Chuck Knox’s 35th Anniversary

[Helpmenow]

 

 

It was at Foxboro... Cribbs ran the wrong way on a handoff, and Fergy was caught off guard and got crunched. Sigh.

 

Those Knox teams were great, but they also had a maddening tendency to come up extremely flat in some games--think of their two losses to Baltimore in 1980, in St. Louis in 1981, in Miami to end the 1981 season, or even their second half collapses against Atlanta in 1980 against Dallas on MNF in 1981. There was something emotionally fragile about that team, which is also reflected in how the 1982 strike completely destroyed them.

 

"Of all sad words of tongue and pen/The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'"

 

P.S. But the Stew Barber comments are so correct. He was a disaster as GM!

. Your right about fergy Edited January 12, 2013 by roush

[dhg]

Those were some fun years. Finally beating Miami in the home opener is a highlight I will never forget. Lots of characters on those teams too. Smerlas, Haslett, Dobler, Vilapiano, Robertson.

 

Knox was ruined by the ineptitude of the front office back then. Namely Stew Barber who was responsible for some of their big names like Smerlas, Butler, and Cribbs all holding out harboring resentment toward the team. The player's strike in '82 also hurt things here. He just didn't seem like the same guy after that and resigned shortly after.

 

Two words about Stew Barber....

 

Phil Dokes

[thewildrabbit]

Chuck Knox was the greatest thing to hit Buffalo....ever!

 

You old timers need to remember what it was like in Buffalo Back in the late 70's. An industrial wasteland, steel plants closing, High jobless rate, businesses closing. The Blizzard of 77. Too much snow, poisonous air and water. A bad bad football team with the stadium half filled during games. How bad you ask? So bad in fact they had only sold 18,000 season tickets, and we could not even get a home preseason game because people would not come out to see it. (back then Rich Stadium had 80,000+ seats)

 

The team and city were a national joke, a top target of nighttime TV host Johnny Carson who was always making jokes about how undesirable it was, as a place to live in the United States.

 

When Chuck Knox was hired he was not only the head coach but also the vice president of football operations (GM). The Buffalo Bills had finished 2-12 / 3-11 the seasons before Knox took over..

 

1980--The Bills, who had just five wins in two seasons before Knox took over, post an 11-5 record, win their first AFC East championship in 14 years and Knox is selected NFL Coach of the Year again.

1981--Buffalo's 10-4 record is good enough for a wild card spot and the Bills win their first postseason game since 1965.

 

 

 

It wasn't just GM Stew Barber tho (who had no business being a GM) Barber set up a dinner meeting with first round draft choice Tom Cousineau and then never showed up, never telephoned, never did anything

 

"I was waiting at the hotel (for dinner) and they never showed," Cousineau said. "They never called. I'm not kidding. Hearing no or being turned down or snubbed was not a new experience, but it seemed ... first of all very rude. And inhospitable."

 

"(Barber) was sort of the old guard," Cousineau said. "I think he resented the growth in salaries and where the game was going. I would imagine he'd have huge problems today."

 

The Bills at that time were known for their spendthrift ways, and the team was not a good one. In the five seasons between 1975 and 1980, the Bills won 17 games. It was not until Bill Polian took over in 1985 that the Bills started to win consistently. Was the Bills' offer fair? A Sports Illustrated story prior to the draft said Cousineau could expect an offer in the five-year, $1 million range, but Cousineau heard players taken after him made more.

 

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/04/21/tom-cousineau-reflects-on-being-chosen-one-in-1979/

 

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1755&dat=19830126&id=ghweAAAAIBAJ&sjid=SWgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3377,1877716

 

Joe Ferguson even went as far as to complain to the media about how Ralph Wilson wasn't willing to pay top dollar for talent.

 

http://www.buffalowins.com/features/what-if/27-whaf-if-chuck-knox-didnt-goto-the-seahawks-v15-1142.html

 

 

 

Chuck Knox had a 54-15 regular season record with the Rams when he was hired by the Buffalo Bills. Winning 5 straight NFC West Championships

 

Ralph Wilson had his very own Bill Belichick clone. A man who knew exactly what it took to build a winning NFL football team. A man who could evaluate talent properly on all levels. A man who was a supreme motivator, and could get a bunch of nobody's to believe in themselves to overachieve. Took a QB who would hang his head with every bad pass and turned him into a playoff caliber QB. A man who revamped the Bills scouting department and brought in head scout Norm Pollom, and most of his coaching staff from the Rams.

 

Yet Ralph Wilson let Chuck Knox walk away...the Seahawks were very grateful.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Knox was ruined by the ineptitude of the front office back then. Namely Stew Barber who was responsible for some of their big names like Smerlas, Butler, and Cribbs all holding out harboring resentment toward the team. The player's strike in '82 also hurt things here. He just didn't seem like the same guy after that and resigned shortly after.

 

Yet Ralph Wilson let Chuck Knox walk away...the Seahawks were very grateful.

 

Great posts.

 

Yeah Seattle was overjoyed. In the 9 seasons after he left the mismanaged Bills, Knox had 6 more winning seasons, leading Seattle to their first divisional title ever and becoming the first coach to ever win a divisional title with 3 different teams.

 

I don't understand how Chuck Knox doesn't get more consideration for the HOF.

[thewildrabbit]

Can anyone else imagine if Wilson had stepped up and had given Chuck Knox a new contract instead of letting him walk? Imagine Bill Polian as GM and Knox as head coach. Imagine winning those 4 super bowls and having a dynasty during the entire 80's and early 90's.

 

 

"What if Chuck Knox didn't leave the Bills? Chuck Knox and Jim Kelly? Yup, the offseason that Knox left for Seattle was the same time that the Bills drafted Jim Kelly. Maybe, with Knox having a coaching resume with 7 playoff appearances, and being viewed as a players coach, he might have been able to convince Kelly to not run for the USFL. You also have to understand that at the time, Knox was an awesome coach. Unlike Saban, who couldn't find success elsewhere, Knox was able to turn around the Rams, Bills and Seahawks. If he, Wilson and the GM were on the same page, he probably would have lasted at least a couple of more years. Maybe, we never hear of the name Marv Levy."

 

http://www.buffalowi...s-v15-1142.html

 

 

"It's just interesting that the two best coaches for the first 25 years of the franchise's existence, had such a huge falling out with management."

 

And two of the very best GM's the NFL has ever seen In John Butler and Bill Polian.

Edited January 12, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Great posts.

 

Yeah Seattle was overjoyed. In the 9 seasons after he left the mismanaged Bills, Knox had 6 more winning seasons, leading Seattle to their first divisional title ever and becoming the first coach to ever win a divisional title with 3 different teams.

 

I don't understand how Chuck Knox doesn't get more consideration for the HOF.

 

It's not fair, but his playoff futility is held against him. He was positively Schottenheimerian in the postseason.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

It's not fair, but his playoff futility is held against him. He was positively Schottenheimerian in the postseason.

 

Good point.

 

Jim Mora also had a sterling regular season record and brought the Saints their first postseason appearances.

 

But he was 0-6 in the playoffs (PLAYOFFS?!?!)

 

Apparently Knox was 7-11 in the playoffs.

 

And Schottenheimer was 5-13 in the playoffs.

Edited January 12, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Tcali]

Knox was ruined by the ineptitude of the front office back then. Namely Stew Barber who was responsible for some of their big names like Smerlas, Butler, and Cribbs all holding out harboring resentment toward the team. The player's strike in '82 also hurt things here. He just didn't seem like the same guy after that and resigned shortly after.

Stew Barber was the GM from hell

[Tcali]

Good point.

 

Jim Mora also had a sterling regular season record and brought the Saints their first postseason appearances.

 

But he was 0-6 in the playoffs (PLAYOFFS?!?!)

 

Apparently Knox was 7-11 in the playoffs.

i really dont think Knox was schottenheimerish in the post season.The Bills--altho a v good team 80-82--faced a team w superior talent in SD. And in seattle and LA he never had the most talented team.

Mora coached NO in the era of the superteams--the niners and cowboys .And of course he never had anything close to a Joe Montana at QB. Bobby Hebert was fitz with a better arm.

[bbb]

It was at Foxboro... Cribbs ran the wrong way on a handoff, and Fergy was caught off guard and got crunched. Sigh.

 

Those Knox teams were great, but they also had a maddening tendency to come up extremely flat in some games--think of their two losses to Baltimore in 1980, in St. Louis in 1981, in Miami to end the 1981 season, or even their second half collapses against Atlanta in 1980 against Dallas on MNF in 1981. There was something emotionally fragile about that team, which is also reflected in how the 1982 strike completely destroyed them.

 

After the smoke cleared on the 80s, I figured it all worked out. The '82 strike destroyed them, and from post strike '82 to pre strike '87, they were pretty horrible. Then, the '87 strike happened, and they took the lessons they learned from 82 and applied them. The team stuck together to do their own workouts, etc.

 

They came out of that '87 strike loaded for bear and it led to their greatest teams ever.

 

(But, damn - they were looking good after that Thursday night game vs. Minny to go 2-0. That was a fun game to be at. You felt no way could this end. We were all chanting No strike or something to that effect).

[San Jose Bills Fan]

i really dont think Knox was schottenheimerish in the post season.The Bills--altho a v good team 80-82--faced a team w superior talent in SD. And in seattle and LA he never had the most talented team.

Mora coached NO in the era of the superteams--the niners and cowboys .And of course he never had anything close to a Joe Montana at QB. Bobby Hebert was fitz with a better arm.

 

Yeah this was just a "first glance" analysis without any depth.

 

I was just brainstorming successful coaches who had sub 500 playoff records.

 

Knox had an aging John Hadl, Jim Harris, a rookie Ron Jaworski, a rookie Pat Haden, Joe Ferguson, Jim Zorn, and Dave Kreig as his QBs. Like Mora and Marty (excepting an aging Montana), he never had a great QB.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Yeah this was just a "first glance" analysis without any depth.

 

I was just brainstorming successful coaches who had sub 500 playoff records.

 

Knox had an aging John Hadl, Jim Harris, a rookie Ron Jaworski, a rookie Pat Haden, Joe Ferguson, Jim Zorn, and Dave Kreig as his QBs. Like Mora and Marty (excepting an aging Montana), he never had a great QB.

 

All true. As I said above, I do not think it is fair, but his never reaching the super bowl tends to overshadow Knox's success in building winners. They lost a bunch of close playoff games, to the Vikings and Cowboys mainly....

[Helpmenow]

 

Stew Barber was the GM from hell

. So was terry bledsoe

[GRHater69]

Bledsoe traded away Tony Hunter for Vince Ferragamo in '85, that pretty much ensured his demise and paved the way for Polian to take over.

 

Another thing that hurt Knox here were some bad drafts. His first ever choice, Terry Miller was a bust as was Perry Tuttle, and of course Booker Moore. Those are three number one picks who didn't really contribute. I'm leaving Cousineau off that list because trading him to Cleveland after his CFL days got us the pick for Jim Kelly.

[thewildrabbit]

Marty in KC did have a great QB in Joe Montana after the Niners traded him away. That 1993 AFC Championship game KC at Buffalo, final score Bills 30, KC 13

 

I have a pic of Bruce Smith standing over Joe M as he lying on the turf holding his helmet with both hands. Smith sacked him and concussed him.

 

After that Game Marty S complained to the league that the AFC Championship game should be held at a neutral site

 

 

 

Wanna know why the Bills were so good back then? 46 rushers, 229 yards, 3 TDs. Thurman Thomas 33 rushes for 186 yards, 3 TD's Passes, 17 for 27 for 160.

[bbb]

Thurman's best game ever..............Followed up by his unforgivable quitting in SB 28.

[Dante]

I was was at that game. First class seats, 3 rows up on the 40 visitors side(my Buddy's wife had won tickets at work). I clearly heard Shula yelling "WHAT ARE WE DOING OUT THERE!" Great memory.

We were in the upper deck for that one. I remember a section of the goal post actually made it up there after the game. Crowd was so excited.

Chuck is by far my favorite coach since being a Bills fan. We were even worse than we are now back then.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Dante

[Phil Hansen Forever]

I was too young to recall any of the "Ground Chuck" Era of the Bills but I wish I could have seen it in person: Bermuda Triangle and Joe Cribbs being my favorites to read about from that time. Talkin' Proud!

It wasn't all that great. He was a flash in the pan. After one year, all the NFL figured out his game plan and we sucked all over again.

[thewildrabbit]

Thurman's best game ever..............Followed up by his unforgivable quitting in SB 28.

For whatever reason the Cowboys just seemed to have the Buffalo Bills number, but then so did almost the entire NFC East as the NY Giants and Washington Redskins also beat Buffalo in the super bowl.

 

The Bills defense was ranked 28th against the run that year...Emmitt Smith had 30 attempts for 132 yards and 2 TD's.

 

Yea, Thurman fumbled. stuff happens. I wouldn't say the man quit on his team tho. Bitter much? The Bills only rushed Thurman 16 attempts for 37 yards. and he did catch 7 passes for 52 yards.

 

OTOH, Jim Kelly threw 31 of 50 attempts for 262 yards 0 TD's and 1 INT. Jim Kelly did still call his own plays and Ted Marchibroda was the HC in Baltimore the past 2 years

 

It wasn't all that great. He was a flash in the pan. After one year, all the NFL figured out his game plan and we sucked all over again.

what are you talking about?

[purple haze]

I was too young to recall any of the "Ground Chuck" Era of the Bills but I wish I could have seen it in person: Bermuda Triangle and Joe Cribbs being my favorites to read about from that time. Talkin' Proud!

 

Those were fighting teams. Played with an edge. Very gritty.