eme123 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I'm I stand corrected...I meant rational and effective free agency, like Michael Vick, Plaxico Burress, Flozell Adams, etc. Michael Vick was sitting in prison for 2 years. The Eagles had two other capable quarterbacks on their roster and had no risk involved. 90% of us at the time would have said what a dumb move it was. Plaxico Burress was also sitting in prison for two years. His last year in NYG he played in 10 games and did nothing. Even in the Giants super bowl year he barely broke 1k yards. Is a guy like this really going to get the Bills to the playoffs? Flozell Adams is 36 years old. Come on These are hardly rational or effective pick ups. Nor do i think they are better options than what we have now or what we had then. In the NFL, Free Agents are other teams GARBAGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Dr. Dereustein, the fact that Simon agreed with what I said is all the proof you need. Hell just froze over... Actually, I agree with you more often than not. I just think you're a rude bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 By its vacuous nature of argument. Oh, the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Can't say I agree with most of those statements. And I also read that feature with the quote praising Brad Smith. In fact, this report quotes a scout who says the Bills' only weakness is lack of a tight end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I agree with some of the opinion, but the facts are so wrong. Merriman is old? No he is not. CJ spillar hasn't been good 2 years running? No, that was just one year. nothing behind kelsey and merriman? Moats (yes, i know he is ILB for now) can very well be our poor man's verision of merriman as a pass rusher and carrington has been marvelous at the position. At the very least, those two are decent backups. Then there are some good developmental players behind them like coleman and battan, that I wouldn't start, but they have potential. Really, the only thing I agree with is the offensive line. Which is sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Oh, the irony. Indeed. You aren't the King of building arguments from negative premises for nothing. (Don't worry you weren't the only one that thought Trent Edwards looked great last pre-season.) But, I see that you actually did put a thought down to support your claim that the OL is definitely better later in the thread. My bad on that. Unfortunately, the less injured means better thing only lasts as long as the line suffers no injuries, which given the recent past has been fleeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 The following quotes are from NFL scouts, coaches and front-office personnel, speaking on the condition of anonymity. • "I keep hearing what a great job (Bills GM) Buddy Nix is doing. The offensive line sucks. He did not address the quarterback position. (C.J.) Spiller is still struggling two years running. How do you win with (Kraig) Urbik, (Erik) Pears and Demetrius Bell starting on your offensive line? And there is nothing behind them. They paid Nick Barnett a ton of money to play in a system that he is not good at. He is a 4-3 Mike 'backer who is on the downside of his career. Who are their outside 'backers? (Chris) Kelsay and (Shawne) Merriman are old and broken down. There's nothing behind them. I'm shocked Jammie Kirlew is on an NFL roster. Buddy has been around awhile — he must have the hype machine working overtime. Unless I'm missing something, that is a bad football team." Have at it..... The big question is if all the handicaps he has are self-imposed or being imposed on him. It's rather hard to build exclusively through the draft when you lose as many as you get every year. It's the treadmill to nowhere. Dareus looks like the real deal. Hopefully, he can stay healthy and develop into a stud. The d-line needed help and got some with that pick. I have to agree on the o-line. The Buddy era hasn't done much. Maybe Hairston is a player, but the 2 picks last year don't look so hot. It's going to take time there and they're behind the 8-ball with the lock-out. Expecting the right side of your line to be manned by cast-offs ("extra draft picks") is a big gamble. Kelsay is as bad as it gets as an OLB, but I hope they'll play him more at DE where he doesn't play clueless. Merriman is a risk -- a risk worth taking -- and hopefully some of the kids can come along and provide depth. The roster looks scary thin and not ready to compete with the juggernauts yet. But Buddy knows that, I think. His plan is multi-year and "pain and patience" is the motto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGB Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 The big question is if all the handicaps he has are self-imposed or being imposed on him. It's rather hard to build exclusively through the draft when you lose as many as you get every year. It's the treadmill to nowhere. Dareus looks like the real deal. Hopefully, he can stay healthy and develop into a stud. The d-line needed help and got some with that pick. I have to agree on the o-line. The Buddy era hasn't done much. Maybe Hairston is a player, but the 2 picks last year don't look so hot. It's going to take time there and they're behind the 8-ball with the lock-out. Expecting the right side of your line to be manned by cast-offs ("extra draft picks") is a big gamble. Kelsay is as bad as it gets as an OLB, but I hope they'll play him more at DE where he doesn't play clueless. Merriman is a risk -- a risk worth taking -- and hopefully some of the kids can come along and provide depth. The roster looks scary thin and not ready to compete with the juggernauts yet. But Buddy knows that, I think. His plan is multi-year and "pain and patience" is the motto. "pain and patience" might be the plan but time does not appear to be what most folks have (including 93 yr olds.) Also, the Bills might be their worst enemy if they start out slow and then finish strong - out of the Luck sweepstakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Actually, I agree with you more often than not. I just think you're a rude bastard. I hear that so much that I'm starting to believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Indeed. You aren't the King of building arguments from negative premises for nothing. (Don't worry you weren't the only one that thought Trent Edwards looked great last pre-season.) But, I see that you actually did put a thought down to support your claim that the OL is definitely better later in the thread. My bad on that. Unfortunately, the less injured means better thing only lasts as long as the line suffers no injuries, which given the recent past has been fleeting. Again, oh, the irony. And sorry, but I didn't think Trent Edwards looked good last pre-season. So much for accusing others of building arguments from negative premises. I gave you the reasons why I think the OL will be better. Why do you think it will be worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Can't say I agree with most of those statements. And I also read that feature with the quote praising Brad Smith. In fact, this report quotes a scout who says the Bills' only weakness is lack of a tight end. !@#$! I'll never learn to look at the bottom before I click the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 !@#$! I'll never learn to look at the bottom before I click the link. Tight end. Get it? Lame, I know. Congrats, Marcellosaurus, yer my first Peter Pan victim. Now that I have that out of my system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Again, oh, the irony. And sorry, but I didn't think Trent Edwards looked good last pre-season. So much for accusing others of building arguments from negative premises. I gave you the reasons why I think the OL will be better. Why do you think it will be worse? I'm afraid the OL will be worse because there hasn't been much done to address the issues. Like putting bubble gum on a leaky pipe, I'm expecting something to give Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Don't worry, "the offensive line was good last year." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Again, oh, the irony. And sorry, but I didn't think Trent Edwards looked good last pre-season. So much for accusing others of building arguments from negative premises. I gave you the reasons why I think the OL will be better. Why do you think it will be worse? Well, you might think I have never posted any reasons why I have an opinion, but you'd be wrong again. That's OK, though. We don't have to agree. (Though, I have agreed with some of your posts in the past.) As I already posted in this thread, I think Nix hasn't done much to address the OL. This is not a unique assessment on my part. Many talking heads in the media and, yes, even some NFL insiders agree with this assessment. Recapping: The o-line hasn't been very good since it was totally dismantled the last year Jauron was here and Nix has brought in little help for it since. Wang might just be cut and Hairston is a rookie and depth. This year, Hangartner is on the bench, Wood is at a new position, the coaches aren't sure if Levitre or Reinhart should be starting, or Bell or Levitre, it a given there is a new starter at RG (vacated by Wood), and also at RT. That is a lot of change since 12 months ago and change doesn't equal improvement. Have you ever played o-line? It's a team within a team. It's a gestalt that takes time to develop. It's not a microwave bake of the 5 biggest guys. As far as the health kick: let's take Bell for an example. He may be healthy now, but he's been struggling to keep his job. One might call that definitely better or improvement, but others might see it quite differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Well, you might think I have never posted any reasons why I have an opinion, but you'd be wrong again. That's OK, though. We don't have to agree. (Though, I have agreed with some of your posts in the past.) As I already posted in this thread, I think Nix hasn't done much to address the OL. This is not a unique assessment on my part. Many talking heads in the media and, yes, even some NFL insiders agree with this assessment. Recapping: The o-line hasn't been very good since it was totally dismantled the last year Jauron was here and Nix has brought in little help for it since. Wang might just be cut and Hairston is a rookie and depth. This year, Hangartner is on the bench, Wood is at a new position, the coaches aren't sure if Levitre or Reinhart should be starting, or Bell or Levitre, it a given there is a new starter at RG (vacated by Wood), and also at RT. That is a lot of change since 12 months ago and change doesn't equal improvement. Have you ever played o-line? It's a team within a team. It's a gestalt that takes time to develop. It's not a microwave bake of the 5 biggest guys. As far as the health kick: let's take Bell for an example. He may be healthy now, but he's been struggling to keep his job. One might call that definitely better or improvement, but others might see it quite differently. My assertion was that the Bills' OL would be better than last year. Apparently you thought I was saying it would be a top OL. My mistake for being so unclear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meark Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 WHAT!?!?!? Who is this "depth" that you are talking about? If you mean depth as in we have 7 players who play the position then you are right. But there is very little quality. Merriman comes with a huge IF. After that, Kelsay? Batten is a guy that everyone like because he's an underdog. If you actually watch him play, he's been very average. Carrington is a square peg round hole. No change of direction or closing speed. He is playing way out of position which is a 5 technique DE. Coleman....um, er.... The only impact we have at that position in Merriman and let's see where he is at around week 8. Very little quality? You are such a debbie downer. You didn't mention Davis, Bennett, Morrison, Moats or Sheppard.. Shep is an unknown at this point but David, Bennett, Moats and Morrison aren't. I'd say we are pretty stacked at LB.. quality LB's no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 My assertion was that the Bills' OL would be better than last year. Apparently you thought I was saying it would be a top OL. My mistake for being so unclear. I understood you perfectly. I just don't think it's a given and thus don't agree with your comment: The OL is definitely improved over last year. Whether it's a top OL is debatable (and unlikely). But it is improved. By the way, my original retort was to this post: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/133850-insider-nix-hasnt-addressed-bills-greatest-needs/page__view__findpost__p__2230633 Which may have been a joke or not, but there was certainly nothing of a debate as quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Very little quality? You are such a debbie downer. You didn't mention Davis, Bennett, Morrison, Moats or Sheppard.. Shep is an unknown at this point but David, Bennett, Moats and Morrison aren't. I'd say we are pretty stacked at LB.. quality LB's no less. If you read the earlier post I was talking about the lack of QUALITY depth from our OLBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McD Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 O-line will still be a weak point for this team. We brought in players to upgrade the DL and LB corp, and early indications are that they will help. WR was a strength, but is now a question with the loss of Evans. Spiller CANNOT be forced in there just because he was taken so highly. He should be situational and taught NOT to dance behind the line or try to get outside every damn run. TE was another spot that was ignored even though every top team in the NFL has a quality TE and/or a gameplan for them to succeed as a unit. Fitz isn't a strength, but a better option than what we've had in the past. He has this year to prove himself... I think we've all been pretty much saying this for the better part of a decade now... this game ISN'T that hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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