Dark Fan Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 its not just about talent but the ever elusive "Football IQ". Bellichick seems to get smart players that can do what he asks them to do in his system. I seriously question the brain power and decision making of more than a few Bills (especially on the D side of the ball) like Graham,Williams, McKelvin, Sheppard who cant seem to get coached up and make the same mistakes over and over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Sorry but you are dreaming. Are those players bad, no, but start on any other team? Cordy Glenn has potential, but probably isn't more then 2 or 3 teams he would start on at left tackle. Chandler isn't going to start in Dallas, New England, Atlanta and several others. Probably only 1 or 2 other teams that Stevie Johnson starts on as a #1 receiver, if that. Spiller doesn't even start on probably half of the teams in the league. If all these players would start on any of the 31 teams, we not only would have a boat load of Pro Bowlers, we still would be playing in the playoffs, not losing double digit games every season. Levitre, Byrd, Wood, Mario, Kyle and Spiller are all top 10 at their positions. The only team Spiller wouldn't start on would be Minnesota its not just about talent but the ever elusive "Football IQ". Bellichick seems to get smart players that can do what he asks them to do in his system. I seriously question the brain power and decision making of more than a few Bills (especially on the D side of the ball) like Graham,Williams, McKelvin, Sheppard who cant seem to get coached up and make the same mistakes over and over again One Bills player that displays a lot of IQ is Kyle Williams...most effective interior lineman I have ever seen in blowing up screens...he sniffs them out, gets to the RB and forces a loss on the play by tackling him or Zn incompletion by forcing a throw at the feet or the QB runs for his life and throws the ball away...dude is a beast in recognizing those... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBill Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Levitre, Byrd, Wood, Mario, Kyle and Spiller are all top 10 at their positions. The only team Spiller wouldn't start on would be Minnesota I didn't say not top 10, the post said they would start on any other team, simply isn't even close to being true. Spiller wouldn't start in Baltimore, Houston, Seattle and it would be a toss up in Kansas City, Washington and a couple others. Heck, until Fred got injured he didn't even start here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 My own opinion is that the 2012 Bills had enough talent to go 8-8 or maybe a little better if coached well. It's not a great roster but the cupboard isn't bare. Good coaches put players in position to make plays. Good leaders get the best out of people. Wanny was neither a good coach nor a good leader. I think his ineptitude made some of the defensive players perform worse than their optimum. Some of these guys will produce better, I think and hope, under Marrone. The offense players mostly are who we think they are. We really need a QB, Freddy needs to get healthy, and Spiller needs more touches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 We need an accurate QB, one more WR, one more TE, two more LB's one more CB and a strength and conditioning program that helps prevent injuries. Then it's SB time. My own opinion is that the 2012 Bills had enough talent to go 8-8 or maybe a little better if coached well. It's not a great roster but the cupboard isn't bare. Good coaches put players in position to make plays. Good leaders get the best out of people. Wanny was neither a good coach nor a good leader. I think his ineptitude made some of the defensive players perform worse than their optimum. Some of these guys will produce better, I think and hope, under Marrone. The offense players mostly are who we think they are. We really need a QB, Freddy needs to get healthy, and Spiller needs more touches. +1 The stach really cost us big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Enough that lots of coaches seeked the Bills out, and our current coach decided after watching all our games and 3 other teams games this year that we had the most talent... Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 We need an accurate QB, one more WR, one more TE, two more LB's one more CB and a strength and conditioning program that helps prevent injuries. Then it's SB time. +1 The stach really cost us big time. I would agree with you except I think you're short a coupla positions. I think we need a starting RT and RDE. That's 8 out 22 starters. SB?? its not just about talent but the ever elusive "Football IQ". Bellichick seems to get smart players that can do what he asks them to do in his system. I seriously question the brain power and decision making of more than a few Bills (especially on the D side of the ball) like Graham,Williams, McKelvin, Sheppard who cant seem to get coached up and make the same mistakes over and over again +1. There's more to this game than talent. I would even throw Dareus and the great Kyle Williams in your analysis. Makes me yearn for the Pat Williams days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I would agree with you except I think you're short a coupla positions. I think we need a starting RT and RDE. That's 8 out 22 starters. SB?? I think the defense quit on the stach. Get a better DC and a better def. scheme with some blitz's and this def. unit will perform better because they will feed on the energy of being good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Enough that lots of coaches seeked the Bills out, and our current coach decided after watching all our games and 3 other teams games this year that we had the most talent... This. Subjective experts were willing to talk to us or sought us out. How different this is from last time. Coaches know they have to show significant upwards progress by year 2 and that's really hard if the cupboard is bare when they arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 BTW, we might not have a franchise QB on this club, but we might have someone better than Fitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I don't blame or feel negative towards all of those Bills fans who perceive that we do not have a good deal of talent on the roster. Year after year we see young players hit the squad that are full of potential.....and we wait....and hope...and pray that the potential develops into actual solid, good or great ability....but we have been disappointed every year. Year after year of wasted draft picks, wasted FA acquisitions and it often seems that the talent we do develop we let go to other teams. I don't blame people at all for feeling we are much the same as we have been for the last 13 years. In my mind however there are three things that are giving me a positive outlook. 1. The 2004 Chargers In 2003 the Chargers went 4-12 and were universally considered.....even after their draft & off-season moves to be a totally talentless team. All they had was LaDainian Tomlinson. I recall looking through my preview magazines at the time with friends laughing at how pathetic their roster was. Apart from LT they had absolutely nobody. No players ranked in the top 100, no QB.....nobody. After their 12-4 2004 season their slew of horrible irrelevant players had improved to being considered good to very good with several pro bowl players. (It certainly helped that Brees stepped up that year). This is how team play often works. When things start going well, players start to perform and shine. 2. Spiller During this last season I realized that it has been over a decade since the Bills have had a true STAR player. We have had some good ones over that time.....a few pro bowls etc....but no player(apart from punter or PR) that truly stood out as a legitimate STAR at their position. Spiller in my mind is one step away from being that star player. On top of that we have Mario Williams(who'd have ever thought we'd land him???) and a few legit play-makers in K.Williams, Byrd, Stevie Johnson(he may not be a star, but he pulls in some amazing catches and helped Fitz look better than he is), Wood & Levitre....plus McKelvin on PR. That group of players have more play making ability than any group we have had in over a decade IMO. 3. The Front Office Last off-season saw the first time in 20(25?) years that the Bills not only targeted but landed a huge name FA. The significance of this IMO is massive. It meant the potential start of doing things in a different manner than we have done....in a manner which is pro active...a manner which wasn't wait and see, save $$$ or slow & steady. Before the 2012 season ended Nix announced his #1 priority.....to find a Franchise Quarterback. He didn't kitty foot around to spare Fitz's feelings or hold back for fear of being unable to achieve it....he made QB the #1 priority. Furthermore, we grab a HC who is not our usual cheap retread loser retard.....and we do it in a way that somehow seemed prescient and screwed with the other teams looking for a HC. The front office is really starting to look like it perhaps knows what it is doing. They are the reasons why, when I look at our roster, I see a group of young players full of potential. A Star RB....a bunch of play-makers....a solid veteran core....4 rookie starters who may improve to be solid - great players.....A future 2013 rookie class that will provide the QB of the future.....A future coaching staff that will be dynamic and intelligent.....and basically the glass as half full. Hey....I could be totally wrong on all counts....but I don't know how things are going to pan out....and I know that none of you know how things are going to pan out. Until proven otherwise I will be excited about my Bills in a manner not seen since Kelly retired. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The Bills don't have any real talent. C.J. Spiller is a nice player, but he proved in the game at Miami at the end of the year that he can't win games on his own. Stevie Johnson is a serviceable receiver, but his statistics are a bit inflated because the Bills throw the ball a ton and they don't have any other receivers. The offenisive line isn't terrible, but if a team doesn't abandon the pass rush like Seattle didn't, Fitpatrick is toast. Stepfon Gilmore got smoked most of the season and his pass interference call on Reggie Wayne sealed the Colts game for Indianapolis. This team has a lot of rebuilding to do. Keep living in the dark... Bilks were one of the most run heavy teams in the NFL this year and it has been discussed in length in other threads... More than two dozen coaches disagree with you, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Quarterback can make up for your short comings in a lot of places - but as is DE - average over all, Mario year two I've got to assume will be tremendous although he didnt have a bad year especially after the surgery but not the consistent disruptive force he needs to be...Kyle Moore stepped up to contribute but seems to have trouble turing running plays inside, I would also keep Merriman but a chance a good DE might be a nice addition, Kelsay probably out. DT- above average - Kyle Williams plays hurt and is still our best player, just a dependable playmaker. The addition of Carrington inside I think he's found a spot to thrive at, Dareus needs a bounce back season but it's not from lack of talent LB's- well below average- When Nick Barnett was in Green Bay his calling card was running plays down from the back side he cant do it anymore, he was also descent in pass coverage that has left him to - still a good hitter but not a good tackler. Bradham I like this guy is a keeper. Sheppard is the real question do you hold onto and wait or cut him loose, good athlete good size bad linebacker- seems to have poor instincts. The fact we had to play Scott at LB really showed we have no LB's. CB- below average Gilmore is a shutdown corner literally gets better every game the rest of the corners are average on their best days, Williams needs to move to safety and play for Wilson and I believe the will make that change S- below average Byrd is a tremendous player, but his fellow safeties are not Wilson-Scott-Searcy all below average. Searcy atleast has youth on his side QB -average - we are asklng Fitz to make up for all our other shortcomings and he's not that type of player RB- above averge - Spiller is a stud and Fred is a great player -wish Fred had some trade value WR- below average- Stevie is a special players although he needs to come back to the ball but the rest are borderline NFL players where is the mismatch in our 3 wide or 5 wide formations against anyone ? Graham we'll give a pass to in his rookie season, a lot of good wide outs struggle their first year, Brad Smith, Donald Jones, Ruvell Martin - not wide receivers or NFL caliber TE- average - For a minute you think Chandler is above average but when you look around the league at other tight ends he's not there. To inconsistent, too many drops doesn't get open or use his size to his advantage, never bodies a guy off. T -average Glenn has a chance to be one of the best in the league, the other side is a revolving door of Hairston, Pears, Young = dime a dozen G- above average- Urbik is the best mauler we have he's big strong and usually does his job, LeVitre is a good player but not great infact I think he's below Urbik C- average - Wood I thought was on his way to another level, but this year he slid some, did not have a good year although him bouncing back wouldn't suprise me. How much of the defensive problems were scheme, and especially run fits, Wannstadt didnt suddenly forget how to coach. DId we not run the best scheme for our talent ? We called for more blitzes - with who ? They rarely got home when called. Good Linebackers would make this defense look great Offensively Gailey never used his best player enough, leaving the field on 3rd and 2 - no explanation. I truly think he believes the o-line can not line up man on man and win so it's best to run Spiller out of the spread. I can't say he's wrong, just he didnt let him do it enough. As stated our 3-4-5 wide out sets do not favor us ever. Maybe it was not having Nelson, maybe it was Fred not healthy things just didnt click. The offensive line is talented and young everywhere I think the new coach will build around it. Over all - no we do not have enough talent to be any better than 7-9 or 8-8 this season 9-7 if EVERYTHING goes right ---just one guys opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Bills have more talent top to bttom.than Colts by a large margin...now we know just how important a QB is to the success of a team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibranHamdansGhost Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I insist that the Bills lack talent. The only legitimate win this year was the one over Kansas City. The Arizona kicker missed a chip shot after making a 62 yarder. Jacksonville lost in a monsoon without their best player. The Cleveland receivers must have dropped ten balls, even after Spiller got hurt. McKelvin's kickoff return for a touchdown was the only touchdown scored in the Miami game at the Ralph. By the end of the season, Tony Sporano was a lame duck offensive coordinator for the Jets and they were without Santonio Holmes and Darrelle Revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 At what point do we start looking at Williams and Dareus when the Bills get run on? I think they flash above average, but don't play at a high level consistently. A new coach has to help there. Good analysis' above. Agree with much has been said. I love the San Diego 2003/04 comparison, except they had 2 franchise QBs I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I insist that the Bills lack talent. The only legitimate win this year was the one over Kansas City. The Arizona kicker missed a chip shot after making a 62 yarder. Jacksonville lost in a monsoon without their best player. The Cleveland receivers must have dropped ten balls, even after Spiller got hurt. McKelvin's kickoff return for a touchdown was the only touchdown scored in the Miami game at the Ralph. By the end of the season, Tony Sporano was a lame duck offensive coordinator for the Jets and they were without Santonio Holmes and Darrelle Revis. Right, because all other teams played 100% to their potential in every other game except against the Bills...go watch more football, you seem to be clueless and need to gain understanding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I insist that the Bills lack talent. The only legitimate win this year was the one over Kansas City. The Arizona kicker missed a chip shot after making a 62 yarder. Jacksonville lost in a monsoon without their best player. The Cleveland receivers must have dropped ten balls, even after Spiller got hurt. McKelvin's kickoff return for a touchdown was the only touchdown scored in the Miami game at the Ralph. By the end of the season, Tony Sporano was a lame duck offensive coordinator for the Jets and they were without Santonio Holmes and Darrelle Revis. Insist all you want. All you showed was that the Bills lacked the ability to win.....the reasons for which are debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Bills have more talent top to bttom.than Colts by a large margin...now we know just how important a QB is to the success of a team... Except for QB, WR, TE, DE, LB, and K, I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Except for QB, WR, TE, DE, LB, and K, I agree with you. So you're saying that the 6-10 Bills have more talent than the 11-5 colts at RB, OT, OG, C, DT, CB, S, P, KR & PR? .....are their DEs better than ours? Freeney is a LB now. Seems to me that matter2003 might have had a decent point about the importance of QB. Edited January 8, 2013 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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