chris heff Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'd say that 85% to 90% of the people posting crap on the wall these days don't have a clue what they're posting about.. My margin of error is about 5%! It is a little known fact that 78% of all statistics are made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opfball91 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) A huge part of o-line play is a consistent lineup, guys getting used to who they're playing next to, how they react to what, etc. So its not so much the need to buy a ton of talent, sometimes it just takes time. Not to say the Bills couldn't use an upgrade on the right side, just saying that another year together will only improve this o-line. Oh and anyone who thinks Bell is trash either a) Didn't watch him play or b) doesn't understand football cause he showed great pass protecting ability even against some of the leagues top rushers and defenses, with the line allowing one sack against the Ravens and two against the Steelers. With Wood at center making the calls I think you'll see a greatly improved Bills offensive line from a year ago. Edited August 10, 2011 by opfball91 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) A huge part of o-line play is a consistent lineup, guys getting used to who they're playing next to, how they react to what, etc. So its not so much the need to buy a ton of talent, sometimes it just takes time. Not to say the Bills couldn't use an upgrade on the right side, just saying that another year together will only improve this o-line. Oh and anyone who thinks Bell is trash either a) Didn't watch him play or b) doesn't understand football cause he showed great pass protecting ability even against some of the leagues top rushers and defenses, with the line allowing one sack against the Ravens and two against the Steelers. With Wood at center making the calls I think you'll see a greatly improved Bills offensive line from a year ago. I don't think Bell is trash, but sorry, I don't consider allowing a few sacks per game "great pass protecting". As it stands right now Bell is by far our best OT (by default), that doesn't mean he would be able to start on any other NFL team. Bell is decent, but the fact that we keep settling for "Decent" players at the most important positions on the team is why the Bills consistently struggle... Edited August 10, 2011 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I like to think that Nix and Gailey are not as stupid as we like to assume they are. Granted they probably don't have the years of EA Madden Football 200X under their belts, but considering they both have long tenures in the NFL they must know at least a little. Also, as much as we think of the Bills being in an 0-11 playoff streak, Nix and Gailey only missed one year. To blame them for the other ten is stupid. That said, Nix did address the O-line last year with Cornell Green. I don't think I have to tell you how that worked out. This year, my guess is Nix went after the one guy in free agency that he felt was a can't-miss player: Clabo. After not getting him, for whatever reason, maybe Nix felt every other free agent tackle was another potential Cornell Green, and if you don't believe a guy is going to work out, why pay him a crapload of money? Like they say in ads for investing..."past results do not guarantee future outcomes." And as sure as we tend to get that the 3-time pro bowl tackle who just got cut is a no-brainer, maybe...just maybe that guy was cut for a reason, like he ain't no pro bowler no more. And no...player X with a bum knee is NOT better than anyone we have now. That statement is the ultimate in ignorance. PTR Actually, old vets with bad knees are better than Wang now. I love the absolutes that this topic engenders, very much like Bills' FO approach to the OL situation. On one hand you realize that the OTs need to be upgraded, so you throw the bank at a Pro Bowler. When you fail to land him, you revert to your original roster, which is weak. The issue isn't so much whether Bell can be a decent OL, but the fact that he hasn't played a full season at his position in his career, and when he's playing, he's adequate at best. You can get by with an adequate LT for a while, if you have a very strong interior. But despite high hopes for the G-C-G, they did not dominate in games. Add the mess at RT, and the high probability that Bell will be hurt again (assuming that he returns to form after the CURRENT injury), your LT backups are not NFL worthy. But don't take my word for it, listen to the high praise the coach gave his backups a few days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Actually, old vets with bad knees are better than Wang now. I love the absolutes that this topic engenders, very much like Bills' FO approach to the OL situation. On one hand you realize that the OTs need to be upgraded, so you throw the bank at a Pro Bowler. When you fail to land him, you revert to your original roster, which is weak. The issue isn't so much whether Bell can be a decent OL, but the fact that he hasn't played a full season at his position in his career, and when he's playing, he's adequate at best. You can get by with an adequate LT for a while, if you have a very strong interior. But despite high hopes for the G-C-G, they did not dominate in games. Add the mess at RT, and the high probability that Bell will be hurt again (assuming that he returns to form after the CURRENT injury), your LT backups are not NFL worthy. But don't take my word for it, listen to the high praise the coach gave his backups a few days ago. Bell played all 16 games last season, Gerry. And he was still recovering from his ACL. As for the interior, Wood was also still recovering. He should be even better this year, and the Bills will be better with him starting at center. True backup depth is worrisome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) Actually, old vets with bad knees are better than Wang now. I love the absolutes that this topic engenders, very much like Bills' FO approach to the OL situation. On one hand you realize that the OTs need to be upgraded, so you throw the bank at a Pro Bowler. When you fail to land him, you revert to your original roster, which is weak. The issue isn't so much whether Bell can be a decent OL, but the fact that he hasn't played a full season at his position in his career, and when he's playing, he's adequate at best. You can get by with an adequate LT for a while, if you have a very strong interior. But despite high hopes for the G-C-G, they did not dominate in games. Add the mess at RT, and the high probability that Bell will be hurt again (assuming that he returns to form after the CURRENT injury), your LT backups are not NFL worthy. But don't take my word for it, listen to the high praise the coach gave his backups a few days ago. I have to agree with this. Especially about the part about listening to what the coach said. Gailey basically admitted he is working with a train wreck of an O-line right now. Ubrik has never been a starter, and no other team was interested in him. Pears has had trouble landing a spot as a backup anywhere else. Now he's our starter Edited August 10, 2011 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 And in the category of lies, damn lies, and statistics: 2010 OL rankings, courtesy of footballoutsiders.com: Buffalo ranked 17th in pass protection with an "adjusted sack rate" of 6.5% -- the league average. They ranked 20th in run blocking effectiveness -- but read further. On runs listed in the official NFL play-by-play transcript as directed over LT (Bell) the Bills were NUMBER ONE in the NFL in "adjusted line yards" per play at 5.25. So -- despite a "horrible" situation at RT and what many view as a "weak" LT, the Bills' line was still pretty much average (i.e., in the middle third of the league). Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) And in the category of lies, damn lies, and statistics: 2010 OL rankings, courtesy of footballoutsiders.com: Buffalo ranked 17th in pass protection with an "adjusted sack rate" of 6.5% -- the league average. They ranked 20th in run blocking effectiveness -- but read further. On runs listed in the official NFL play-by-play transcript as directed over LT (Bell) the Bills were NUMBER ONE in the NFL in "adjusted line yards" per play at 5.25. So -- despite a "horrible" situation at RT and what many view as a "weak" LT, the Bills' line was still pretty much average (i.e., in the middle third of the league). Discuss. As much as I use "footballoutsiders" to determine all of my thoughts on football...I don't see these "stats" as an indicator of OT success. Not mentioned here is that the Bills ran up the middle more often than any other team (according to that link), and to the left fewer than most teams. Teams probably just didn't expect it...Also, I just don't believe you can have rankings like "blocking effectiveness" that you can quantify that accurately using "stats". There are way too many variables in football for stats like this to mean anything to me. Edited August 10, 2011 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I have to agree with this. Especially about the part about listening to what the coach said. Gailey basically admitted he is working with a train wreck of an O-line right now. Ubrik has never been a starter, and no other team was interested in him. Pears has had trouble landing a spot as a backup anywhere else. Now he's our starter Urbik was picked up off waivers from Pittsburgh, there were reportedly multiple other teams that put in claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) Urbik was picked up off waivers from Pittsburgh, there were reportedly multiple other teams that put in claims. If that's true perhaps other teams were interested in him due to his high draft status. My point was this. Despite being a 3rd round pick, he was not even on the active roster most of his rookie season as a backup. The next year, despite Steelers o-line woes, he again couldn't make the team as a backup. The Steelers didn't think enough of him to be a backup on their own team for 2 years, despite the fact they spent a 3 on him. Now he's our starter... Edited August 10, 2011 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 And in the category of lies, damn lies, and statistics: 2010 OL rankings, courtesy of footballoutsiders.com: Buffalo ranked 17th in pass protection with an "adjusted sack rate" of 6.5% -- the league average. They ranked 20th in run blocking effectiveness -- but read further. On runs listed in the official NFL play-by-play transcript as directed over LT (Bell) the Bills were NUMBER ONE in the NFL in "adjusted line yards" per play at 5.25. So -- despite a "horrible" situation at RT and what many view as a "weak" LT, the Bills' line was still pretty much average (i.e., in the middle third of the league). Discuss. As was discussed in the other thread, Bills ran over LT fewer times than only 3-4 other teams, which indicates that the good yardage they were getting going left was due more to element of surprise rather than the effectiveness of Bell's run blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreReed83 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 How exactly has the offense regressed? That's the part I don't get. They return everyone from last year, literally everyone. So it's no worse is equal to last year barring injury. I understand it might not be any better but I fail to see where it got worse? Just because everyone returned doesn't mean they're level of play can't regress. What are u talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Just because everyone returned doesn't mean they're level of play can't regress. What are u talking about? That's the spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Just because everyone returned doesn't mean they're level of play can't regress. What are u talking about? They are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstealer Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I definitely wouldn't say the offense as a whole has regressed, for the most part it looks improved in many ways...Except for the O-line. You might have a case that it regressed. This has been discussed plenty, but outside of Bell (backup on other teams) Levitre (decent) and Wood (pretty good) I'm not sure that we have anyone that would even make another roster (for instance, Pears and Ubrik, two penciled in starters, haven't been able to stick with any other team even as a backup). They were not starters last year, so this in theory could be used to make the case that they regressed. Bell is serviceable at best, when healthy of course. I would say that RB's look fine, TE (Chandler) and WR look better, as well as QB depth (Thigpen/Smith). We will need it with that O-line... This. And as Fitz gets better and more veteran, his low maintenance, o-line helping style is so huge for patchwork O-lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Please explain how they have regressed. Isn't it obvious? They've looked horrible in every, single pre-season game. Oh, wait a second.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 As was discussed in the other thread, Bills ran over LT fewer times than only 3-4 other teams, which indicates that the good yardage they were getting going left was due more to element of surprise rather than the effectiveness of Bell's run blocking. The LT point was secondary to the overall perception of last year's OL. If you read this board for about five minutes you'd think the Bills of 2010 were the worst OL in the history of football, but in reality they were far from awful. The defense was 10X the problem the OL was. I'm glad the Bills focused on that atrocity first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Isn't it obvious? They've looked horrible in every, single pre-season game. Oh, wait a second.... "We talkin' 'bout practice..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 And in the category of lies, damn lies, and statistics: 2010 OL rankings, courtesy of footballoutsiders.com: Buffalo ranked 17th in pass protection with an "adjusted sack rate" of 6.5% -- the league average. They ranked 20th in run blocking effectiveness -- but read further. On runs listed in the official NFL play-by-play transcript as directed over LT (Bell) the Bills were NUMBER ONE in the NFL in "adjusted line yards" per play at 5.25. So -- despite a "horrible" situation at RT and what many view as a "weak" LT, the Bills' line was still pretty much average (i.e., in the middle third of the league). Discuss. Which seems to translate to our generally average offense when combined with the fact that we constantly play from behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) The offensive line was pretty dreadful man. As bad as the defense, no. Thats not saying a hell of a lot. The running game was lousy (Jackson failed to reach 1,000 yards and scored only 5 touchdowns despite appearing in 16 games; Spiller and Lynch faired even worse), and Gailey/Fitz designed and executed a passing game to literally work around never having pass protection. It was ugly. People talk about Fitz throwing too many interceptions...try putting a hand on a pass rusher before he crushes your most important player. One encouraging thing I've found is that Jackson went from 3.8 ypc over the first eight games to 4.4 over the final eight games. Its possible thats a sign of legitimate improvement. Personally, looking at the personnel, I'm expecting the running game to struggle mightily again when the season opens. We have 2 good offensive linemen, as of now. Nobody else has shown anything. Edited August 10, 2011 by Big Bad Boone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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