Mark Vader Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Pretty disgusted by this. They teased him for years. He's being punished for bills losing super bowls. Yet carter gets in having never even won a conference championship while having played on some talented teams, including alongside one of the top-5 best ever WRs in moss. Sapp also should not have been first time. After one ring in Tampa had several forgettable years in Oakland. Bottom line is this: both Carter and sapp are in the media as analysts, reed is not. Its a popularity contest. You want to increase your chances of the media voting you in the HoF, become part of the media. Several forgettable years? Every year he had in Oakland was forgettable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I agree with that and I never said moss was the only factor in carters success. I also mentioned how hot culpepper was, for example. It's the comparison of lofton to moss I take issue with. Look Carter was an excellent WR. I used to like watxhjng him play. At one time I thought he had best hands ever, but some key drops later on swayed me off that. He has #'s, he performed over a number of seasons. In the abstract I don't begrudge him, its going in ahead of reed I don't think is fair. I agree with all you've said.....except you may be overstating the Culpepper effect. Culpepper only QB'd for Carter in 27 games in 2000-2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) I agree with all you've said.....except you may be overstating the Culpepper effect. Culpepper only QB'd for Carter in 27 games in 2000-2001. Never said only culpepper either. Others mentioned other factors like dome, pass happy offense in Minnie, other good qb's, etc. They all factor in Edited February 3, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) The problem is you keep trying to play up lofton like he was some kind of stud that reed fed off of. Lofton was a sideshow to reed and clearly on the downside of his career. He wasn't the #1 wr on the team, reed was. Moss OTH was in his prime, Vikings #1, and the IMO the best deep threat ever. Couldn't ask for a better setup for an underneath wr like carter. So we can stop with the lofton - moss comparison let's look at their numbers. - loft on 4 season with bills 2736 yards, 21 TDs - moss 4 w/ vikes 5396 yards , 53 TDs There is no comparison. Its just silly to mention them in the same breath No one is comparing Moss' production to Lofton's, aside from you. You said Lofton was "aged" and washed up, then "waived" after the 1st Super Bowl. That is incorrect and Lofton's success as a deep threat from 1990-92 was crucial to the K-Gun and also Andre Reed. I'm not sure how that is not obvious during the Bills Super Bowl era (an admittedly small sample of Reed's career). Carter's numbers were spectacular before Randy Moss arrived in 1998 (2 seasons of 120+ catches). There's no reason to denigrate Carter's career and exaggerate Reed's--- they are both Hall worthy and each had different advantages/disadvantages. As I've already said, IMHO Reed is better. Edited February 3, 2013 by Punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 How Roger Craig isnt in is beyond me as well. He was a beast and his stats were only hurt by the fact he played with Rice, Taylor, Joe, Rathman, Clark, Jones...etc Steve Atwater too also deserves it...he was one of the best safeties in the game his entire career and a guy people feared. He changed games. That being said, I do think Carter and Reed deserve to get in before them, and Reed first simply because he has been eligible longer. I agree alpha...Craig did everything he could do when he got the touches.They just spread the ball so much. I think Craig was as good as Thurman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I also think Carter's role as a media blowhard helped grease the wheels of his election tram. Grease the wheels? He has been a finalist 5 times! Those aren't very greasy wheels..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Michael Irvin played 159 games, 750 receptions, 11,904 yards, 15.9 average, 65 td TDs. Andre Reed played 234 games, 951receptions, 13,198 ards, Cris Carter 234 games, 1,101 receptions, 13,899 yards, 12.6 average, 130 TDs. Cris Carter has better sats and deserves to be in the HOF. Irvin pales in comparison to both Carter and Reed. Maybe if Andre got a TV gig to keep himself front and center in the voters minds may get him over the top. Once again the HOF votes in a couple linemen and makes it tougher on skill position players. This year Andre knocked on the door. Next year he kicks it in and makes it. While I agree that Carter deserves to be in there...--I wouldnt let stats overwhelm you. I dont think any of those guys was better than alworth or lynn swann-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 While I agree that Carter deserves to be in there...--I wouldnt let stats overwhelm you. I dont think any of those guys was better than alworth or lynn swann-- I think that unfortunately the stats become a bigger factor as time progresses, and people forget how good players like Reed(who has lesser stats in many areas) were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 DeBartolo passed over again. All four first timers still in it. Tim Brown out. Sapp & Strahan can wait. Man, I hope Bettis does not make it, he does not deserve to be in the HOF. i disagree bout Bettis. remember he was a power AND speed guy for a few yrs before he became just a great power guy. I think that unfortunately the stats become a bigger factor as time progresses, and people forget how good players like Reed(who has lesser stats in many areas) were. i would agree. i really like quality as much as quantity though. as much as i love Reed--and think he was an excellent receiver--I think he is very borderline HoFwise because he was more of a steady eddy football player.Not spectacular. I actually agree w most of the committees decisions. I really thought that Thurman barely missing the first yr and in the second yr was dead on. 1st ballot is for dominating players. Bruce ,OJ.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) No one is comparing Moss' production to Lofton's, aside from you. You said Lofton was "aged" and washed up, then "waived" after the 1st Super Bowl. That is incorrect and Lofton's success as a deep threat from 1990-92 was crucial to the K-Gun and also Andre Reed. I'm not sure how that is not obvious during the Bills Super Bowl era (an admittedly small sample of Reed's career). Carter's numbers were spectacular before Randy Moss arrived in 1998 (2 seasons of 120+ catches). There's no reason to denigrate Carter's career and exaggerate Reed's--- they are both Hall worthy and each had different advantages/disadvantages. As I've already said, IMHO Reed is better. I said "aging", not "washed up" so stop with the bs. If you want to argue that a guy in his late 30's whose best year in buffalo was only the 6th best of his career, and was out of the league less than a year after parting ways with buffalo wasn't aging and past his prime, no point even bothering. And BTW I didnt say waived after 1st super bowl, I said a year after, as in one season. I will stand corrected it was 2 years. But even your correction was just more BS Edited February 3, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) I said "aging", not "washed up" so stop with the bs. If you want to argue that a guy in his late 30's whose best year in buffalo was only the 6th best of his career, and was out of the league less than a year after parting ways with buffalo wasn't aging and past his prime, no point even bothering. And BTW I didnt say waived after 1st super bowl, I said a year after, as in one season. I will stand corrected it was 2 years. But even your correction was just more BS When he was in Buffalo he was aged 33-36, not exactly "late 30's". He was inarguably a major factor for one of the most potent offenses in NFL history and a pro bowl starter in 1991. You literally said "waived a year after their first Super Bowl" which is obviously not what you're now claiming. I innocently thought it worth correcting. I also said it was a brief period but it was the closest Reed came to having a premier WR play opposite him. I have no idea what you're struggling against. I'm not even disagreeing with you. The funny part is that the first sentence in my initial reply to you was that I generally agree with your Moss point ("generally" because Carter was likely a Hall of Famer before Moss arrived--- Carter's best seasons were not with Moss, although those last 4 years in Minnesota received a boost from Randy's presence). Take a chill pill, for crying out loud. Edited February 3, 2013 by Punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 When he was in Buffalo he was aged 33-36, not exactly "late 30's". He was inarguably a major factor for one of the most potent offenses in NFL history and a pro bowl starter in 1991. You literally said "waived a year after their first Super Bowl" which is obviously not what you're now claiming. I innocently thought it worth correcting. I also said it was a brief period but it was the closest Reed came to having a premier WR play opposite him. I have no idea what you're struggling against. I'm not even disagreeing with you. The funny part is that the first sentence in my initial reply to you was that I generally agree with your Moss point ("generally" because Carter was likely a Hall of Famer before Moss arrived--- Carter's best seasons were not with Moss, although those last 4 years in Minnesota received a boost from Randy's presence). Take a chill pill, for crying out loud. With every post you make not acknowledging your BS lies and errors you're just digging your hole deeper. Lol nice work kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 With every post you make not acknowledging your BS lies and errors you're just digging your hole deeper. Lol nice work kid And the coup de gras for an interaction with Joe_the_6_pack: after he cannot address his sloppy posts and mischaracterizations, he refers to you as "kid" and further references mysterious "bs". This is why no one likes you. Have another beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) And the coup de gras for an interaction with Joe_the_6_pack: after he cannot address his sloppy posts and mischaracterizations, he refers to you as "kid" and further references mysterious "bs". This is why no one likes you. Have another beer. Lol so now after being exposed spreading BS, not being man enough to own up to it, you try to apply peer pressure claiming to speak for everyone. You really are a child. Certainly earned the kid name. Bout the all thing you "earned" around here BTW. Edited February 3, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Lol so now after being exposed spreading BS, not being man enough to own up to it, you try to apply peer pressure claiming to speak for everyone. You really are a child. Certainly earned the kid name. Bout the all thing you "earned" around here BTW. FFS, get over yourself. You make sloppy posts that are rife with errors and illogic. When anyone calls you on it, you jump to paranoid defense mode. This is your well known and well worn MO. I only disagreed with the details you wrote about Lofton's time in Buffalo, which were wrong. Cris Carter had a HoF worthy career before Randy Moss arrived, so you're also overstating his impact. Below is the original post of yours to which I initially replied (and aside from basic factual errors, mostly agreed with it's basic premise that Carter had more talented WR teammates than did Reed): Carter also benefitted hugely with the over the top attention the defense gave to moss. What do you think opened up all those underneath routes carter thrived on? Reed had an aging lofton who was waived by bills a year after their first super bowl, out of the league another year later, and don beebe ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Uh huh, same old bs from you. I already acknowledged it was 2 years not 1. Made a mistake, happens. Yet you claimed I said it was right after first super bowl, which I never said. And you claimed I said he was washed up, which I never said. I said he was "aging" which is well supported and others agree with. But yeah keep posting without acknowledging your BS, kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 Uh huh, same old bs from you. I already acknowledged it was 2 years not 1. Made a mistake, happens. Yet you claimed I said it was right after first super bowl, which I never said. And you claimed I said he was washed up, which I never said. I said he was "aging" which is well supported and others agree with. But yeah keep posting without acknowledging your BS, kid I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 It seems that if you work for the NFL or the networks then you're a shoe-in. Maybe Andre should seek employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 Where's Chan when you need him to say it's Andre's turn? Another long year to wait again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 The one thing that pisses me off is the Headline on BB.com "Reed again overlooked for 2013 Hall of Fame class". It's classless to even suggest that. Reed wasn't overlooked. Those selected were clearly deserving and were more prominent individuals. Reed will get his induction in due time, as will Tasker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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