Doc Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I highly doubt it will be sold to the lowest bidder And selling to the highest or lowest bidder are the only 2 options. My point was, what will people think of the man after his passing and the team is moved by the new owner... when he could have easily set something up before his demise to ensure the team stays in Buffalo. Even if he were to sell before he dies, he cannot stipulate to the new owner that the team cannot be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) People who endlessly criticize Ralph: -- have an inability to apply critical thinking skills -- have a psychological complex with -- suffer from Confirmation Bias in almost all phases of their personal life Note I said people who endlessly criticize Ralph. Situational criticism is OK.. and there are certainly times when that is just. would you call witnessing 51 years of decidedly, objectively measurable, unarguably poor performance an example of confirmation bias? perhaps you should try another tack here. .... maybe another ad hominem attack. Edited June 13, 2011 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I guess billsfreak hasn't logged on yet... (welcome to the Wall) Yes I have peeball, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I don't wanna rehash the posts from last week about whether Ralph being a good person and being a good owner are one in the same. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Yes I have peeball, but everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I don't wanna rehash the posts from last week about whether Ralph being a good person and being a good owner are one in the same. Get over it. Now THAT's mature. Is it really a stretch for me to anticipate you would respond in a thread that includes positive comments towards Ralph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 So nice of you guys to nit pick and miss the entire point It will still be sold to whoever offers the most and is approved by all the other owners. Again, My point was, what will people think of the man after his passing and the team is moved by the new owner... when he could have easily set something up before his demise to ensure the team stays in Buffalo. I think the point you are missing as well is that the actual sale of a team is not done in a single event, but in real life there are a series of steps where the concept is hatched by an individual. the concept is talked about by several folks to determine interest, the final deal is altered a number of times to satisfy the various stakeholders involved (for example the price is negotiated and whatever extras are offered or thrown into what will eventually be the final deal, and whatever else needs to happen before the final deal is done. To assign a static order to how this must happen is simply incorrect. It is not the case that FIRST the team is sold to the highest bidder and THEN the NFL approves or does not approve. In real life, the NFL will be asked (either behind the scenes in conversations or directly in an exchange of public letters) whether a particular owner is likely to be approved by the NFL in the future or not. An example of this is what happened with Rush Limbaugh as part of a potential bid from a St. Louis led group. There was a conversation between the St. Louis group and Rushbo to determine whether he would be part of the group and how much he would pay for what % interest. The deal was agreed to. In the world as you lay it out, this group would then go blithely ahead and eventually after they bought the team the NFL would then decide whether to approve or disapprove the sale. However, leaving your thinking and moving back to reality, a deal between Limburgher and the St. Louis group was concluded and they began talking about it feeling that RL's participation enhanced the group (he brought cash and the adulation of a small % of white men). However, questions were raised quite quickly by folks whether in fact Rush's involvement was an advantage. There was a little public back and forth about rights, money, etc. The NFLPA (which whether some want to admit it or not is now a partner in the enterprise known as the NFL after the post 80s lockout CBA and arguably is the majority partner after they got well over 50% of the total receipts in the last CBA negotiation) then still looking for revenge after they got Rushbo canned by ESPN after he accused Donovan McNabb of profiting from reverse discrimination made it clear that RLRushguy would not be acceptable as an NFL owner. Rush went away. You are simply wrong if you believe what you said that first the team is sold to the highest bidder and then the NFL decides whether this owner is acceptable or not. The process is far more intermingled than the unitary static scheme you pretend is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 And selling to the highest or lowest bidder are the only 2 options. Even if he were to sell before he dies, he cannot stipulate to the new owner that the team cannot be moved. Baloney, he could take steps to ensure the team stays in Buffalo just like Tom G did with the sabres, sell for less money to an owner who will keep the team in Buffalo. Wilson is basically stating he will not do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Now THAT's mature. Is it really a stretch for me to anticipate you would respond in a thread that includes positive comments towards Ralph? I am not the one that brought someone else's screen name into it with no reason? I responded because you brought me into it, so it shouldn't take much for you to anticipate it. Get over your obsession with me, I am not interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I think the point you are missing as well is that the actual sale of a team is not done in a single event, but in real life there are a series of steps where the concept is hatched by an individual. the concept is talked about by several folks to determine interest, the final deal is altered a number of times to satisfy the various stakeholders involved (for example the price is negotiated and whatever extras are offered or thrown into what will eventually be the final deal, and whatever else needs to happen before the final deal is done. To assign a static order to how this must happen is simply incorrect. It is not the case that FIRST the team is sold to the highest bidder and THEN the NFL approves or does not approve. In real life, the NFL will be asked (either behind the scenes in conversations or directly in an exchange of public letters) whether a particular owner is likely to be approved by the NFL in the future or not. An example of this is what happened with Rush Limbaugh as part of a potential bid from a St. Louis led group. There was a conversation between the St. Louis group and Rushbo to determine whether he would be part of the group and how much he would pay for what % interest. The deal was agreed to. In the world as you lay it out, this group would then go blithely ahead and eventually after they bought the team the NFL would then decide whether to approve or disapprove the sale. However, leaving your thinking and moving back to reality, a deal between Limburgher and the St. Louis group was concluded and they began talking about it feeling that RL's participation enhanced the group (he brought cash and the adulation of a small % of white men). However, questions were raised quite quickly by folks whether in fact Rush's involvement was an advantage. There was a little public back and forth about rights, money, etc. The NFLPA (which whether some want to admit it or not is now a partner in the enterprise known as the NFL after the post 80s lockout CBA and arguably is the majority partner after they got well over 50% of the total receipts in the last CBA negotiation) then still looking for revenge after they got Rushbo canned by ESPN after he accused Donovan McNabb of profiting from reverse discrimination made it clear that RLRushguy would not be acceptable as an NFL owner. Rush went away. You are simply wrong if you believe what you said that first the team is sold to the highest bidder and then the NFL decides whether this owner is acceptable or not. The process is far more intermingled than the unitary static scheme you pretend is real. ...... Again, My point was, what will people think of the man after his passing and the team is moved by the new owner... when he could have easily set something up before his demise to ensure the team stays in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 He's never spent even close to the minimum on players' salaries during the salary cap era. And as for moving, he's never gone even close to as far as Bob Kraft did with his deal with Hartford, that he backed-out on at the 11th hour. You're right, Kraft threatened to move the team to Hartford. Ralph actually went through with it and signed away games to Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 ...... Again, My point was, what will people think of the man after his passing and the team is moved by the new owner... when he could have easily set something up before his demise to ensure the team stays in Buffalo. Agreed that we will not know what the future is until the future happens. Whether the team moves or not is one of those unknowns. Like you, I agree that without regard to what Mr. Ralph wants now, he will be dead so it does not guarantee that his wishes will happen like he wants. There are several methods which he might use to influence the question of what happens next that actually should heighten the chances the team remains here (for example he could deed the Bills to an irrevocable trust which he sets up upon his death with a mission of educating the public and kids about athletic involvement. This method can be used to escape all of what so politicos call the death tax. Further, this new 501c3 could be set-up with whomever he designates as original staff and for whatever reasonable compensation he wants to set them up for life.. or he and his lawyers who know more than I have forgotten about trusts and estates might do something else brilliant I do not have the knowledge to create. Mr. Ralph can try whatever he wants and actually has the resources now to give it a good chance of working whether it is move the team or keep the team here. The additional piece beyond that which your ideas seem to incorrectly dismiss is that the NFL essentially has a veto over the highest bidder so the statement that the team MUST be sold to the highest bidder is just factually wrong. If this point is part of your thinking then OK. If it is not then your point is factually wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I am not the one that brought someone else's screen name into it with no reason? I responded because you brought me into it, so it shouldn't take much for you to anticipate it. Get over your obsession with me, I am not interested. It's called humor. Like when a thread about the offensive line comes up, I know Bill from NYC will chime in and complain (legitimately) about how the Bills have drafted small, weak players. You're like clockwork -- it's no obsession, it's reality. Ralph's name is mentioned, and here comes billsfreak to remind everyone how cheap he is. Happens every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 You're right, Kraft threatened to move the team to Hartford. Ralph actually went through with it and signed away games to Toronto. Last time I checked, the Bills were still in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Last time I checked, the Bills were still in Buffalo. For the most part, but not completely. Ralph sure put one foot out the door, and moved more games than Kraft ever has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 For the most part, but not completely. Ralph sure put one foot out the door, and moved more games than Kraft ever has. The subject was moving the team, not games. There's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 The subject was moving the team, not games. There's a difference. There is, up to a point. That point being 4 home games a year. And Ralph already moved 1. You brought up Kraft as an example of an owner who went FURTHER than Ralph in potentially moving the team, but that is inaccurate. Ralph has already started moving games out of Buffalo. IMO, and by definition, that is further than playing all of your games at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Last time I checked, the Bills were still in Buffalo. Yeah but if RW hadn't met with Seattle city officials back in 1970 and threatened to move the team to Seattle unless he got a new stadium, the Bills would either still be playing on Jefferson & Best or - more likely - would have moved elsewhere. (Really no different at all than Kraft's Hartford machinations - just that, as usual, RW was years ahead of his time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 There is, up to a point. That point being 4 home games a year. And Ralph already moved 1. You brought up Kraft as an example of an owner who went FURTHER than Ralph in potentially moving the team, but that is inaccurate. Ralph has already started moving games out of Buffalo. IMO, and by definition, that is further than playing all of your games at home. A game a year moved. Not the team. And it moved within Buffalo's "territory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 There is, up to a point. That point being 4 home games a year. And Ralph already moved 1. New 8 game regular season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 A game a year moved. Not the team. And it moved within Buffalo's "territory." So I can cheat on my wife if its only once a year? I love her the other 364 days. And Im only banging her sister. New 8 game regular season? No, 8 home games. And if you have 4 being played in Buffalo and 4 somewhere else, are they really still the BUFFALO Bills? And once it crosses to 3 (or less) in Buffalo, then what do you call them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 No, 8 home games. And if you have 4 being played in Buffalo and 4 somewhere else, are they really still the BUFFALO Bills? And once it crosses to 3 (or less) in Buffalo, then what do you call them? So you're hypothetically assuming that additional games will be played outside of Orchard Park? I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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