San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 After last night's 62-7 prime time debacle which dropped the Colts to 0-7, you can all imagine the teeth gnashing going on in Indy. There is actually some speculation that Irsay and Company could make a clean sweep and re-make the Colts Front Office, sans Bill, Chris, and Dennis Polian. As many here have surmised over the past two seasons or so, the Colts are an average football team that overly relied on Peyton Manning, and now without him, they have been exposed. In addition, the Colts have not been drafting well recently… supposedly one of Bill Polian's strengths. I'm interested to hear people's opinions on the Indy situation and would love to hear from people living in the Indy area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Isn't Bill doing less hands-on work these days as team Prez? It would be weird if he had to let go of one or both of his sons. As for the Colts, sure, Manning concealed a lot of their deficiencies, but the talent simply isn't there at backup QB. The drop-off is not just that of #1 to typical #2, but from all-time great to rec league below-replacement-level guy. If they even had someone as good as Tyler Thigpen, they would have a win by now (and that ain't saying much). They are also accumulating a Buffalo Bills level of injuries on the OL and with Gonzalez and Addai hurting in addition to Manning, it's not like expectations can be high. The team is foolish if it thinks replacement of coaching or management personnel is going to bring about a quick fix. Manning's return will be one part of the equation, and they may be lucking into great draft position at just the right time. I don't think their drafting has been good, but if they need a big change, it's more likely to be in their defensive philosophy as the Tampax 2 just isn't the way to go in the NFL right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Larry Coyer has to go. The Titans have scored only 1 more point than the Colts but have 3 more wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I am obviously a Polian fan and hated seeing him leave the Bills but I dont know how he isnt getting more heat then he is in Indy granted they are not the same team without Manning but being 0-7 without one player is unacceptable and shows they are just not a talented team the Tampa 2 is a joke of a defense and it sickens me that they won a Super Bowl with it but as luck would have it they played the Bears who just happened to be a Tampa 2 defense as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 Isn't Bill doing less hands-on work these days as team Prez? It would be weird if he had to let go of one or both of his sons. As for the Colts, sure, Manning concealed a lot of their deficiencies, but the talent simply isn't there at backup QB. The drop-off is not just that of #1 to typical #2, but from all-time great to rec league below-replacement-level guy. If they even had someone as good as Tyler Thigpen, they would have a win by now (and that ain't saying much). They are also accumulating a Buffalo Bills level of injuries on the OL and with Gonzalez and Addai hurting in addition to Manning, it's not like expectations can be high. The team is foolish if it thinks replacement of coaching or management personnel is going to bring about a quick fix. Manning's return will be one part of the equation, and they may be lucking into great draft position at just the right time. I don't think their drafting has been good, but if they need a big change, it's more likely to be in their defensive philosophy as the Tampax 2 just isn't the way to go in the NFL right now. Good points but as others here have pointed out, isn't it on Polian that the Colts do not have a good backup QB situation? Also, the main cogs on the team, Jeff Saturday, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and Dwight Freeney are all on the backsides of their careers. The team seems to have gotten old all at once, which is also a function of bad planning. The subtext for this discussion is largely about Bill Polian's legacy. Polian has done a great job in Buffalo, Carolina, and in Indy but his last few years seem far below the standards he set earlier in his career. I'm wondering a bit also how well served Bill Polian has been by hiring his sons into the Colts front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I would be surprised by a clean sweep of house. They are playing horrible but that was expected. They built this team around Manning. They cannot win without him. Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter, Dan Orvlosky? Ugh. Alot of teams would struggle to win games with these guys at QB but 62-7? Thats not because of QB play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 After last night's 62-7 prime time debacle which dropped the Colts to 0-7, you can all imagine the teeth gnashing going on in Indy. There is actually some speculation that Irsay and Company could make a clean sweep and re-make the Colts Front Office, sans Bill, Chris, and Dennis Polian. As many here have surmised over the past two seasons or so, the Colts are an average football team that overly relied on Peyton Manning, and now without him, they have been exposed. In addition, the Colts have not been drafting well recently… supposedly one of Bill Polian's strengths. I'm interested to hear people's opinions on the Indy situation and would love to hear from people living in the Indy area. There are so many ways to go with this..... 1) The Bills have never been in a situation where they have a top 5 all time qb on their team who ate up such a huge chunk of the payroll, let alone in a salary cap era. 2) For the record, the year before they drafted manning, they too Tarik Glenn (LT) and Adam Meadows (RT) in rounds 1 and 2. 3) Polian (no, I don't have a link) admitted that he was either missing on picks and/or neglecting the OL of late. 4) The Colts are a dome team. Their defense was small and fast. A player such as Freeney could pin his ears back and go for the sack because Manning would pile up points and make teams have to pass. Manning made that team. It's been obvious for a while. In other words, Polian isn't the problem. He built his team according to circumstance, and probably whiffed a few times along the way. He is a winner, and built great teams wherever he went. He has a line of people who worked under him that were successful. Think about Polian, then give some thought to Levy/Jauron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Good points but as others here have pointed out, isn't it on Polian that the Colts do not have a good backup QB situation? Also, the main cogs on the team, Jeff Saturday, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and Dwight Freeney are all on the backsides of their careers. The team seems to have gotten old all at once, which is also a function of bad planning. That sounds really familiar to a Buffalo fan who watched the talent level gradually diffuse at the Ralph into the mid-late 90s. I think it may be said that it is easier to build a winner for a good window of time than to sustain that over many, many years, and hand the torch off to a new generation of winners. Until this year, who would have wanted to sit behind Manning forever? Even Pittsburgh, New England, and Green Bay, which I would look at as gold standards for how-to-run-a-franchise, have not had the same GM over their long runs. It's also very tough to get quality young FAs in to apprentice under great starters. That is, indeed, where good drafting comes in, and I think you're right, the returns in Indy haven't been as good of late. Baltimore might be the one exception, and Ozzie Newsome is probably categorically the best in the biz, and yes, better than Polian. Correct me if I am not considering any other deserving franchises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 I would be surprised by a clean sweep of house. They are playing horrible but that was expected. They built this team around Manning. They cannot win without him. Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter, Dan Orvlosky? Ugh. Alot of teams would struggle to win games with these guys at QB but 62-7? Thats not because of QB play Nonetheless, this is about ultimate responsibility/accountability. Polian (Chris, Bill, whomever) are responsible for the lack of QB depth, the aging of the roster, the arguably poor drafts, the arguably bad coaching, etc. Someone will have to take responsibility for this mess. I'm wondering if it's possible that the Polians are on thin ice and I'm trying to remember the last time a front office executive of Polian's stature was fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Okay... Many on this board of decried my claims that Brady is a product of his system/surrounding personnel (notably the Pats* OLine). Can we finally put to rest the notion that Peyton Manning is a far superior quarterback, at least in terms of value to his franchise??? Does one need more evidence than the Matt Cassel 11-5 Pats* vs. the non-Manning 0-7 Colts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 This is obviously Peyton Manning's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 That sounds really familiar to a Buffalo fan who watched the talent level gradually diffuse at the Ralph into the mid-late 90s. I think it may be said that it is easier to build a winner for a good window of time than to sustain that over many, many years, and hand the torch off to a new generation of winners. Until this year, who would have wanted to sit behind Manning forever? Even Pittsburgh, New England, and Green Bay, which I would look at as gold standards for how-to-run-a-franchise, have not had the same GM over their long runs. It's also very tough to get quality young FAs in to apprentice under great starters. That is, indeed, where good drafting comes in, and I think you're right, the returns in Indy haven't been as good of late. Baltimore might be the one exception, and Ozzie Newsome is probably categorically the best in the biz, and yes, better than Polian. Correct me if I am not considering any other deserving franchises. Yes. To build something is one thing and to sustain it is another. It's inevitable with success that a roster ages, the payroll bloats, etc. Certainly it can be argued that to sustain success is more difficult than to build it. And it's hard to argue with Ozzie Newsome. He's been there since 1996 and they've mostly been an excellent team. My observation on Polian is that he's not cold-hearted. He dearly loved those Buffalo teams and he kept hoping that Bob Sanders would finally become healthy again. I think if he has an achilles heel, that his personal loyalty to his players might be it. Newsome on the other hand recently jettisoned Todd Heap, Jared Gaither, and Derrick Mason. Newsome seems to be more business-like than Polian, but not as bad as someone like, say A.J. Smith in San Diego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Okay... Many on this board of decried my claims that Brady is a product of his system/surrounding personnel (notably the Pats* OLine). Can we finally put to rest the notion that Peyton Manning is a far superior quarterback, at least in terms of value to his franchise??? Does one need more evidence than the Matt Cassel 11-5 Pats* vs. the non-Manning 0-7 Colts? I do think coaching has a lot more to do with Brady's success than it does Manning's, but I don't see why one can't acknowledge both as great QBs. I imagine if you threw either QB onto a quality roster - even, say, the Bills', Buffalo would probably have at least one more win this year. Mind you, I say this as a guy who thinks Fitzy is the right QB for the team. Far superior? I don't know. Far more important? Arguably. But Brady has three rings in four visits, Manning has one in two visits, and it certainly isn't Brady's fault that his GM has put together a team that can thrive despite many personnel changes over the years. I can't stand the guy and in a contest regarding whom I'd like to punch in the face, Brady wins, but I'm past arguing that he's not any good. It's just not true. We're in an era of some outstanding QB play, and both of these guys will be unanimous HOF candidates on their first ballots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 Okay... Many on this board of decried my claims that Brady is a product of his system/surrounding personnel (notably the Pats* OLine). Can we finally put to rest the notion that Peyton Manning is a far superior quarterback, at least in terms of value to his franchise??? Does one need more evidence than the Matt Cassel 11-5 Pats* vs. the non-Manning 0-7 Colts? I've always agreed with you on this point, BC. Now stop hijacking the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Nonetheless, this is about ultimate responsibility/accountability. Polian (Chris, Bill, whomever) are responsible for the lack of QB depth, the aging of the roster, the arguably poor drafts, the arguably bad coaching, etc. Someone will have to take responsibility for this mess. I'm wondering if it's possible that the Polians are on thin ice and I'm trying to remember the last time a front office executive of Polian's stature was fired. O I agree someone needs to be held accountable. The fact they paid Manning this year seems reason enough someone deserves some blame. Its a sad state for the Colts. I really actually feel bad for their fans. I know what its like to watch a season with no hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I will say - dont sleep on what the saints can do on a good day. Last night reminded me of the Monday night game against the Pats 2 years ago. Brees was playing out of his mind there too. that was against a superbowl caliber pats team. granted it wasnt 62 points but I could see 2-3 more scores had brady not played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills!Win! Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) Can we still trade Indianapolis Trent Edwards and J.P. Losman for their 1st round pick? (caution sarcasm included) Edited October 24, 2011 by Bills!Win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Can we still trade Indianapolis Trent Edwards and J.P. Losman for their 1st round pick? We might have to give them our first too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I am obviously a Polian fan and hated seeing him leave the Bills but I dont know how he isnt getting more heat then he is in Indy granted they are not the same team without Manning but being 0-7 without one player is unacceptable and shows they are just not a talented team the Tampa 2 is a joke of a defense and it sickens me that they won a Super Bowl with it but as luck would have it they played the Bears who just happened to be a Tampa 2 defense as well The crappy tampa 2 works if your offense is powerful and gets you a lead that forces the opposition to change their game plan and go to the pass and more open field type plays. Then the small, super fast tampa 2 athletes eat that up with INTs and easy tackles in front of them. It failed with the Bills as opponents just ran at it , plus Bills offense wasn't very good at getting leads. It is a good defense if you have a half dozen great athletes in it and your offense is terrific. Both of which the Colts had a few of the last 10 years. With Manning down, the whole thing kind of falls apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Beeeews Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 If there was anybody who should tank, purposly, its the Colts. With all the success over the years with Manning, the front office has avoided the inevitable: Life without Peyton. Now, they're living the sobering reality of such. Hell, the Colts don't need to try to lose to get Andrew Luck, they're 0-16 "bad" when they play hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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