birdog1960 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 the morality issue is where we differ. i believe politics and morals are tightly linked. so did many of the great political philosophers like plato and aristotle. they spent many pages attempting to define "good". others believed the converse eg "beyond good and evil" yet morality was still part of the discussion. at any rate, introducing morality and introducing crudeness are two very different things. "when in rome" i suppose. just seems so many of the romans are cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 African Americans and Hispanics came out in greater numbers than in 2008. Explain that. Because African Americans, and other minorities, account for the largest number of people who get "free" stuff from the government, and they were scared witless that if Obama didn't get re-elected, they'd lose the free stuff. There were plenty of black conservatives trying to help, but we both know how that works out. Porch monkeys. Uncle Toms. Oreos. Takers outnumber wagon-pullers. Takers win. Just that simple. My advice is my action: time to stop pulling the wagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) did the conservative media, the campaign, and the candidate influence those minorities, and in some cases reflect those stereotypes a wee bit? Examples? I'm gonna preface this by saying, IMO, the stereotypes of conservatives are not limited to racism, but include hard stances on immigration, abortion, gay marriage, helping the poor (via gov't programs), education, etc. Rush Limbaugh, commenting on a black student beating up a white student on a school bus: “I think the guy’s wrong. I think not only it was racism, it was justifiable racism. I mean, that’s the lesson we’re being taught here today. Kid shouldn’t have been on the bus anyway. We need segregated buses — it was invading space and stuff. This is Obama’s America.” Glen Beck: “America’s border crisis. Rape, drugs, kidnapping, even murder. It is beginning to look a lot more like a border war…. Every single illegal immigrant is guilty of a crime, every single one…. Every undocumented worker is an illegal immigrant, a criminal and a drain on our dwindling resources.” The Romney Campaign after he told Dick Gregory that one of the goals of his healthcare plan is to make sure that those with preexisting conditions can get coverage: “Governor Romney will ensure that discrimination against individuals with preexisting conditions who maintain continuous coverage is prohibited.” Mitt Romney, on a host of subjects: "I'm not concerned about the very poor." "Go home and call 211." - to a Louisiana woman whose home was destroyed by Hurricane Isaac “We don't have people that become ill, who die in their apartment because they don't have insurance.” “Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less." "My dad, as you probably know, was the governor of Michigan and was the head of a car company. But he was born in Mexico... and had he been born of, uh, Mexican parents, I'd have a better shot at winning this. … It would be helpful to be Latino” “Don’t try to stop the foreclosure process. Let it run its course and hit the bottom.” rather than pick apart these quotes, please remember it's all about perceptions... Edited November 13, 2012 by In-A-Gadda-Levitre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 rather that pick apart these quotes, please remember it's all about perceptions how the media picks them apart... fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 fixed all it takes is for them to be repeated, especially in writing. but go on and think that this isn't an area that repubs need to change. we liberals are counting on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I'm gonna preface this by saying, IMO, the stereotypes of conservatives are not limited to racism, but include hard stances on immigration, abortion, gay marriage, helping the poor (via gov't programs), education, etc. Rush Limbaugh, commenting on a black student beating up a white student on a school bus: “I think the guy’s wrong. I think not only it was racism, it was justifiable racism. I mean, that’s the lesson we’re being taught here today. Kid shouldn’t have been on the bus anyway. We need segregated buses — it was invading space and stuff. This is Obama’s America.” Glen Beck: “America’s border crisis. Rape, drugs, kidnapping, even murder. It is beginning to look a lot more like a border war…. Every single illegal immigrant is guilty of a crime, every single one…. Every undocumented worker is an illegal immigrant, a criminal and a drain on our dwindling resources.” The Romney Campaign after he told Dick Gregory that one of the goals of his healthcare plan is to make sure that those with preexisting conditions can get coverage: “Governor Romney will ensure that discrimination against individuals with preexisting conditions who maintain continuous coverage is prohibited.” Mitt Romney, on a host of subjects: "I'm not concerned about the very poor." "Go home and call 211." - to a Louisiana woman whose home was destroyed by Hurricane Isaac “We don't have people that become ill, who die in their apartment because they don't have insurance.” “Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less." "My dad, as you probably know, was the governor of Michigan and was the head of a car company. But he was born in Mexico... and had he been born of, uh, Mexican parents, I'd have a better shot at winning this. … It would be helpful to be Latino” “Don’t try to stop the foreclosure process. Let it run its course and hit the bottom.” rather than pick apart these quotes, please remember it's all about perceptions... Boy, you sure know how to take things out of context. Why don't you provide some links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I'm gonna preface this by saying, IMO, the stereotypes of conservatives are not limited to racism, but include hard stances on immigration, abortion, gay marriage, helping the poor (via gov't programs), education, etc. Rush Limbaugh, commenting on a black student beating up a white student on a school bus: “I think the guy’s wrong. I think not only it was racism, it was justifiable racism. I mean, that’s the lesson we’re being taught here today. Kid shouldn’t have been on the bus anyway. We need segregated buses — it was invading space and stuff. This is Obama’s America.” Glen Beck: “America’s border crisis. Rape, drugs, kidnapping, even murder. It is beginning to look a lot more like a border war…. Every single illegal immigrant is guilty of a crime, every single one…. Every undocumented worker is an illegal immigrant, a criminal and a drain on our dwindling resources.” The Romney Campaign after he told Dick Gregory that one of the goals of his healthcare plan is to make sure that those with preexisting conditions can get coverage: “Governor Romney will ensure that discrimination against individuals with preexisting conditions who maintain continuous coverage is prohibited.” Mitt Romney, on a host of subjects: "I'm not concerned about the very poor." "Go home and call 211." - to a Louisiana woman whose home was destroyed by Hurricane Isaac “We don't have people that become ill, who die in their apartment because they don't have insurance.” “Middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less." "My dad, as you probably know, was the governor of Michigan and was the head of a car company. But he was born in Mexico... and had he been born of, uh, Mexican parents, I'd have a better shot at winning this. … It would be helpful to be Latino” “Don’t try to stop the foreclosure process. Let it run its course and hit the bottom.” rather than pick apart these quotes, please remember it's all about perceptions... Boy, you sure know how to take things out of context. Why don't you provide some links? Rush Beck Romney campaign Romney about very poor Romney about hurricane Romney about dying without insurance Romney about middle class income levels Romney about Mexican heritage Romney about foreclosure I know context should matter a lot, but consider "you didn't build that" It was all about context and the Romney campaign made it their mantra for the convention. This discussion is about how stereotypes and perceptions affected the outcome of the election, not whether Rush Limbaugh was actually ranting with dripping sarcasm. People interpret that stuff, with and without the MSM commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Rush Beck Romney campaign Romney about very poor Romney about hurricane Romney about dying without insurance Romney about middle class income levels Romney about Mexican heritage Romney about foreclosure I know context should matter a lot, but consider "you didn't build that" It was all about context and the Romney campaign made it their mantra for the convention. This discussion is about how stereotypes and perceptions affected the outcome of the election, not whether Rush Limbaugh was actually ranting with dripping sarcasm. People interpret that stuff, with and without the MSM commentary. The context was worse in the "you didn't build that" statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The context was worse in the "you didn't build that" statement. I think you and I are talking about different contexts. In my case, Obama was talking about government-funded research, infrastructure, and education that comprise our great country. That entrepreneurship, combined with government help makes the difference, not just individual initiative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I think you and I are talking about different contexts. In my case, Obama was talking about government-funded research, infrastructure, and education that comprise our great country. That entrepreneurship, combined with government help makes the difference, not just individual initiative. Certainly didn't sound that way now did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 This discussion is about how stereotypes and perceptions affected the outcome of the election, not whether Rush Limbaugh was actually ranting with dripping sarcasm. People interpret that stuff, with and without the MSM commentary. So basically, by accepting this, we can't have real discussion about issues anymore in this country. THAT, is why we are screwed. But I would disagree. MSM delivers the info to the public. The way they report it heavily influences how the info is received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Certainly didn't sound that way now did it? no, because the quote was taken out of context, and was very successful in energizing the republican base. I'm just saying just because something is taken out of context, don't discount the impact it can have on the electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 no, because the quote was taken out of context, and was very successful in energizing the republican base. I'm just saying just because something is taken out of context, don't discount the impact it can have on the electorate. Again, it wasn't taken out of context. I saw the whole speech and the Romney campaign ran a commercial playing the whole speech. Even at the end of the commercial, it was written, "it sounds even worse in context" so enough with that now will you? If you'd like to interpret Obama's whole speech differently, that's your choice but what I saw was someone who had complete disdain for the private sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 So basically, by accepting this, we can't have real discussion about issues anymore in this country. THAT, is why we are screwed. But I would disagree. MSM delivers the info to the public. The way they report it heavily influences how the info is received. I never said or inferred that we can't have a discussion about anything. My point was you can't blame it all on the media, these were actual quotes and they had an negative effect on voters. If you believe that it's all the fault of the MSM for reporting it in a biased way, you'll never be able to reach minorities, young people or women to vote your way. The message and policies (and perhaps the messengers) have to change. Don't give the biased liberal media ammo to use against you, or at least give them less of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) I never said or inferred that we can't have a discussion about anything. My point was you can't blame it all on the media, these were actual quotes and they had an negative effect on voters. If you believe that it's all the fault of the MSM for reporting it in a biased way, you'll never be able to reach minorities, young people or women to vote your way. The message and policies (and perhaps the messengers) have to change. Don't give the biased liberal media ammo to use against you, or at least give them less of it. Lets take the example of Romney's definition of middle income. It is the same as Obama's, yet he gets torn apart. Don't take my word for it, this article came from the HUFFINGTON POST of all places. http://www.huffingto..._n_1891814.html Edited November 13, 2012 by sodbuster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Again, it wasn't taken out of context. I saw the whole speech and the Romney campaign ran a commercial playing the whole speech. Even at the end of the commercial, it was written, "it sounds even worse in context" so enough with that now will you? If you'd like to interpret Obama's whole speech differently, that's your choice but what I saw was someone who had complete disdain for the private sector. never saw that commercial, if you google "you didn't build that" and "it sounds even worse in context" there are zero hits. Every ad or conservative pundit I heard stopped at the "didn't build it" or glossed over the context. So maybe there was such an ad, but I'm betting that most took "you didn't build that" on it's own. Not that it matters all that much, but that particular speech, from the beginning of "You didn’t get there on your own" to "You’re not on your own, we’re in this together." took close to 1:45. You're saying that whole thing was put into an ad? I have trouble with that, but I don't know what you watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Come In Peace Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Lower taxes across the board. Capping deductions to 50k. Lowering or removing taxes on investments/capital gains/ dividends to those.under.250k Effectively if the models were correct, this would generate roughly 3% growth and increase tax revenues. Are those the same models that showed Romney winning the election? Because if they are, you might need some new model guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juror#8 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) Because African Americans, and other minorities, account for the largest number of people who get "free" stuff from the government, and they were scared witless that if Obama didn't get re-elected, they'd lose the free stuff. There were plenty of black conservatives trying to help, but we both know how that works out. Porch monkeys. Uncle Toms. Oreos. Takers outnumber wagon-pullers. Takers win. Just that simple. My advice is my action: time to stop pulling the wagon. Figuring that someone (what a surprise, it's you) would make that specious argument, I added in there that little nugget about the Asian American vote. 73% of Asian Americans (the most wealthy and most educated demographic group in the country) voted for Obama. In 1992, 62% of Asian Americans voted for George H.W. Bush. Hmmmmmm..... Asian Americans comprised 2.4% of the electorate in 2008. They comprised 3.9% of the electorate in 2012. Hmmmmm...... If what I'm saying is not correct, and there isn't a collective dissatisfaction amongst minorites with what is perceived to be GOP efforts to marginalize, trivialize, and disenfranchise - how do you explain the Asian American vote? Their story isn't reconcilable with your stereotype oops....thesis. What I said about Trump, Coulter, Limbaugh, You, Sununu, etc is the reason. If it's not fixed, and your vision governs the direction of the party, there will be a worse reckoning in 2016...because the minority population is growing faster than the extant majority. Hang out with some black folks outside of LA and get a clue. Edited November 13, 2012 by Juror#8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Are those the same models that showed Romney winning the election? Because if they are, you might need some new model guys. Which models did Obama use to forecast he'd cut the deficit by half before the end of his first term? So yeah, he's a great campaigner but let's see how the country is doing in 2016. never saw that commercial, if you google "you didn't build that" and "it sounds even worse in context" there are zero hits. Every ad or conservative pundit I heard stopped at the "didn't build it" or glossed over the context. So maybe there was such an ad, but I'm betting that most took "you didn't build that" on it's own. Can't find the ad but once again, I'm not a conservative pundit, I'm not even American. I am simply telling you how I see it since you know, I think for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Hang out with some black folks outside of LA and get a clue. Impossible. What LA and Doc don't want to talk about is the fact that the majority of "takers" are white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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