BobChalmers Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) I think it could certainly be argued that "That's one HELL of an allusion" was a sarcastic statement, no? I have no dog in this fight but felt the other guy was being unfairly maligned by you. No dog here either - but that's not sarcasm, and it's awfully mild for someone to get upset about. Spiller is playing well. Carrington is getting better. A. Williams, Dareus, Searcy, Sheppard, Hairston, Rogers, have all contributed very well at times. Chris White was one of the better ST's players before he hurt his knee. Rome wasn't built in a day it takes time to build through the draft. But having so many draft picks contributing is a good thing. Nix never said he would be there for a long time. Like you said Whaley being brought in was further evidence of that. And probably something NIx suggested Mr. Wilson sign off on. The Bills are rebuilding and everybody knew that when the season started. Just because they started out hot didn't change that fact. For those that like the idea of Whaley taking over, his philosophy, building through the draft, is the same as Buddy Nix's. Which is the same as the Rooney's philosophy in Pittsburgh and Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore and Ted Thompson in Green Bay, Bill Polian in Indianapolis, Belicheck in N.E. Don't expect the Bills to deviate from their plan of building through the draft. Stop being rational - around here we prefer you show your support for the team by demanding they start over every couple of years. (Now that's sarcasm!) Edited December 22, 2011 by BobChalmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sllib olaffub Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 The Minnesota Timberwolves haven't sniffed the NBA playoffs since 2004. Do you know how incredibly easy it is to make the playoffs in the NBA?? Over in the MLB, FIVE teams have playoff droughts that exceed The Bills': Baltimore (14), Toronto (18), Pirates (19), KC Royals (26), Washington Nationals (30). So to say that this type of ineptitude is unprecedented is categorically false. Assuming Detroit makes the playoffs this year, yes we will sit atop the dubious throne of longest ever NFL drought, but other teams in other leagues have gone just as long, some even longer, and all for varying reasons. I respect your inventiveness for finding ways to excuse this franchise; however, when you say that the blame is widespread, that one cannot pin it on only a few variables, I say that is not the case. I say if you substituted only a few things, then our outlook would have been much, much better. For instance, if we would have had New England's, or Pittsburgh's owners for the last two decades - I'd bet all I have that no matter what condition they started in, they'd have been to a few playoffs and probably a superbowl or two by now. The only difference? One owner. That is just a for instance. The easy answer certainly doesn't encompass all the small points and people where fortune has gone awry for us, but, that is not to say that there are a few people or things that certainly could have changed all of this and didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sllib olaffub Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) One fact that seems to be going unmentioned here is that the Bills were the 2nd winningest team in the 90's. Who owned the team then? Oh yeah it was Ralph Wilson. This shows we can win consistently with him owning the team. Where was the talk of bean counters then? The naysayers are no different from the press. When a team is winning everyone is doing everything right and when they're losing they can't do anything right. The only way to stop all the negative talk is to win. Simple as that. If that happens everybody will be saying, "Ralph's a great owner. We were the 2nd winningest team in the 90's and look, now he's built another winner." Winning gives everybody rose colored glasses. Losing gives everybody crap colored glasses. The fact is, the truth is somewhere in the middle. So keep at it boys. Changing with the winds. I think you're taking too narrow a view here - just because Wilson chanced on to the right combination of GM's during that span - who inhereted such a poor team as to luck onto some of the best NFL players in history, that perfect storm of luck was not a vindication for Wilson; rather, when he failed to realize how good things were, when he simply believed that football was a backyard sport where anyone could win with a little common sense, and proceeded to run Polian out of town, and then fail to pay Butler what was easily a fair deal - those instances, and the fact that the team has been in the other 80% of his ownership, one of the worst teams in the league (by a wide margin bottom 5) and is now one of the very worst run - that all points to Ralph riding this grand investment, milking it dry, and getting off when the cow's ribs are bare, knees are in the dust, and Ralph just lifts a leg and lands in a wheel chair, rolling off to the pearly gates with a rattle of a laugh echoing in the halls in Canton for eternity. Edited December 22, 2011 by sllib olaffub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 now why not make a list of quality starters who have hist the street in the last 10 years because the bills didn't want to pay them the going rate for their services? and that is to say nothing of how they have spent at coaching and gm! The list is long indeed. Doesn't change the fact that poor drafting is a bigger issue. Had the team made more prudent choices, those "quality starters" who were allowed to depart would have been replaced with new quality starters. Frugality is an issue but it's secondary to talent evaluation and personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Actually I hope he can bring in better coaches faster! The only way he does that is if he fires Chan. I think CG is the one who makes the decisions on the coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Spiller is playing well. Carrington is getting better. A. Williams, Dareus, Searcy, Sheppard, Hairston, Rogers, have all contributed very well at times. Chris White was one of the better ST's players before he hurt his knee. Rome wasn't built in a day it takes time to build through the draft. But having so many draft picks contributing is a good thing. Nix never said he would be there for a long time. Like you said Whaley being brought in was further evidence of that. And probably something NIx suggested Mr. Wilson sign off on. The Bills are rebuilding and everybody knew that when the season started. Just because they started out hot didn't change that fact. For those that like the idea of Whaley taking over, his philosophy, building through the draft, is the same as Buddy Nix's. Which is the same as the Rooney's philosophy in Pittsburgh and Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore and Ted Thompson in Green Bay, Bill Polian in Indianapolis, Belicheck in N.E. Don't expect the Bills to deviate from their plan of building through the draft. This. Folks, Nix might be retiring (if he even does) because of the Evans deal and if the contract negotiations for players that Nix feels are worthy of extentions aren't going well. And Whaley will be right behind him because as haze stated their philosophy seems to be the same. Heck, it could be Whaley on the way out on his own accord, he would be the one attractive to other clubs. For me the indicator of front office inner workings will be the contracts that have to be negotiated before next season. Buddy is a man of his word and I have a feeling if the Bills don't get signed who he wants signed he will walk and I can't see Whaley sticking aropund much longer than that. Does anyone think it's more than a coincedence that Modrak wasn't involved with the 2011 draft and it's pretty good? The question after the 2012 draft will be how much the senior bowl helped in 2011. I believe these are the best "football guys" to be around OBD in a while, and I'm hopeful they'll all stay, because the talent of this roster is much greater than it's been in quite a while, especially on the lines. Although I will say whoever scouts OLB's for this team needs to be replaced if they haven't already. When was the last time we drafted an above average olb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) i am at the point where they should just go and get rob ryan. screw it!, the franchise needs some life, and ryan will be as big a blowhard as rex, but at least it will be entertaining and i suspect they will be tougher at least, more representative of the city. i am sick of the two franchises in buffalo being so freakin soft! Edited December 22, 2011 by dwight in philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/12/22/2654748/rumors-swirling-of-high-level-changes-for-buffalo-bills#storyjump "Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk cited the team's massive number of unsold tickets of late as a reason that team owner Ralph C. Wilson, Jr. may pull the plug on the Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey experiment. Florio's take is the more reputable of the two articles, but here, it seems he's merely posing the idea for discussion, rather than reporting anything concrete - or even passing along a rumor, at that." http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/21/tebowmania-cant-lift-a-buffalo-blackout/ "According to Mark Gaughan of the Buffalo News, a whopping 24,000 seats remain unsold for Saturday’s game. Factoring in Christmas Eve no-shows, Gaughan says that Ralph Wilson Stadium could see its smallest crowd since 2001. That dynamic could prompt owner Ralph Wilson to consider making drastic changes. Though coach Chan Gailey and G.M. Buddy Nix aren’t believed to be on the hot seat, Wilson could decide that bigger names are needed, both to fill seats and to increase the chances of the team making it back to the playoffs." It will be a very interesting time from now, through the offseason. Glad to see other Bills fans quit drinking the kool-aid and stop buying tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 now why not make a list of quality starters who have hist the street in the last 10 years because the bills didn't want to pay them the going rate for their services? and that is to say nothing of how they have spent at coaching and gm! yeah really... some of these pollyannas must think the franchise was formed in 2000 or something. this crap has been going on forever in buffalo. ahmad rashad anyone? hahha :lol: :lol: this is your funniest post yet! you honestly think this is one of the great mysteries of the universe that can't be "pinned on just one person?" WHO HAS BEEN THE PERSON IN CHARGE OF THE BUFFALO BILLS FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS? you don't think he might bear a little bit of the responsibility here? something tells me if we were talking about ANY other industry, you really wouldn't have such a hard time connecting the dots back to the person in charge. I respect your inventiveness for finding ways to excuse this franchise; however, when you say that the blame is widespread, that one cannot pin it on only a few variables, I say that is not the case. I say if you substituted only a few things, then our outlook would have been much, much better. For instance, if we would have had New England's, or Pittsburgh's owners for the last two decades - I'd bet all I have that no matter what condition they started in, they'd have been to a few playoffs and probably a superbowl or two by now. The only difference? One owner. That is just a for instance. The easy answer certainly doesn't encompass all the small points and people where fortune has gone awry for us, but, that is not to say that there are a few people or things that certainly could have changed all of this and didn't. Let me repeat: correlation does not equal causation. And I never said Ralph doesn't SHARE the blame, or even bear the brunt of it. The argument was whether the bean counters were in charge, or whether Ralph involved himself with football decisions and personnel moves. As the head hauncho of the organization, the buck ultimately stops with Ralph. Duh. But that's quite literally all we know. Everything else is merely conjecture. I rarely speak in absolutes about the ONE person who's to blame--and I try and curb anybody's impulse to do so. For those who want to pin it all on Ralph, you're free to do so. You won't convince me that it's that simple, but if it helps you sleep at night, knock yourself out. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/12/22/2654748/rumors-swirling-of-high-level-changes-for-buffalo-bills#storyjump "Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk cited the team's massive number of unsold tickets of late as a reason that team owner Ralph C. Wilson, Jr. may pull the plug on the Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey experiment. Florio's take is the more reputable of the two articles, but here, it seems he's merely posing the idea for discussion, rather than reporting anything concrete - or even passing along a rumor, at that." http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/21/tebowmania-cant-lift-a-buffalo-blackout/ "According to Mark Gaughan of the Buffalo News, a whopping 24,000 seats remain unsold for Saturday’s game. Factoring in Christmas Eve no-shows, Gaughan says that Ralph Wilson Stadium could see its smallest crowd since 2001. That dynamic could prompt owner Ralph Wilson to consider making drastic changes. Though coach Chan Gailey and G.M. Buddy Nix aren’t believed to be on the hot seat, Wilson could decide that bigger names are needed, both to fill seats and to increase the chances of the team making it back to the playoffs." It will be a very interesting time from now, through the offseason. Glad to see other Bills fans quit drinking the kool-aid and stop buying tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 It will be a very interesting time from now, through the offseason. Glad to see other Bills fans quit drinking the kool-aid and stop buying tickets. At some point even the most ardent of fan will break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Let me repeat: correlation does not equal causation. This is far too advanced a concept for most on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I am on the fence about Gailey / Nix, but I put forth the following question: Say they are fired....who comes here? I think people have their head in the sand (or somewhere else) if they think big name coaches will come here right now. We need a franchise QB who makes this an attractive draw, Ralph notwithstanding. Until then, we will be making yet another mediocre hire to replace the current mediocre regime. If you're given spam, it's pretty hard to make a gourmet meal, no matter how you dress it up. Nix has drafted admirably, Chan has not been horrible (but not great) and Edwards will be gone at the end of the year. However, until we replace Fitz with a franchise QB (yes, I have heard the "who does he have to throw to" argument over and over), we will never be in a situation that makes someone say, "I wanna be THERE!" I think my leaning toward cleaning house is because it gives me some hope and some excitement where there is currently none. However I fear a big part of me will be let down when we hire a coach that makes me say, "Here we go again" and I will be typing the same post two years from now. It's frustrating. I have no ties to Buffalo and could have picked any team growing up, but I became a Bills fan in the late 70's for reasons I cannot remember or comprehend. A big piece of me died with wide right and the other three SB losses and now every Monday I get asked, "what's up with your Bills?" I, like everyone else here, just want to be able to be proud of my team...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Where is wawrow when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) http://www.buffaloru...bills#storyjump "Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk cited the team's massive number of unsold tickets of late as a reason that team owner Ralph C. Wilson, Jr. may pull the plug on the Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey experiment. Florio's take is the more reputable of the two articles, but here, it seems he's merely posing the idea for discussion, rather than reporting anything concrete - or even passing along a rumor, at that." http://profootballta...ffalo-blackout/ "According to Mark Gaughan of the Buffalo News, a whopping 24,000 seats remain unsold for Saturday's game. Factoring in Christmas Eve no-shows, Gaughan says that Ralph Wilson Stadium could see its smallest crowd since 2001. That dynamic could prompt owner Ralph Wilson to consider making drastic changes. Though coach Chan Gailey and G.M. Buddy Nix aren't believed to be on the hot seat, Wilson could decide that bigger names are needed, both to fill seats and to increase the chances of the team making it back to the playoffs." It will be a very interesting time from now, through the offseason. Glad to see other Bills fans quit drinking the kool-aid and stop buying tickets. It will be interesting to see if anything happens I've given up on trying to convince the scardy cats that a better HC would produce better results In any event it looks like Nix-Whaley might finally have this franchise headed in the right direction with proper talent evaluation Edited December 23, 2011 by Fear the Beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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