's losing history (though I do believe that argument can be made, I'm just not making it right now). What i am arguing is that it was a selfish, irresponsible, immature and--quite frankly--a ludicrous thing for a professional athlete to say. And unfortunately, Stevie has a history of displaying all those behaviors, regardless of finishing in the top 20 in receiving yards. And if I was one of his teammates or--worse for him--his coach, I'd be PISSED. As a fan, it's more of the same from Stevie. And just because he's amassed 1,000 receiving yards in each of the last three seasons, doesn't negate the fact that he's in serious need of an attitude adjustment. What do you think I'm saying? My larger point (which wasn't stated but implied) is that some athletes know their bodies better than their trainers do and are dialed into the perfect balance of work and recovery. Now I'm not saying that is or isn't the case with Stevie but it's a true fact. To simply state for instance, that every wide receiver in football would be better had they done "The Jerry Rice Workout" is naive and misguided. Many people's bodies wouldn't stand up to the workload. Again, I'm not talking about Stevie here but working out in general. And that's all well and good. So Stevie's approach should have been to consult with his professional colleagues (the training staff), not take their program and toss in a drawer so he could hoop it up, run around the block with his wife and do the things that he likes to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Look, may be we just need to back up. I'm not saying Stevie's remarks are a direct variable in the team's losing history (though I do believe that argument can be made, I'm just not making it right now). What i am arguing is that it was a selfish, irresponsible, immature and--quite frankly--a ludicrous thing for a professional athlete to say. And unfortunately, Stevie has a history of displaying all those behaviors, regardless of finishing in the top 20 in receiving yards. And if I was one of his teammates or--worse for him--his coach, I'd be PISSED. As a fan, it's more of the same from Stevie. And just because he's amassed 1,000 receiving yards in each of the last three seasons, doesn't negate the fact that he's in serious need of an attitude adjustment. I honestly think you're taking Stevie way too seriously (no pun intended). He clearly comes into the season into shape, as you can't produce against the league's best the way he does if you're not in shape. His point, although clumsily made, was that he's going to take a different approach this off-season and do more targeted training, as opposed to just staying active. That, IMO, is the long and short of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 And that's all well and good. So Stevie's approach should have been to consult with his professional colleagues (the training staff), not take their program and toss in a drawer so he could hoop it up, run around the block with his wife and do the things that he likes to do. You're saying that. I'm not. I don't spend time with Stevie so I have no way of knowing. As I said earlier, it was a stupid thing for him to say. People say stupid things all the time. Unfortunately for him, he's a highly-scrutinized professional athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Look, may be we just need to back up. I'm not saying Stevie's remarks are a direct variable in the team's losing history (though I do believe that argument can be made, I'm just not making it right now). What i am arguing is that it was a selfish, irresponsible, immature and--quite frankly--a ludicrous thing for a professional athlete to say. And unfortunately, Stevie has a history of displaying all those behaviors, regardless of finishing in the top 20 in receiving yards. And if I was one of his teammates or--worse for him--his coach, I'd be PISSED. As a fan, it's more of the same from Stevie. And just because he's amassed 1,000 receiving yards in each of the last three seasons, doesn't negate the fact that he's in serious need of an attitude adjustment. And that's all well and good. So Stevie's approach should have been to consult with his professional colleagues (the training staff), not take their program and toss in a drawer so he could hoop it up, run around the block with his wife and do the things that he likes to do. I get why they would piss people off but he's a receiver who is ALWAYS open. If he was a linemen or LB, they might bother me more. I would be more interested in what kinda of route running and receiving drills does in the offseason more than his weight training. As a former college athlete myself, there are few better workouts than basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I get why they would piss people off but he's a receiver who is ALWAYS open. If he was a linemen or LB, they might bother me more. I would be more interested in what kinda of route running and receiving drills does in the offseason more than his weight training. As a former college athlete myself, there are few better workouts than basketball. Look, I get that he's naturally gifted, that he does awesome things on the field which are--at times--mind boggling, but he also has a knack for pissing off his coach by being selfish and immature (Week 17, 2011). And to me, that's the biggest issue here-- he needs to grow the !@#$ up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Look, may be we just need to back up. I'm not saying Stevie's remarks are a direct variable in the team's losing history (though I do believe that argument can be made, I'm just not making it right now). What i am arguing is that it was a selfish, irresponsible, immature and--quite frankly--a ludicrous thing for a professional athlete to say. And unfortunately, Stevie has a history of displaying all those behaviors, regardless of finishing in the top 20 in receiving yards. And if I was one of his teammates or--worse for him--his coach, I'd be PISSED. As a fan, it's more of the same from Stevie. And just because he's amassed 1,000 receiving yards in each of the last three seasons, doesn't negate the fact that he's in serious need of an attitude adjustment. Wasn't his entire quote about how he's going to rededicate himself to working out, and see if he can get even better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Using the team's record and his dropoff in production is a silly argument. Calvin Johnson's team was terrible and he didn't get as many touchdowns. He obviously is the reason why. I get why people don't like what he said but it's a little over the top now. Hamstrings and groins only heal by rest. Overtraining leads to injury just as easily (see Merriman, Shawne). All I know is Stevie Johnson never misses games and gets open every single game. The entire point for me is as follows: Stevie has produced for us (relative to the rest of the team) but his production when you look at other #1 WR's across the league is average to above average at best. When Stevie can put up Calvin Johnson numbers, or anywhere near that, maybe then he can sit on his butt all offseason and "recover." Calvin Johnson is already recognized as the #1 or #1a WR in the NFL so even mentioning him in this discussion is absurd - Stevie is more known for his big drops and antics after scoring than he is for his production, that is the difference. So that being the case, for Stevie to sit back and rest on his laurels (which in reality aren't that impressive to begin with), is quite disappointing. Also, Merriman not only overtrained, but he used PED's. To me, it's Stevie's mentality that bothers me...he referenced his 1,000yd seasons as if that's anywhere near the top in the NFL for a WR. I want players who always strive for the best at their position. The off-season is freaking long enough for the BILLS every single season b/c we never make the playoffs..I think that from January to June/July, Stevie has plenty of time to "rest" and then start training for the new season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Wasn't his entire quote about how he's going to rededicate himself to working out, and see if he can get even better? Not really, he eventually back-pedaled his way into that conclusion, but that was not how it came up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I honestly think you're taking Stevie way too seriously (no pun intended). He clearly comes into the season into shape, as you can't produce against the league's best the way he does if you're not in shape. His point, although clumsily made, was that he's going to take a different approach this off-season and do more targeted training, as opposed to just staying active. That, IMO, is the long and short of it... That is still a problem IMO. I don't want a player to just go through the motions, or do just enough to get another 1,000yd season...i want a player to reach his maximum potential, and if you don't train for your maximum potential, you're never going to get there. Maybe SJ already is at his maximum, who the heck knows, but I don't want to wonder, "damn, i wonder if SJ coulud get us 1,500yds and 12tds if he trained his a$$ off in the offseason"..that's my point. Again, I really like Stevie and i doubt he does asbolutely NOTHING during the offseason, but i also fear that there may be some truth in his silly statements, and if that's the case, it really disappoints me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 That is still a problem IMO. I don't want a player to just go through the motions, or do just enough to get another 1,000yd season...i want a player to reach his maximum potential, and if you don't train for your maximum potential, you're never going to get there. Maybe SJ already is at his maximum, who the heck knows, but I don't want to wonder, "damn, i wonder if SJ coulud get us 1,500yds and 12tds if he trained his a$$ off in the offseason"..that's my point. Again, I really like Stevie and i doubt he does asbolutely NOTHING during the offseason, but i also fear that there may be some truth in his silly statements, and if that's the case, it really disappoints me. Beers on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Ill say it again.... Everyone who questioned signing SJ because of concerns about his attitude and how he carries himself was shooed away. SJ, despite all the red flags about his off the field stuff was a MUST SIGN we were all told. Well, here we are and lots of the same people who DEMANDED he be signed NO MATTER WHAT his attitude is, are now ticked off. I say you have no right....You bought the whole hog, not just the bacon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Ill say it again.... Everyone who questioned signing SJ because of concerns about his attitude and how he carries himself was shooed away. SJ, despite all the red flags about his off the field stuff was a MUST SIGN we were all told. Well, here we are and lots of the same people who DEMANDED he be signed NO MATTER WHAT his attitude is, are now ticked off. I say you have no right....You bought the whole hog, not just the bacon. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Ill say it again.... Everyone who questioned signing SJ because of concerns about his attitude and how he carries himself was shooed away. SJ, despite all the red flags about his off the field stuff was a MUST SIGN we were all told. Well, here we are and lots of the same people who DEMANDED he be signed NO MATTER WHAT his attitude is, are now ticked off. I say you have no right....You bought the whole hog, not just the bacon. I'll say it again: SJ tweeting, rapping, celebrating after a TD don't bother me (though the penalties do, but whatever)...but him not striving to be his best does bother me. I don't have personal access to SJ's workout routines. I'm taking it from the horses mouth now. I always assumed he put his work in during the offseason, and the SJ that we see every season is the best-prepared SJ we're going to get. I'm finding this nonsense out now, however, and I don't like it. Clear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) Ill say it again.... Everyone who questioned signing SJ because of concerns about his attitude and how he carries himself was shooed away. SJ, despite all the red flags about his off the field stuff was a MUST SIGN we were all told. Well, here we are and lots of the same people who DEMANDED he be signed NO MATTER WHAT his attitude is, are now ticked off. I say you have no right....You bought the whole hog, not just the bacon. And I'll say again: feel free to link to anyone in this thread that DEMANDED he be signed NO MATTER WHAT his attitude is that is now ticked off. Until then, please don't make generalizations that don't apply to the people involved in this discussion without backing them up. Thanks. That is still a problem IMO. I don't want a player to just go through the motions, or do just enough to get another 1,000yd season...i want a player to reach his maximum potential, and if you don't train for your maximum potential, you're never going to get there. Maybe SJ already is at his maximum, who the heck knows, but I don't want to wonder, "damn, i wonder if SJ coulud get us 1,500yds and 12tds if he trained his a$$ off in the offseason"..that's my point. Again, I really like Stevie and i doubt he does asbolutely NOTHING during the offseason, but i also fear that there may be some truth in his silly statements, and if that's the case, it really disappoints me. I don't believe he simply goes through the motions. To me, it sounds more like his training was not targeted toward getting stronger/better in certain areas, but rather just staying active and in shape. You may take that to mean that he's just going through the motions, but, to me, that's not the same thing as staying active to keep yourself in shape while not pounding your body to keep yourself fresh for the season. Regardless, if we're taking him at his word, then that's apparently a thing of the past, and you can expect him to change his approach this off-season. Edited February 6, 2013 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Challenge Accepted: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/142916-the-education-of-stevie-johnson/ http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/141715-stevie-johnson-is-a-class-act-in-my-book-now/ http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/142136-maybe-stevie-is-better-than-we-thought/ http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/142144-if-stevie-johnson-is-not-retained-by-the-buffalo-bills/ And theres more, but Ill stop here. Apology Accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Challenge Accepted: http://forums.twobil...stevie-johnson/ http://forums.twobil...in-my-book-now/ http://forums.twobil...han-we-thought/ http://forums.twobil...-buffalo-bills/ And theres more, but Ill stop here. Apology Accepted. The high-and-mighty snark aside, I looked through 3 of the threads and didn't see one inkling of what you're referring to...so...No Empty Apology Offered. If you think that simply linking to threads discussing Stevie constitues support for your comment that the "same people who DEMANDED he be signed NO MATTER WHAT his attitude is that are now ticked off", you are wrong. I couldn't find one person who demanded he be re-signed that is now upset about it. If you did, then I welcome the post(s) that show it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Wasn't his entire quote about how he's going to rededicate himself to working out, and see if he can get even better? Stop it with the facts. I get why they would piss people off but he's a receiver who is ALWAYS open. And that should be the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Stop it with the facts. Right, except it's not the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Right, except it's not the facts. got some serious Stevie "haterade" going on. No soup for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 got some serious Stevie "haterade" going on. No soup for you. Well, there's true, and there's untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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