Kiwi Bills fan Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I may go for this when CJ quits running out of bounds to avoid tackles. I'm calling BS on this. Sure he may have run out of bounds after it was inevitable that he couldn't get any more yards (saving his body from unnecessary injuries), however I've seen him give his tacklers an extra "pop", right at the point of contact many times. I've even mentioned to my wife on numerous occasions that he would rather hit the tackler before the tackler hits him. Spiller is the best player that the Bills have had for a long long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Ex Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I don't see why they don't do what the Giants did with Jacobs and Bradshaw? CJ starting and Fred being a 3rd down or short yardage RB...is Chan that stupid that he hasn't figured that out yet that this is the best way to use the 2 backs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 This discussion brings to mind 3 things: 1) I've heard opinions about why Mark Anderson is less effective this year than he was last year as a situational player. Just today, Jaguars Head Coach Mike Mularkey said that DE Jeremy Mincey is less effective the more he plays. Mincey had 8 sacks last year as a part time player, zero this year as a starter. As has been mentioned here before, there's something called "The Law of Diminishing Returns." The diminishing returns could take the form of another injury (don't forget the shoulder injury Spiller suffered a few weeks ago) or it could take the form of decreased yards per carry, or fumbles. 2) Fred Jackson is still not 100% I believe he's still playing with a brace on his knee and it's obvious that he's not yet back to 100%. That said, he did great grunt work in the last game (aside from his fumble), getting tough yards, catching the ball, and doing his usual great job in pass protection. 3) I think the issue here is the balance/ratio of touches. Currently Spiller has 60 carries and 13 receptions for 73 touches. Freddy has 44 carries and 9 receptions for 53 touches. So currently Spiller has gotten 53% of the work while Freddy has gotten 47% I could see an argument for Spiller getting 2-3 more touches each game (resulting in 2-3 touches fewer for Freddy) but not much more than that. IMO, Freddy is gonna improve as the season goes on and also, I think some of Spiller's effectiveness is because he's not overworked and because he's a good contrast in style from Freddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaccof Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Is there a play here to trade one of them for a starting QB? Haven't really thought it out, but seems like the Bills are flush with RB's and not so flush with a starting QB that can bring the team to the next level.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Is there a play here to trade one of them for a starting QB? Haven't really thought it out, but seems like the Bills are flush with RB's and not so flush with a starting QB that can bring the team to the next level.... If the Bills traded away one of their running backs, they'd immediately be thin at the position, IMO. New Orleans has Pierre Thomas, Mark Ingram, Chris Ivory, and Darren Sproles. That team is flush at running back. Carolina has Jonathan Stewart, DeAngelo Williams, and Mike Tolbert. I'm not against trading a RB (it would have to be Freddy most likely) for a QB but I'm not sure what caliber of QB we'd get in return for a running back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Having Fred as the starter keeps Spiller fresh and explosive. I dont agree with Chan on a lot, but splitting the workload between the two backs is one of the best things he's done. There's a reason CJ is averaging over 7 yards per carry. Fred wears teams down and while they have their hands on their hips trying to catch their breath, CJ comes in a breaks off a big one with his explosive speed. Splitting the carries is working perfectly, we just need to run the ball more. Keeping Spiller on the sidelines is the only reason why the Bills have the other teams hanging in the game. If spiller is let loose, the game is over by the 3rd quarter. I am not saying that Jackson is not important. For example, if Jackson takes that hand off at the Patriots 5 yard line instead of Spiller, we are looking at a 21 point cushion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'm calling BS on this. Sure he may have run out of bounds after it was inevitable that he couldn't get any more yards (saving his body from unnecessary injuries), however I've seen him give his tacklers an extra "pop", right at the point of contact many times. I've even mentioned to my wife on numerous occasions that he would rather hit the tackler before the tackler hits him. Spiller is the best player that the Bills have had for a long long time. Review the 4th quarter AZ game right after #85 took a penalty that put the Bills in a big hole. Spiller SHOT out of bounds on the next two plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Review the 4th quarter AZ game right after #85 took a penalty that put the Bills in a big hole. Spiller SHOT out of bounds on the next two plays. I guess this is the final word Spillers a bust lets trade him immediately. He has no heart and runs out of bounds. Haaaaaaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Nice little stats about Spiller. He is still averaging a ridiculous 7.55 yards per carry. At this pace, Spiller will end up with approximately 1200 rushing yards, 400 receiving yards, and 13 touchdowns, playing half the game, and getting seriously hurt, with no appreciable passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 Nice little stats about Spiller. He is still averaging a ridiculous 7.55 yards per carry. At this pace, Spiller will end up with approximately 1200 rushing yards, 400 receiving yards, and 13 touchdowns, playing half the game, and getting seriously hurt, with no appreciable passing game. His stats are even more impressive considering the fact that Glenn and Urbik have been out last 2 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Spiller is only averaging 10 carries a game. This is idiotic, in my opinion. Run > Pass C'mon Chan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffmonster Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 We need both backs, but Spiller needs more touches. I want to see last weeks numbers flip flopped in Spiller's favor. Spiller 12 runs, 4 pass Jackson 16 runs, 5 pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I guess this is the final word Spillers a bust lets trade him immediately. He has no heart and runs out of bounds. Haaaaaaa. Did I ever say that? No. This is more my answer to the sudden Spiller is a God, sure fire HOF, miracle the Bills got him. What gets on my nerves is CJ has a couple good games and now we can dump Fred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I guess I'm the small minority here, but I think FJ should still be the starter and get the bulk of the carries. Seeing what FJ did last year before he got hurt...I haven't seen a guy blend talent and desire like that in a Bills uniform in a very long time. I think once he gets back to being healthy, he'll get back to that level. I love what CJ brings to the table but I just don't think he can keep up this pace. He will get stopped for losses on runs where FJ will grind out 3 yards. Give me a guy who will get the tough yards in 3, 4, 5, 6 yard chunks over a guy who will have 1, 2 yard runs with the odd 20 yarder thrown in there. And even though FJ has fumbled twice recently, I don't necessarily trust the way CJ carries the ball. Maybe its because he's smaller, but I'm always worried he might fumble. Will sound crazy to the "what games are you watching?" crowd, but I think CJ should be the change of pace back, not Freddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The whole "starter" discussion is immaterial, IMO. It's a ceremonial position. Freddy is a highly-respected team leader and an older vet. He should start. It's not like he sucks and starting the game hurts the Bills. The real issue is the ratio of touches. As I pointed out upthread, Spiller is getting 53% to 47% of touches between the two of them. Probably that number could be tweaked a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Spiller: "I’m always keeping an eye on him and making sure that he’s good. Sunday when I had the big run going towards the end zone, I came out and let Fred go in. He was able to punch it in. It’s all about just keeping an eye on each other. I thought I was in a good groove Sunday. We know that there’s only one football. You’re not going to get as many (touches) as you want. Would you want to? Yeah. But at the end of the day, you’re not because there’s only one and we have a lot of playmakers on this team. It’s a good thing to have. I’m glad that we have that problem.” http://wgr550.com/two-bills-drive/14558391 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelstephon Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 CJ is good, really good...but splitting carries will save him from getting beaten up, he WILL be the starter next year, no point beating him up when we won't win the super bowl this year anyway...make him the starter next when i hope this teams can make a run.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 CJ is good, really good...but splitting carries will save him from getting beaten up, he WILL be the starter next year, no point beating him up when we won't win the super bowl this year anyway...make him the starter next when i hope this teams can make a run.. I don't agree If he is good enought to start next yr why not this year? C.J. is our best option on offense right now and you want to save him for next yr. If your best player is not on the field as much as possible you are hurting your team. 68 percent agree with me. That why I started this poll. Thought this would be the case . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandemonium Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Keeping Spiller on the sidelines is the only reason why the Bills have the other teams hanging in the game. If spiller is let loose, the game is over by the 3rd quarter. I am not saying that Jackson is not important. For example, if Jackson takes that hand off at the Patriots 5 yard line instead of Spiller, we are looking at a 21 point cushion. I'm not so sure this is the case. Fred has fumbled more than cj this year, on less carries. Edit: I forgot that spiller also fumbled a pass, but they still have the same amount of fumbles with Fred getting less touches. My point remains that Fred isn't any less prone to fumbling this season than cj is. Edited October 19, 2012 by Chandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 This discussion brings to mind 3 things: 1) I've heard opinions about why Mark Anderson is less effective this year than he was last year as a situational player. Just today, Jaguars Head Coach Mike Mularkey said that DE Jeremy Mincey is less effective the more he plays. Mincey had 8 sacks last year as a part time player, zero this year as a starter. As has been mentioned here before, there's something called "The Law of Diminishing Returns." The diminishing returns could take the form of another injury (don't forget the shoulder injury Spiller suffered a few weeks ago) or it could take the form of decreased yards per carry, or fumbles. 2) Fred Jackson is still not 100% I believe he's still playing with a brace on his knee and it's obvious that he's not yet back to 100%. That said, he did great grunt work in the last game (aside from his fumble), getting tough yards, catching the ball, and doing his usual great job in pass protection. 3) I think the issue here is the balance/ratio of touches. Currently Spiller has 60 carries and 13 receptions for 73 touches. Freddy has 44 carries and 9 receptions for 53 touches. So currently Spiller has gotten 53% of the work while Freddy has gotten 47% I could see an argument for Spiller getting 2-3 more touches each game (resulting in 2-3 touches fewer for Freddy) but not much more than that. IMO, Freddy is gonna improve as the season goes on and also, I think some of Spiller's effectiveness is because he's not overworked and because he's a good contrast in style from Freddy. I agree with this except for the last sentence. CJ Spiller like most runningbacks the more they touch the ball the more effective they are. The thing about runningbacks is you don't hide them. You especially don't hide their ability for the sake of "staying fresh". Spiller has rare talent that you just don't see in players. He's not only a game changer, he can very well be one of the best players in the NFL. It's no fluke that since he took over the job after Fred Ex got hurt last year till now that only Calvin Johnson, Ray Rice, and MJD have more total yards from scrimmage. Spiller is that great. This is not meant to be a slight at Fred. Fred in his own right is a #1 rb when healthy. Watching the Bills though I think it kind of hurts both of them to be used in tandem. It hurts the tempo of the offense, and slows them down. Spiller in this formula will come up with the bigger plays because of his raw talent. Where as Fred is that grinder who needs 25-30 carries a game but can get you 130-140 yards rushing and be the cog in the wheel. It was also no fluke that Jackson before he got hurt last year accounted for over 40% of the Bills offense and was the leading rusher in the league. If they can find a way to make it work as the season goes along awesome that's what we all want, but given the choice between a 30 year old very good when healthy runningback or the 25 year old Spiller who has all world potential. I'm going with Spiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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