meazza Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Oh wow, why did I come back to this. It's like a giant echo chamber of conservative talking points. I'm assuming nobody watched the video where Romney says the exact same things as the President did? So what are you complaining about, the fact that it was taken out of context, even though he showed the whole !@#$ing speech or that Romney said the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 If Obama has just said "on your own" after his statement, this would've been all over with. Strike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 If Obama has just said "on your own" after his statement, this would've been all over with. It's so blown out of proportion. You Romney Bots have wanted to talk about real issues and policy forever and then you turn around and harp on things like this for weeks. Okay. No, it's still asinine. Providing public services that create an environment in which business can succeed is not the same as building a business. Never mind that, even if Obama's statement weren't ridiculously stupid, the business community is still the group that pays the taxes that create that environment to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Oh wow, why did I come back to this. It's like a giant echo chamber of conservative talking points. I'm assuming nobody watched the video where Romney says the exact same things as the President did? You have to appreciate the sublime ridiculousness of people who argue that Obama is being taken out of context, and then change their mind and argue that if what he said is so bad, then why is Romney saying the same thing...while taking the Romney comment completely out of context. Who's driving this car...Stevie Wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldTraveller Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 No, because he shows contempt for those business owners who claim to work harder than most other people. Of course you don't see that because you're a left-wing loon and it's natural that you will defend him. But like I said, it's not going away, this will stick with him all the way till November. Simply because it already fits into the narrative that Obama is a big government taxing Lib who doesn't understand the private sector. Oh, and : President Obama's approval rating dropped to 35% among business owners in the second quarter of 2012, according to a Gallup Daily tracking poll released today. "The data precede Obama's much-discussed July 13 comments that small-business owners have had help from others to achieve success," Gallup notes. "Thus it is not yet clear whether those comments have led to further deterioration in Obama's standing among small-business owners." http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/07/gallup-obamas-approval-rating-with-business-owners-drops/1#.UBGGzJH329s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjl2nd Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 No, it's still asinine. Providing public services that create an environment in which business can succeed is not the same as building a business. Never mind that, even if Obama's statement weren't ridiculously stupid, the business community is still the group that pays the taxes that create that environment to begin with. Agreed. The President was making a point how everything is intertwined in the economy. Government, yourself, other friends/family, investors, etc. The you didn't build that business comment came out bad. End of story. Who actually would say that government built your business?? (The President didn't say this, but you all infer it's what he meant.) I don't think anybody holds that view. It just doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldTraveller Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Agreed. The President was making a point how everything is intertwined in the economy. Government, yourself, other friends/family, investors, etc. The you didn't build that business comment came out bad. End of story. No, not end of story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 No, not end of story... Corporations are people. I like firing people. My wife owns several Cadillacs. Yes... Republicans are the ones who take **** out of context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjl2nd Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 No, because he shows contempt for those business owners who claim to work harder than most other people. Of course you don't see that because you're a left-wing loon and it's natural that you will defend him. But like I said, it's not going away, this will stick with him all the way till November. Simply because it already fits into the narrative that Obama is a big government taxing Lib who doesn't understand the private sector. Oh, and : President Obama's approval rating dropped to 35% among business owners in the second quarter of 2012, according to a Gallup Daily tracking poll released today. "The data precede Obama's much-discussed July 13 comments that small-business owners have had help from others to achieve success," Gallup notes. "Thus it is not yet clear whether those comments have led to further deterioration in Obama's standing among small-business owners." http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/07/gallup-obamas-approval-rating-with-business-owners-drops/1#.UBGGzJH329s It does fit into a "narrative". Of course, that narrative has no basis in reality. And maybe he does have contempt for those who claim they worked harder because they own a business. Frankly, I don't like when people just say "I worked hard" for this. A lot of things go into running a successful business - if working hard was the solution, a lot more people would have businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Agreed. The President was making a point how everything is intertwined in the economy. Government, yourself, other friends/family, investors, etc. The you didn't build that business comment came out bad. End of story. Who actually would say that government built your business?? (The President didn't say this, but you all infer it's what he meant.) I don't think anybody holds that view. It just doesn't make sense. Strike 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 It does fit into a "narrative". Of course, that narrative has no basis in reality. And maybe he does have contempt for those who claim they worked harder because they own a business. Frankly, I don't like when people just say "I worked hard" for this. A lot of things go into running a successful business - if working hard was the solution, a lot more people would have businesses. Keep digging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjl2nd Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) This argument is so pointless. It was probably had about 5 pages back in this thread. Romney is going to run with this until November. Go ahead. Obama is going with a new positive approach to the campaign it looks like and that's what wins elections. Instead of talking about BS, I'll start some threads where we can talk about actual policies and issues. More productive than this horseshit. Edited July 26, 2012 by fjl2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Agreed. The President was making a point how everything is intertwined in the economy. Government, yourself, other friends/family, investors, etc. The you didn't build that business comment came out bad. End of story. That's not the point he made. If that was the point he intended to make (likely), he didn't make it. He basically said that American society builds business, and disparaged the hard work of the people that do. Which is the key fallacy demonstrating the utter stupidity of his speech - other people are smart and work hard, therefore it must be something other than the brains and work of the business owner that builds a business...wait, I know! It's the environment in which the business exists! Yeah, if that were the case, then why don't all the other smart hard-working people you just mentioned have businesses, given that they're in the same environment? And as I mentioned before, it's a sadly common belief in children of the Civil Rights movement that success is due to the largess of the government (because let's face it honestly: in most cases minorities would still be discriminated against if the government weren't enforcing an equal environment). Many people of that environment (i.e. blacks) have pointed that out to me in the past six months or so. But it's also a fallacy, in that the government's role, even under the Civil Rights Act, is to provide equality of OPPORTUNITY, not outcome. Confusing the two, while very understandable, is no less idiotic for being understandable. It's entirely equivalent to saying that Ralph Wilson Stadium is responsible for scoring touchdowns, because that's the field on which Stevie Johnson goes into the end zone. The single quote is just a convenient hook. The actual context is SO much worse. Who actually would say that government built your business?? (The President didn't say this, but you all infer it's what he meant.) I don't think anybody holds that view. It just doesn't make sense. That was the context of the quote - the government's responsible, not the small business owner. What, you've gone from arguing that the quote's inaccurate out of context, to arguing that the context is inaccurate because of the quote.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldTraveller Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 It does fit into a "narrative". Of course, that narrative has no basis in reality. And maybe he does have contempt for those who claim they worked harder because they own a business. Frankly, I don't like when people just say "I worked hard" for this. A lot of things go into running a successful business - if working hard was the solution, a lot more people would have businesses. Ummm, yes it does. I don't care how many times you tell yourself that it doesn't have any basis in reality, hell tell it to your wife, tell it to your friends or anyone who is willing to listen to you, but the reality is that at least 2/3 of all US business owners disagree with you. And those are the facts... In regards to your second point, unfortunately the president has the same view as you, except there is one difference, he's trying to walk it back. If you really truly believe that working hard isn't THE main ingredient to having a successful business, then you are one naive clueless kid. As a matter of fact, if you put the two points that the president made light of, which is smarts and work ethic and you combine them, the odds of you having a successful business goes up exponentially. But, it's interesting to know that you and the president are offended by people that are happy to tell people how hard they had to work to earn what they have, which really is a shame, because it's a wonderful story to tell. It's a story of success, hard work and perseverance, and "frankly" I think it's something that people should be proud to tell. Instead of talking about BS, I'll start some threads where we can talk about actual policies and issues. More productive than this horseshit. Don't get frustrated little man, it's a long campaign, both candidates will have their ups and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 The President was making a point how everything is intertwined in the economy. Government, yourself, other friends/family, investors, etc. The you didn't build that business comment came out bad. End of story. There will come a day when stragglers like yourself will finally realize that the problem with Obama's comments was not really the whole "You didn't build that" thing. Stupid, yes, but people have come to expect Obama to say stupid things when he leaves the script. No, to most people...especially people who DID start their own company and maintain a payroll and contribute to their local economy, the bit that really shows just how unbelievably stupid this man is, is his condescending holier-than-thou routine: "I'm always struck by people who think 'Wow, it must be because I was just so smart.There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something, there are a whole bunch of hard working people out there." That's the money shot, Skippy. That is what has everyone suddenly seing him for what he is: an out-of-touch, leaderless clown. The sooner you realize just how embarrassing his comments really are IN CONTEXT, the sooner you'll understand why you're the only lib left trying to defend this stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Instead of talking about BS, I'll start some threads where we can talk about actual policies and issues. More productive than this horseshit. Hiring is stagnant, the economy is shaky...and you think the candidates' views and policies on small business aren't a real issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldTraveller Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 "I'm always struck by people who think 'Wow, it must be because I was just so smart.There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something, there are a whole bunch of hard working people out there." That's the money shot, Skippy. That is what has everyone suddenly seing him for what he is: an out-of-touch, leaderless clown. The sooner you realize just how embarrassing his comments really are IN CONTEXT, the sooner you'll understand why you're the only lib left trying to defend this stupidity. It's pretty damning when you read it, but when you hear him say it, you can genuinely see the contempt he has for business people who claim to work hard. This one isn't going away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 It's pretty damning when you read it, but when you hear him say it, you can genuinely see the contempt he has for business people who claim to work hard. This one isn't going away. "But you're taking the contempt out of context!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 In regards to your second point, unfortunately the president has the same view as you, except there is one difference, he's trying to walk it back. If you really truly believe that working hard isn't THE main ingredient to having a successful business, then you are one naive clueless kid. As a matter of fact, if you put the two points that the president made light of, which is smarts and work ethic and you combine them, the odds of you having a successful business goes up exponentially. It's common in younger people that they don't get the risk taking involved in actually starting a business. For example, I work in a bank and have thought of starting my own business but I'd obviously have to give up my benefits, job security and decrease my standard of living until I start making some good money (if ever). **** like that flights over the head of younger people because they see all the success but they don't see the failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldTraveller Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 "But you're taking the contempt out of context!" Here it is again: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/07/25/the_more_context_you_get_the_worse_it_sounds.html yeah, out of context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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