NFL looking to modify Rooney Rule

[Pneumonic]

It's about QUALIFIED candidates not being given a fair hearing. Your example merits zero consideration as it's ridiculous on its face.

Qualified .... what exactly is that? Have they defined it anywhere?

 

This is not about qualified anything. It's about getting more blacks opportunity to get interviewed, regardless of qualifications.

[bbb]

I thought that the Rooney Rule had been a success? What, one bad year and people are crying foul? I think the real racists are the brass in NYC.

 

http://www.lasentine...=106&Itemid=196

 

http://www.tampabay....anagers/1211219

 

This is what I thought. Good finds.

[26CornerBlitz]

Qualified .... what exactly is that? Have they defined it anywhere?

 

This is not about qualified anything. It's about getting more blacks opportunity to get interviewed, regardless of qualifications.

 

Okay.

[Pneumonic]

Okay.

 

The rule is explicit .... no team can hire a white candidate until they have interviewed a black candidate ..... regardless of the qualification of the black candidate.

[Glory Bound]

Let's not go crazy here. I mean purple I can see, but pink polka dot is where I draw the line.

If he or she got us to the playoffs, you would learn to love those pink polka dots!

[26CornerBlitz]

The rule is explicit .... no team can hire a white candidate until they have interviewed a black candidate ..... regardless of the qualification of the black candidate.

 

That's not the intent, although I will admit some teams have brought in any candidate with no intention of hiring just to check the box.

[Pneumonic]

That's not the intent, although I will admit some teams have brought in any candidate with no intention of hiring just to check the box.

 

I realize it's not the intent of the rule. It's the reality of it however which is why it's just as silly a my previously suggested hypothetical rule to make it a requirement for teams to get more white corners on their team. Both silly and total BS.

 

I'll tell you if I were black and offered a (token) interview for a job which I knew I was not the most qualified candidate I'd have too much pride to accept it.

[peterpan]

Most baseless comment I've seen on TSW in quite some time.

 

Not baseless at all.

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/02/09/10362607-white-firefighters-awarded-25-million-in-discrimination-case?lite

 

Similar cases in CT and LA were also filed and won.

 

Affirmative action anyone?

 

O, and the Rooney Rule, how come it doesn't apply to white players?

 

Every try to get into med school or get a civil service job as a white male? Its exponentially harder than if you are a woman or a minority.

[26CornerBlitz]

Not baseless at all.

 

http://usnews.nbcnew...ation-case?lite

 

Similar cases in CT and LA were also filed and won.

 

Affirmative action anyone?

 

O, and the Rooney Rule, how come it doesn't apply to white players?

 

Every try to get into med school or get a civil service job as a white male? Its exponentially harder than if you are a woman or a minority.

 

Citing a couple of successful reverse discrimination lawsuits does not equal the most discriminated against people. Overstatement.

[26CornerBlitz]

From Peter King's MMQB: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130121/peter-king-monday-morning-quarterback-conference-championships/?sct=hp_t11_a4&eref=sihp#all

 

Fourteen up, 14 down.

 

I spoke to one high-ranking team executive late Friday, after eight NFL coaching vacancies, five GM vacancies and one vice president of player personnel slot were filled -- all by white men. "Shocking,'' he said. "One by one they get filled, and you don't realize what happened until it's over, but that's not good for our league. Not good."

"I don't know what the answer is,'' a downcast Tony Dungy said Saturday night. "I just know the system is broken."

 

Look: It's not only minority candidates who should feel snubbed this morning. Cincinnati defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer got robbed too. Bruce Arians almost did -- he filled the last opening, Arizona, and was a bit incredulous that he was interviewed in only two of eight places after stepping into a very difficult situation in Indy this year and going 9-3 as an interim coach.

But the minority scoreboard is not good either. The fact that in 2013 only one minority coach came close to a head-coaching job (Ray Horton in Arizona) is a black eye. The fact that Lovie Smith (84 wins and a Super Bowl berth in Chicago, coming off a 10-win season) will sit out the year after being passed over this month is bad too.

 

According to research by my SI NFL writer friend Jim Trotter, 55 teams have won 10 games or more in the last five seasons, and Smith is the only one to have been fired the year he won double-digits. (Tony Dungy retired from the Colts after the 2008 season, but it was his choice.) Smith, after getting released by the Bears, had three interviews and no offers.

 

Worse, I think, is that candidates like Perry Fewell, Jim Caldwell and David Shaw don't get a sniff. Fewell is the Giants defensive coordinator who choreographed last year's Super Bowl-winning run over Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, Alex Smith and Tom Brady and held those four foes to an average of 14 points a game. No interviews this year. Caldwell won 28 games in three Indy seasons and loosened the reins on Joe Flacco and the Baltimore offense since taking over as Ravens offensive coordinator six weeks ago. No interviews. Shaw has led Stanford to two top-10 finishes, a 23-4 record and two BCS bowl games in his two seasons as head coach, and he has a nine-year record as an NFL assistant. 'No interviews -- though in fairness, he said he wanted to stay at Stanford this year. Still, did any teams call?'

 

"I think everybody is a little disappointed,'' Hue Jackson said Sunday. He's African-American, and he coached the Raiders to an 8-8 record in his one year as a head coach, 2011. "All you want and all you ask for is hope. You believe there's going to be a chance. I think we [minorities] can accept if we're not chosen, but if you're not chosen, you want to believe it was a level playing field. And when Perry Fewell wins the Super Bowl last year and doesn't get an interview this year, and when Jim Caldwell, with his record, doesn't get an interview ... I just would like to be sure it's fair for everyone."

 

Chris Mortensen said Friday the league will consider expanding the Rooney Rule -- mandating at least one minority candidate be interviewed for every opening -- to the coordinator level next year. That's smart. Jackson made another point: Earlier in his career, the league held a minority coaches' symposium for prospective minority coaches and coordinators, and sat an NFL owner at small tables with groups of minority candidates. "I sat with [Denver owner] Pat Bowlen that day, and I found it extremely valuable -- you felt you were sitting with a real decision-maker.'' The league could, and should, build on and expand both of those programs.

One other point: It's not just the coaching that needs attention here. Owners sign off on the coaching decisions. But more and more, it's general managers who have the primary role in winnowing the list of candidates down. The six major football jobs had two African-American finalists -- Ray Farmer in Cleveland, Jimmy Raye in San Diego -- but neither got the job despite impressive player-personnel resumes.

 

I'm reminded of one young African-American executive who got a chance as a young scout. Ozzie Newsome, the former star tight end learning the scouting and football business under owner Art Modell and coach Bill Belichick in Cleveland, was 39 when Modell of the new Baltimore Ravens tabbed him to be the relocated franchise's first GM in Maryland. That was early in 1996. The Ravens were choosing fourth and 26th in the first round. Modell had his eye on troubled Nebraska running back Lawrence Phillips, thinking a home-run-hitting running back would be an exciting ticket-seller in Baltimore's Memorial Stadium. Newsome and his scouts liked athletic and tall UCLA tackle Jonathan Ogden. Modell let it be known he still wanted Phillips, but wasn't going to stand in Newsome's way. You know how that goes. You had better be right, son. Newsome picked Ogden. Later in the same first round, Newsome tabbed University of Miami linebacker Ray Lewis.

 

Ozzie Newsome, in the first round of his first draft, had the kind of round very few GMs (maybe none) have ever had. I don't make book on such things, but it seems pretty likely Ogden and Lewis will both be enshrined in Canton one day.

 

Interesting what can happen when you give a man an opportunity.

[bbb]

Not baseless at all.

 

http://usnews.nbcnew...ation-case?lite

 

Similar cases in CT and LA were also filed and won.

 

Affirmative action anyone?

 

O, and the Rooney Rule, how come it doesn't apply to white players?

 

Every try to get into med school or get a civil service job as a white male? Its exponentially harder than if you are a woman or a minority.

 

 

I know some of those firefighters. The one I know the best was really put in a financial bind and a strain on his marriage when his wife had to go back to work even with three kids - because he didn't the promotion he earned.

[Hplarrm]

I realize it's not the intent of the rule. It's the reality of it however which is why it's just as silly a my previously suggested hypothetical rule to make it a requirement for teams to get more white corners on their team. Both silly and total BS.

 

I'll tell you if I were black and offered a (token) interview for a job which I knew I was not the most qualified candidate I'd have too much pride to accept it.

 

It would seem to be badly flawed logic (or alleged logic) to conclude there is some equivalence between the positions of CBs and the position of HCs.

 

One role is a posiion of power and authority while the other is that of an employee.

 

They are know where near equivalent and an analogy between he two makes no sense.

 

Further, the decision about qualifications is one which can be measured fairly objectively as to whether a player is a good corner, while the judgment about HC qualifications is a fairly subjective one compared to player talent judgments..

 

Again analogizing between the two makes little sense.

 

Finally, if there is any alleged discrimination against whites as CBs this seems to no reason why anyone would do this (even if the reasons for not hiring Blacks as HCs were simple stupidity which actually lessened the value of the product on the field as NFL teams seemed to routinely hire poor HCs like Rich Kotite due to good ol boy network while teams routinely passed on hiring Blacks who appeared quite qualified as being good HCs.

 

if for some reason you do not believe this when prior to the Rooney Rule the hiring of an HC with A-A descent was a relative rarity. However, after the Rooney Rule forced teams to at least gove A=As a chance, the # of A-A HCs quickly increaed and darn if a significant # of these new hire prove to be HCs capable of leading teams to SB appearances and wins!.

 

The @s pretty clearly show the Rooney Rule worked well to a point and the NFL deserves the benefit of the doubt in taking steps to strengthen an appproach which has improved the product.

[bbb]

The reason I think the Rooney Rule has worked is that all my friends (all white) wanted Lovie Smith. No one mentioned his race or anything. Just that he is the best candidate...........These are mostly South Buffalo guys, too, so you know how that area has been historically.

[8-8 Forever?]

with the way the league is, cutthroat, to say the least, i think the owners would climb over the graves of their mothers to hire the best guy they feel could win, regardless of color. i think the rooney rule is a joke, an insult to african -american candidates.. if a guy is qualified, he will be hired.. to believe that the owners are consciously not hiring african- americans doesnt seem plausible..

+1. Rooney rule is unnecessary. If you have the ability you will compete well for the job. Period. See Mike Tomlin. Quotas are bad policy. Never worked and never will. You have to want it, train for it, compete for it... before you have a chance to get it.

[4merper4mer]

+1. Rooney rule is unnecessary. If you have the ability you will compete well for the job. Period. See Mike Tomlin. Quotas are bad policy. Never worked and never will. You have to want it, train for it, compete for it... before you have a chance to get it.

 

I tend to agree and that is why I think it will end up going the way I predicted.

 

There are plenty of good white and black candidates for all the positions that end up open. The problem is that there are only a few every year. The league should step in and fire crappy white coaches/GMs if the teams won't do it themselves. The teams would be free to fire crappy black guys but the league would not step in. After the firings create more openings these will inevitably lead to more black coaches/GMs due to more spots being open.

 

I don't think the NFL should do this mid-season ever even if someone is as bad as Wannstedt for example. That could lead to continuity issues.

[KD in CA]

The reason I think the Rooney Rule has worked is that all my friends (all white) wanted Lovie Smith. No one mentioned his race or anything. Just that he is the best candidate...........These are mostly South Buffalo guys, too, so you know how that area has been historically.

 

That's some serious backward logic there. The fact that all your friends wanted Lovie is the reason the Rooney rule is silly and unnecessary.

 

I can't believe people really are so bought into this mindset they think owners who run down to the locker room after a game to exchange bear hugs with several sweaty, 260 pound black guys are going to then hire a coach he believes is inferior just because the coach is white.

[bbb]

That's some serious backward logic there. The fact that all your friends wanted Lovie is the reason the Rooney rule is silly and unnecessary.

 

I can't believe people really are so bought into this mindset they think owners who run down to the locker room after a game to exchange bear hugs with several sweaty, 260 pound black guys are going to then hire a coach he believes is inferior just because the coach is white.

 

I think it probably is unnecessary at this point, but it has seemed to work (Tomlin). What I'm arguing against is adding more to the Rooney Rule, which is what the NFL seems to want tot do.

[26CornerBlitz]

I think it probably is unnecessary at this point, but it has seemed to work (Tomlin). What I'm arguing against is adding more to the Rooney Rule, which is what the NFL seems to want tot do.

 

You're right, the reason no African American coaches have been hired as permanent HC from outside an NFL organization since 2007 is because none of the applicants were qualified. Yeah, no need for any action by the NFL.

[NoSaint]

From Peter King's MMQB: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130121/peter-king-monday-morning-quarterback-conference-championships/?sct=hp_t11_a4&eref=sihp#all

 

Fourteen up, 14 down.

Worse, I think, is that candidates like Perry Fewell, Jim Caldwell and David Shaw don't get a sniff.

 

 

Shaw just signed a new deal saying he was staying, fewells defense was lackluster and underperformed, and caldwell i think can go without saying why his reputation is tarnished (even though i think he gets it a little too hard at times)..... come on king, get it together.

[bbb]

You're right, the reason no African American coaches have been hired as permanent HC from outside an NFL organization since 2007 is because none of the applicants were qualified. Yeah, no need for any action by the NFL.

 

This is awesome. KD attacks me for being pro Rooney rule and you attack me for being anti Rooney rule.