Kevin Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Wow. Can't believe it took someone this long in the thread to go there. And if he had steak for dinner, then we should ban steak too, right? We get it, you're very clever. I'm sorry if I've offended you. But if you don't get my point then I can't help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Wait, I thought it was concluded that this was a direct result of CTE..... i dont doubt that his injury history was a contributing factor either (possibly both) directly or indirectly. the guy was abusing painkillers, and allegedly experienced extreme memory loss from his last concussion (didnt even remember how or why his girlfriend moved back into the house, despite talking her into it just weeks earlier according to friends). the role of CTE, if any role at all, in this is definitely up in the air but their was reason to suspect that his playing career may have contributed to the issues involved strongly. Edited January 15, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I'm sorry if I've offended you. But if you don't get my point then I can't help you. Of course I get your point. And I'm not that easily offended, believe me. Do you get my point too? Are guns as incidental to these two deaths as the alcohol he consumed? The steak he ate for dinner? The mouthwash he used? The Axe body spray he applied? Of all these inanimate objects/substances, there is only one that can be used to end someone else's life within a matter of seconds. So to answer your question, no, I do not anticiapte Bob Costas coming out in favor of any sort of alcohol ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 i dont doubt that his injury history was a contributing factor either (possibly both) directly or indirectly. the guy was abusing painkillers, and allegedly experienced extreme memory loss from his last concussion (didnt even remember how or why his girlfriend moved back into the house, despite talking her into it just weeks earlier according to friends). the role of CTE, if any role at all, in this is definitely up in the air but their was reason to suspect that his playing career may have contributed to the issues involved strongly. Memory loss is impossible to quantify--it is only what a patient tells you it is. But abusing narcotics and alcohol will do that independently of CTE. Perhaps he forgot the woman he was shacking up with hours before he committed murder/suicide was not the mother of his child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Of course I get your point. And I'm not that easily offended, believe me. Do you get my point too? Are guns as incidental to these two deaths as the alcohol he consumed? The steak he ate for dinner? The mouthwash he used? The Axe body spray he applied? Of all these inanimate objects/substances, there is only one that can be used to end someone else's life within a matter of seconds. So to answer your question, no, I do not anticiapte Bob Costas coming out in favor of any sort of alcohol ban. Automobiles can end lives instantly as well. So can knives (see GBID's "red hat" thread). Do we call for a ban on those as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Memory loss is impossible to quantify--it is only what a patient tells you it is. But abusing narcotics and alcohol will do that independently of CTE. Perhaps he forgot the woman he was shacking up with hours before he committed murder/suicide was not the mother of his child. well, thats all certainly true. and we have no idea any signs of CTE were present. i was just pointing out that the physical hell these guys put themselves through may have had a role in it still. roll in his love of guns, the temper that had shown up a bit before in his past, the drugs, the alcohol, the stress of a child being added, the stress of a new and potentially major injury (and it being in a contract year)... a lot of things were likely contributing. what brought it from really hot 211 degree water, to a full boil at 212 degrees that morning, we will never be able to say. theres really just no way. CTE may be excluded as a factor but i dont think his brain is up for study. from all the reading ive picked up on him the last few weeks its sad to say, there were dozens of huge red flags and a lot of them fed off of each other making it easy for the situation to escalate over time. Edited January 15, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Of course I get your point. And I'm not that easily offended, believe me. Do you get my point too? Are guns as incidental to these two deaths as the alcohol he consumed? The steak he ate for dinner? The mouthwash he used? The Axe body spray he applied? Of all these inanimate objects/substances, there is only one that can be used to end someone else's life within a matter of seconds. So to answer your question, no, I do not anticiapte Bob Costas coming out in favor of any sort of alcohol ban. Ummm....IMO alcohol could be a determining factor in why he ended up killing his GF and/or himself but the other things you mention not so much. Alcohol affects people's judgement, the other things you mention do not. A lot of people who are drunk become irrational and it causes some to become outright violent. I'm not even a big advocate of the 2nd ammendment (I see both sides) but your point doesn't really make much sense....the alcohol he consumes could very well have been a contributing factor to Belcher's lack of judgment that led to the incidents while the others you mentioned most certainly did not. It's not the same as eating a steak dinner or using axe bodyspray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Ummm....IMO alcohol could be a determining factor in why he ended up killing his GF and/or himself but the other things you mention not so much. Alcohol affects people's judgement, the other things you mention do not. A lot of people who are drunk become irrational and it causes some to become outright violent. I'm not even a big advocate of the 2nd ammendment (I see both sides) but your point doesn't really make much sense....the alcohol he consumes could very well have been a contributing factor to Belcher's lack of judgment that led to the incidents while the others you mentioned most certainly did not. It's not the same as eating a steak dinner or using axe bodyspray. Agreed 100%. But if he just got drunk and he didn't own a gun, the worst that would have happened is he would have hit her and she'd still be alive and would be able to seek help. The point is that by having the gun around, their dispute escalated into a death quicker than it would have had there not been a gun sitting around. Automobiles can end lives instantly as well. So can knives (see GBID's "red hat" thread). Do we call for a ban on those as well? Over 100,000 people were intentionally wounded or killed by firearms in America last year. How many people were intentionally run down by automobiles? Sadly, yes, other things can also kill us, but those are usually accidents. I hope you can recognize the distinction, Charlton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Agreed 100%. But if he just got drunk and he didn't own a gun, the worst that would have happened is he would have hit her and she'd still be alive and would be able to seek help. The point is that by having the gun around, their dispute escalated into a death quicker than it would have had there not been a gun sitting around. Over 100,000 people were intentionally wounded or killed by firearms in America last year. How many people were intentionally run down by automobiles? Sadly, yes, other things can also kill us, but those are usually accidents. I hope you can recognize the distinction, Charlton. its odd, because the last thread devolved quickly into the argument that an nfl linebacker would still kill her no matter what if he was angry enough to pull the trigger but had only his fists and no gun on hand. i wasnt really trying to start a gun control debate here.... Edited January 15, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 ...didn't even remember how or why his girlfriend moved back into the house, despite talking her into it just weeks earlier according to friends... Doesn't this happened to every guy at some point in their life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 its odd, because the last thread devolved quickly into the argument that an nfl linebacker would still kill her no matter what if he was angry enough to pull the trigger but had only his fists and no gun on hand. i wasnt really trying to start a gun control debate here.... That's preposterous. Possible? Yes. As likely? Give me a break. This is why I come on here for football information and discussion. But I can't resist responding when the bozos come out of the woodwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Wow. Can't believe it took someone this long in the thread to go there. And if he had steak for dinner, then we should ban steak too, right? We get it, you're very clever. If we ban steak only the criminals will have steak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 If we ban steak only the criminals will have steak. If we ban steak, I'm moving to Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 Doesn't this happened to every guy at some point in their life? you did get a chuckle out of me on that one! but on a serious note, friends were reporting he was totally confused as to why she was living with him again after the last concussion as she had moved out (his last memory of the relationship) and then he talked her into moving back in soon after (claimed no recolection, although as weo points out thats self reported from belcher, and ill add on is given by a friend after the fact so their could be issues with where the truth lies there) That's preposterous. Possible? Yes. As likely? Give me a break. This is why I come on here for football information and discussion. But I can't resist responding when the bozos come out of the woodwork. i totally understand. and why i was steering it a bit back off the gun control issue. it gets dicey around here at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 So I make a comment about Bob Costas' comments after the shooting and I'm a "bozo" now? Thanks Metz. Nice personal attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 So I make a comment about Bob Costas' comments after the shooting and I'm a "bozo" now? Thanks Metz. Nice personal attack. Bozo happened to be a tremendously well-respected clown- perhaps the most respected of his era. I'm sorry for the personal attack, but your "well should we ban alcohol now?" comment was so incredibly predictable and so easily refuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 We should be focusing on mental health, not gun control. I will not argue this point further, simply because there is no reason to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 We should be focusing on mental health, not gun control. I will not argue this point further, simply because there is no reason to. Agree ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 We should be focusing on mental health, not gun control. I will not argue this point further, simply because there is no reason to. but think of the children.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I don't know what the timeline was, but he could have done his drinking after he killed her. Just how slow do you figure the police dispatch in Kansas City to be? Maybe he took a trip to China in the meantime as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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