K-9 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I agree with this, but isnt above average speed important? Steve isnt slow but hes not fast. Reed was faster than stevie, w better hands and a better leaper and couldnt make the Hall. Heres three guys better than stevie right now- Manningham,Nicks,Cruz. Isnt the rookie in Cincinatti better? A better leaper and faster for sure. I just dont get the love affair for stevie, and saying how he "supported us" How is not signing an extention and waiting for a bigger contract supporting us? Stevies waiting for a payday like everyone else. We have now to bow down to him after bringing him up from nowhere, paying him over a million dollars and letting him be a starter on a pro nfl team? Allowing him to showcase skills that may have never been witnessed had it not been for the Bills? He owes us more than we owe him. Especially after showing disregard for the team with his showboating. Stevie will probably get worse after he lands a deal. Maybe, maybe not but why treat the guy like an allpro just for doing what most starters do on most team year in-year out? Has it been that long since we had decent offense that you all think stevie is jerry rice? Jerry Rice? Really? I'm not gonna get sucked into a totally arbitrary debate about the virtues of SJ as an NFL WR. Let's just see what the rest of the league thinks about him when he hits FA. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 When you show no faith to players who have supported you're organization time and time again, you end up being the Buffalo Bills. At some point we have to keep some type of foundation to build off of. I would hands down sign Stevie J, we need some continuity and stability somewhere and there's really not a viable reason not to re-sign him. Mario Williams is a hell of a player but I would rather have SJ. The problem is we have let talent go without replacement. Skill walks out the door but not in. You build a team around a qb and a pass rusher and to do otherwise is foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loserlovers Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Besides being an idiot your complete failure at English makes me wonder if you are in middle school. Way to debunk my post, usually idiots who get mad at the logic will remark on the puctuation, etc. This is not an official document,so who cares? If you can read, you should do just fine. Also what exactly is idiotic? which part isnt true? Go find some proof to your counter points (which you dont have) Mr. latin, or should I say "provem tuam pointus, idiotuus maximus" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsSD Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Others have already made the same points I would make so it would be redundant to repost them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The problem is we have let talent go without replacement. Skill walks out the door but not in. You build a team around a qb and a pass rusher and to do otherwise is foolish. Exactly, I definitely agree that a pass rusher is a vital part of any team. It's the most important part on the defense for sure. I just think with our current situation, there's no reason to lose out on a good receiver who knows the system and has chemistry with the offense to make room to see if another player will work out for us on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Exactly, I definitely agree that a pass rusher is a vital part of any team. It's the most important part on the defense for sure. I just think with our current situation, there's no reason to lose out on a good receiver who knows the system and has chemistry with the offense to make room to see if another player will work out for us on defense. Keep in mind that Mario Williams is an elite player. Its not really a question of seeing how he'd work out for us because we know what we are getting by having him on the team. With Kyle locked up long term and Dareus, Sheppard, Byrd, A.Williams and the 10th pick; if these players develop the way it looks like they will, we'd have a dominant defense for the next decade. Mario would be the leader and considering he is only 27, he'd be around for a long time to keep the core group together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Keep in mind that Mario Williams is an elite player. Its not really a question of seeing how he'd work out for us because we know what we are getting by having him on the team. With Kyle locked up long term and Dareus, Sheppard, Byrd, A.Williams and the 10th pick; if these players develop the way it looks like they will, we'd have a dominant defense for the next decade. Mario would be the leader and considering he is only 27, he'd be around for a long time to keep the core group together. Yea - with Mario it's a question of a dozen sacks or leading the league in sacks. It's not like he's a system or scheme guy at this point. He was moved to linebacker and had 5 sacks in 5 games last year. It's roughly on par with saying you shouldn't make a run at drew brees (who I know never sees FA but for the sake of discussion) because we need to resign Byrd as he's already learned the system. Mario is arguably the best player in the league at the most important position on his side of the ball. His contract might not end up being great value if bid up but on a purely Stevie vs Mario, it's absolutely silly to give a second thought to stevie who is middle of the road at a far less important position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 SJ is uniquely talented at getting open off the line, a key to chans offense. He clicks with fitz, he plays hurt, even the stupid end zone antics don't piss off his teammates meaning he must not be a locker room diva, he wants to play for the bills.... Why on earth are so many so happy to let him walk? Who was the last buffalo wr to rank among the top 40 wr's in production? If being the best among some scrubs enabled a facade of success then why didn't it work for Evans? I really don't think Hines Ward or Rand Moss or TO, much less jones, Nelson, smith or Parrish will replace SJ's production. Bills please sign the effing guy and also go get some more wr's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 WHAT?!?!? Which "best years" are those!! SJ has averaged 79-1039-9 in two years as a starter; Evans averaged 54-847-6 in his seven years as a starter in Buffalo. Evans had exactly ONE season that was better than SJ's last two and SIX that were worse. The signature play in Lee Evans' career was his drop in Baltimore; a perfect example of his lack of effort and desire. It amazes me how the Lee Evans love-fest simply never ends on this board. I agree that SJ is better overall than Evans, but to look at Evans two best years you couldn't draw that conclusion on stats. And to be clear, Evans didn't drop that pass, it was stripped. You can argue he should have secured it better but you can't honestly call that a drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Keep in mind that Mario Williams is an elite player. Its not really a question of seeing how he'd work out for us because we know what we are getting by having him on the team. With Kyle locked up long term and Dareus, Sheppard, Byrd, A.Williams and the 10th pick; if these players develop the way it looks like they will, we'd have a dominant defense for the next decade. Mario would be the leader and considering he is only 27, he'd be around for a long time to keep the core group together. Very true I can't really argue with you but you never know how someone will fit in with a team. Elite player or not, that doesn't guarantee anything. Randy Moss was elite, then he went to Oakland and....? well we know what happened. Although Mario Williams has way better character than Moss I just wanted to defend my stance. Either way, He would for sure be an awesome pick up for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Keep in mind that Mario Williams is an elite player. Its not really a question of seeing how he'd work out for us because we know what we are getting by having him on the team. With Kyle locked up long term and Dareus, Sheppard, Byrd, A.Williams and the 10th pick; if these players develop the way it looks like they will, we'd have a dominant defense for the next decade. Mario would be the leader and considering he is only 27, he'd be around for a long time to keep the core group together. Elite? Now Mario Williams is an elite player? The Giants have three guys who are better than Williams and that's just one NFL team. Then you've got Allen, Ware, Hali, Suggs, Peppers... C'mon now. Let's not go overboard on Williams' ranking as an NFL pass rusher. He averages single digit sack totals. That's not elite. Yes he's a very good DE, but he simply will not be worth the risk of the 100 million dollar contract someone will end up paying him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Elite? Now Mario Williams is an elite player? The Giants have three guys who are better than Williams and that's just one NFL team. Then you've got Allen, Ware, Hali, Suggs, Peppers... C'mon now. Let's not go overboard on Williams' ranking as an NFL pass rusher. He averages single digit sack totals. That's not elite. Yes he's a very good DE, but he simply will not be worth the risk of the 100 million dollar contract someone will end up paying him. True story - when you count his rookie year, and this past year when he only had 5 sacks in 5 games. Otherwise he's easily over 10 per. Are we next arguing Stevie averages 40 catches for 500 yards? In fact in 5 season plus 2 games actually played, including that rookie year he has 53 sacks. Edited February 15, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Elite? Now Mario Williams is an elite player? The Giants have three guys who are better than Williams and that's just one NFL team. Then you've got Allen, Ware, Hali, Suggs, Peppers... C'mon now. Let's not go overboard on Williams' ranking as an NFL pass rusher. He averages single digit sack totals. That's not elite. Yes he's a very good DE, but he simply will not be worth the risk of the 100 million dollar contract someone will end up paying him. If you dont consider Mario Williams to be an elite player thats fine. Its your opinion and i respect that. I do want to point out that although Mario Williams only averages roughly 9 sacks a season... so do quite a few of the other players youve named. Why do they get the benefit of being called elite that Mario doesnt? Also, Mario had 5 sacks in 5 games in Wade's more aggressive system. Ware and Suggs both excel in aggressive defenses. Who knows how Mario would do in a full year under Wade. Id predict pretty well. What im trying to get at is that stats often can be used to support both sides of an arguement. If Mario had a big year in 2012 he'd be averaging double digit sacks, does that make him suddenly a better player than years past? I dont know. But i dont think so. Finally, you named both DE and OLB which is fine, but now thats four positions on any given team.... even if we assume every single player you named is better; does that make Mario any less elite? Again, i dont think so. Perhaps we just have different descriptions of what an elite player is. Nothing wrong with that. Mario Williams in my opinion is an elite player. Edit: Spelling Edited February 15, 2012 by Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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