What's wrong with the GOP?

[Rob's House]

And this will all lead to a better society simply because government will be doing less, or was there some sort of massive economic benefit from doing this?

In short, resources will be more efficiently allocated, it will be easier and less costly to do business, competition will flourish both internally due to lack of protectionist (for big corporations) regulations, and competition will flourish internationally because the U.S. will become a more attractive place (less costly relative to alternatives) to do business. It will also force people to produce to recieve, and it will allow inefficient business to be driven out by it's more efficient competitors. This is a VERY brief explanation. To explain in full would take many many pages.

[DC Tom]

And this will all lead to a better society simply because government will be doing less, or was there some sort of massive economic benefit from doing this?

 

It'll make people responsible for themselves.

[3rdnlng]

Rob, I agree with you but you have missed the wonderful opportunity we have to become the world's energy supplier. With our resources we could solve our dependence upon the shithole of the world, make them irrelevent and boost manufacturing here with low cost energy. We can wisely set policies that will insure cheap energy here and help to eliminate our deficit.

[Duck_dodgers007]

 

In short, resources will be more efficiently allocated, it will be easier and less costly to do business, competition will flourish both internally due to lack of protectionist (for big corporations) regulations, and competition will flourish internationally because the U.S. will become a more attractive place (less costly relative to alternatives) to do business. It will also force people to produce to recieve, and it will allow inefficient business to be driven out by it's more efficient competitors. This is a VERY brief explanation. To explain in full would take many many pages.

No offense, but this is pretty simplistic. Taxes are hardly the only thing that drives the economy. It also sounds like you want to turn us into a cheap labor country? Think about how much money our government now takes from the wealthy and spends on the middle class enitlement programs. Are you saying that this can stop and the people will be better off than they are now? Just to be clear, you think the wealthy, who pay most of the taxes, are way over taxed, and they will keep lots more of their money, right?

 

And what about small businesses? If the middle class no longer has the same wealth they do now in a very low tax regime, where will the customers come from?

 

Rob, I agree with you but you have missed the wonderful opportunity we have to become the world's energy supplier. With our resources we could solve our dependence upon the shithole of the world, make them irrelevent and boost manufacturing here with low cost energy. We can wisely set policies that will insure cheap energy here and help to eliminate our deficit.

Energy production has soared under Obama, we can't use all the natural gas we are drilling until we convert more factories, power plants and hopefully trucks over to it.

[DC Tom]

No offense, but this is pretty simplistic. Taxes are hardly the only thing that drives the economy. It also sounds like you want to turn us into a cheap labor country? Think about how much money our government now takes from the wealthy and spends on the middle class enitlement programs. Are you saying that this can stop and the people will be better off than they are now? Just to be clear, you think the wealthy, who pay most of the taxes, are way over taxed, and they will keep lots more of their money, right?

 

And what about small businesses? If the middle class no longer has the same wealth they do now in a very low tax regime, where will the customers come from?

 

Oh, holy Christ. Seriously?

[Rob's House]

Rob, I agree with you but you have missed the wonderful opportunity we have to become the world's energy supplier. With our resources we could solve our dependence upon the shithole of the world, make them irrelevent and boost manufacturing here with low cost energy. We can wisely set policies that will insure cheap energy here and help to eliminate our deficit.

Yeah, I didn't even think of that. God knows how much we waste with our absurd energy policies.

[Duck_dodgers007]

 

 

It'll make people responsible for themselves.

 

There have always been poor, the government didn't create them. The government has made poverty less cruel and mean, but it hasn't eliminated, to be sure.

[DC Tom]

There have always been poor, the government didn't create them. The government has made poverty less cruel and mean, but it hasn't eliminated, to be sure.

 

Because I, for one, have always worried about the lack of a kinder, gentler poverty.

[Duck_dodgers007]

 

 

Because I, for one, have always worried about the lack of a kinder, gentler poverty.

 

They are poor, they should be miserable!

[3rdnlng]

No offense, but this is pretty simplistic. Taxes are hardly the only thing that drives the economy. It also sounds like you want to turn us into a cheap labor country? Think about how much money our government now takes from the wealthy and spends on the middle class enitlement programs. Are you saying that this can stop and the people will be better off than they are now? Just to be clear, you think the wealthy, who pay most of the taxes, are way over taxed, and they will keep lots more of their money, right?

 

And what about small businesses? If the middle class no longer has the same wealth they do now in a very low tax regime, where will the customers come from?

 

Energy production has soared under Obama, we can't use all the natural gas we are drilling until we convert more factories, power plants and hopefully trucks over to it.

 

OK dipschit, energy production has soared under Obama even though he hasn't had a damn thing to do with it. The energy production is on private land. Leases on federal land have gone down considerably since Obama took office. Don't forget your fallback position though---"but, but, but It'll take ten years to bring new oil to market". Now, what's the O's plan to encourage conversion to natural gas or is it just more subsidies to companies like Solyndra, owned by his contributers.

[DC Tom]

They are poor, they should be miserable!

 

You're an idiot. And you don't even realize why: pretending the government can make life easy is even dumber than pretending it can legislate away poverty. And legislating away poverty is one of the dumbest ideas any poli sci major ever came up with.

[Duck_dodgers007]

 

 

You're an idiot. And you don't even realize why: pretending the government can make life easy is even dumber than pretending it can legislate away poverty. And legislating away poverty is one of the dumbest ideas any poli sci major ever came up with.

 

Oh come on, if Robs program of massive tax reductions for the wealthy was made into law, a lot of middle class people would be thrown into poverty. High taxes on the wealthy have reduced poverty. That's a success. as is health care for the poor and elderly, social security, veterans programs and veterans health care, not to mention all the jobs created by other government spending.

 

Woo hoo, big government is a positive good

[Rob's House]

They are poor, they should be miserable!

Let's be honest. Nobody's campaigning on what they'll do for the poor. They're all campaigning on what they'll do for the middle class. And the middle class gets better off when business is booming and jobs are plentiful. You're not going to get that from a government program.

[DC Tom]

Oh come on, if Robs program of massive tax reductions for the wealthy was made into law, a lot of middle class people would be thrown into poverty. High taxes on the wealthy have reduced poverty. That's a success. as is health care for the poor and elderly, social security, veterans programs and veterans health care, not to mention all the jobs created by other government spending.

 

Woo hoo, big government is a positive good

 

You cannot objectively defend any statement you just made.

 

I'm actually trying to for you...and the numbers simply don't add up that way.

[Duck_dodgers007]

 

 

You cannot objectively defend any statement you just made.

 

I'm actually trying to for you...and the numbers simply don't add up that way.

 

That tax money taken from the wealthy doesn't create jobs, you disagree? Why?

 

 

Let's be honest. Nobody's campaigning on what they'll do for the poor. They're all campaigning on what they'll do for the middle class. And the middle class gets better off when business is booming and jobs are plentiful. You're not going to get that from a government program.

Actually the most of the jobs lost since Bush have been government jobs

[Rob's House]

That tax money taken from the wealthy doesn't create jobs, you disagree? Why?

 

Actually the most of the jobs lost since Bush have been government jobs

We've been over this, Dave. Taking tax money from the wealthy and creating meaningless government jobs is no different from sending those people welfare checks. Every dollar the government spends is money taken out of the economy. And while some federal government programs do add value, the overwhelming majority of money that flows through government is essentially wasted. All of that money represents resources siphoned out of the economy. There's no way around it.

 

Can you explain your theory about how taxing BUSINESS (I never said the rich; plus you guys advocate raising taxes on income, not wealth) creates jobs? (and by jobs I mean productive jobs that create value proportionate to their cost)

[OCinBuffalo]

Things that are wrong with the GOP(and, this is not with EVERY person in the GOP...just the problem children):

 

1. Abortion nonsense. The courts have determined the difference between murder and manslaughter. There's no reason why they can't do the same here. Ice picking babies in the neck is disgusting, and MUST be illegal. We need some sort of biological standard applied(~3 months, etc), and be done with this. Rape, incest, health of the mother = exceptions...that should be exercised ONLY after options to adopt are offered. Think about it: would the adopting parents care how the baby got created? Nope. But with all of this, it's a personal decision...and the people involved have to accept the consequences of it. It's nobody else's business, provided we have sound laws in place, and they are being followed.

 

2. Unwillingness to focus on the military in terms of winning wars...and not just defense contracts for constituents = campaign contributions. We can cut lots of stuff. But too often we are giving the Navy destroyers they didn't ask for, don't want, and they don't want to have to put good sailors on bad boats, etc.

 

Hey clowns: that doesn't mean that we can cut and run from the responsibilities that ONLY the USA can perform....like what is happening with Syria...right now.

 

3. Choosing the political, and kitty's approach to immigration....rather than the practical, and strong approach. This doesn't mean give away the store. It does mean, have the process, but OWN the process. Instead, the GOP has people who are too dumb to figure out how to own a process that will work and/or they have people who are too chickenshit to go win votes among immigrants. If GOP ideas are better, then they are better. GOP candidates need to learn how to shoot these weapons, rather than complaining that they won't shoot by themselves. Example: I can't imagine why any immigrant would go through the hassle of coming here...just so they can end up dependent on the government. No. They come here because they want to improve their lives. Reasonable immigration policy, making a candidate lose an election, says more about the candidate than the policy.

 

4. Refusing to put forward a rational plan for gay marriage, that is respectful of tradition, but also makes sure there aren't any gaps in the rights of people who choose that lifestyle. Come now....it's not like the GOP isn't the best suited to determine how to do this properly. After all, the GOP are the ones actually concerned with how the families are doing. Again...OWN the process. Dictate the terms for how gay families will work. Hold gay parents to the same standards, and while we are at it make them high for ALL fathers and mothers. Nothing will fix so many of our problems faster than making the family, however constructed....work as well as it used to work. Should we make laws against the Brady Bunch, because they weren't married for life?

 

5. No all-out assault on single motherhood. The #s are clear on this. You are most likely to be arrested, drug addicted, stupid, uneducated, pregnant as a teen....if you come from a single mother family. If they want to get after something....forget porn...and get after this. Find a way to get these women sorted out. There has to be better ways than what we are doing. We can no longer accept "I have a right to raise my kids anyway I"...no B word, you don't, not when your kids are 80% more likely to be burden on society. You don't have to right to F the rest of us over. Chris Rock: "You can raise a kid on your own, so what? You can drive a car with your feet...it doesn't make it a good F'ing idea".

 

Of all the problems in the country...why isn't single motherhood the #1 target of the GOP? Every single program the GOP hates has single motherhood as a root cause...somewhere in it. Even if they were cynical about it, married women vote for the GOP 2/1.

 

6. For people that love free markets....they sure don't go out of their way to make sure those markets are free. Where is the GOP competition machine...when it comes to things like the Walmart/China revolving door? I am not arguing for protectionism...that is the mark of union foulness. No. I am saying: markets must be completely free. Unfortunately, far too many GOP elected people get far too much money from those who benefit from the rackets that is China/Defense/Insurance. The same can be said on defense, and other things. The answer isn't create a "Small Business has to be included in every bid law". No. The answer is: "Don't let the big guys use undue influence to create the project that requires the bid in the first place

 

Now, in response we have the Democrats benefiting from the rackets that are Wall Street/Unions/Green Nonsense/Shovel Ready...and Insurance(no competition across state lines = no competition for union-owned health insurance companies) . There's a lot of work to do in this area for everybody.

 

That's just off the top of my head.

 

Now....show me a liberal who has the intellectual capacity to be critical of the Democrats...and can actually back up those criticisms with fact, not emotional nonsense or anecdotal evidence....or more retarded socialism.

 

You rarely see that on this board.

Edited August 30, 2012 by OCinBuffalo

[DC Tom]

That tax money taken from the wealthy doesn't create jobs, you disagree? Why?

 

Let me repeat: You cannot objectively defend any statement you just made. I'm trying to for you (assuming you're statements are true, trying to demonstrate it) and can't. That's not "disagreement", that's me saying you're blowing smoke out of your ass.

 

I will point out, though, that raising the tax rate on the wealthy will adversely impact wealth and savings of the middle class. You really want to declare war on the middle class; double or triple the marginal tax rates on the top 2% of earners.

 

Actually the most of the jobs lost since Bush have been government jobs

 

State and local, in no small part as an adjustment from the bloated administration created with the glut of tax money from the housing bubble.

 

Can you explain your theory about how taxing BUSINESS (I never said the rich; plus you guys advocate raising taxes on income, not wealth) creates jobs? (and by jobs I mean productive jobs that create value proportionate to their cost)

 

That's such a great fallacy: wealth and income are the same thing. And we have people arguing (hell, setting) tax policy that don't know the difference.

 

Our country is doomed.

[Duck_dodgers007]

 

Let me repeat: You cannot objectively defend any statement you just made. I'm trying to for you (assuming you're statements are true, trying to demonstrate it) and can't. That's not "disagreement", that's me saying you're blowing smoke out of your ass.

I will point out, though, that raising the tax rate on the wealthy will adversely impact wealth and savings of the middle class. You really want to declare war on the middle class; double or triple the marginal tax rates on the top 2% of earners.

State and local, in no small part as an adjustment from the bloated administration created with the glut of tax money from the housing bubble.

That's such a great fallacy: wealth and income are the same thing. And we have people arguing (hell, setting) tax policy that don't know the difference.

 

Which statement should I defend?

 

Prove your point about taxes and the wealthy and hurting middle class

 

Sure, wealth and income not the same thing, but so what? What's your point?

 

 

 

 

State and local, in no small part as an adjustment from the bloated administration created with the glut of tax money from

 

 

But still lost jobs, jobs that paid salaries that supported small business and big, not to mention middle class families

[3rdnlng]

Which statement should I defend?

 

Prove your point about taxes and the wealthy and hurting middle class

 

Sure, wealth and income not the same thing, but so what? What's your point?

 

 

 

But still lost jobs, jobs that paid salaries that supported small business and big, not to mention middle class families

 

 

I see, because you know you can't stand with me on this issue, you've avoided anymore comments on energy independence. So, I assume you agree with my last post on this?