Chef Jim Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I have been in education for 16 years and I belong to a teacher's union. While I appreciate many things a union does for me, I think it keeps bad teachers employed and, as mentioned above, ends up hurting students in the long run. If anything, the union evens the playing field so all teachers are treated the same, meaning teachers I have worked with who are basically jokes in the classroom, do absolutely nothing extra-curricularly in the school get the exact pay as I do (I coach football then basketball, am at the school helping for every tournament, etc.). It is frustrating, to say the least. Unionized or not, there has to be a level of competence met, but it is virtually impossible to get a teacher fired in our District. I know Geno will say my opinion doesn't matter because I am Canadian (an argument that has long grown old), but truth is, it is an issue that transcends borders. We are falling behind...quickly...and doing things the same old way just doesn't cut it anymore. If anything, the teaching profession should be under closer scrutiny than many professions because it correlates directly to our future. Having never been in a Union I'm interested to know what things the union does for you that you appreciate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I think public employee's pay should be comparable to compensation that is offered in the private sector... I do agree with this... I have been saying it my whole career. As a fed employee... I would love to be making more and have better benny's! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I do agree with this... I have been saying it my whole career. As a fed employee... I would love to be making more and have better benny's! :thumbsup: You sir are a nincompoop http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data finds. Accountants, nurses, chemists, surveyors, cooks, clerks and janitors are among the wide range of jobs that get paid more on average in the federal government than in the private sector. Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available. CHART: Federal salaries compared to private-sector These salary figures do not include the value of health, pension and other benefits, which averaged $40,785 per federal employee in 2008 vs. $9,882 per private worker, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis . Those Facts really suck sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) You sir are a nincompoop http://www.usatoday....deral-pay_N.htm . Those Facts really suck sometimes. Wow... Again.. Like Tom said... I bet the fat cats in my agency are laughing... See how we do all the real work and get paid less than average. Then again, how many few fed employees are "pulling" the average way up like that? I know nobody that makes that much! Could that be the "golden tier" employees are making just that much more... Totally blowing the working stiff out of the water? Edited March 14, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Wow... Again.. Like Tom said... I bet the fat cats in my agency are laughing... See how we do all the real work and get paid less than average. Then again, how many few fed employees are "pulling" the average way up like that? I know nobody that makes that much! Could that be the "golden tier" employees are making just that much more... Totally blowing the working stiff out of the water? You didn't read the article did you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) You didn't read the article did you. Yes I did. Why should I read more and dig deeper when the numbers are so faulty. Surveyors? Maybe in 1968. Most of what I used to do is now contracted out. When I started as a surveyor in the early 1990's I was making 12,000 a year. Where the eff do they come up with this crap? Like Mag said... Facts suck . I guess I do get paid more... I am classified as an operating engineer in which I get paid less than the private sector... Then again, unlike operating engineers in the private sector we do "All duties as assigned.' So that mean we can be janitors too... Heck, I have even cooked (not as good as you) for the crew too from time to time. I guess they classify me a janitor then... Which of course I make more. See, one can play around enough with numbers soas to tell one side of the story. What gets me is all these years during the boom times nobody said how sucky it was to get paid by the Fed... Now it is bad times and they all want in. Edited March 14, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 With the web you can find any facts you want. Federalworkersmakeless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) Having never been in a Union I'm interested to know what things the union does for you that you appreciate? Excellent benefit package and a pretty decent wage. That's about it. Edited March 14, 2011 by Marauder24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Wow... Again.. Like Tom said... I bet the fat cats in my agency are laughing... See how we do all the real work and get paid less than average. Then again, how many few fed employees are "pulling" the average way up like that? I know nobody that makes that much! Could that be the "golden tier" employees are making just that much more... Totally blowing the working stiff out of the water? Wait...what'd I say? Cash-wise, I make more as a contractor than a fed employee. But after all the benefits are added in...a federal employee has a higher overall compesation, I'm pretty sure. Which is exactly why the government uses contractors - I'm "cheaper", in that they can employ me on an as-needed basis without worrying about the overhead of benefits and such. In reality, it's probably more...because now in addition to managing the work, the government also has to manage the program (i.e. not only supply managerial oversight of the technical performance, but supply oversight of the contract performance as well). So basically, in employing "me" (the company I work for, really), they save money on the workers, but roughly double (or more) their management expense. In short: it ain't the amount they're paid that's the problem, it's that there's so bloody much more of them than there really needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Having never been in a Union I'm interested to know what things the union does for you that you appreciate? When I was 19 years old I was working at UPS loading trucks at night. It was required to be in the Union. I paid $300 to get in, taken out of 6 weeks of pay checks @ $50 pops. Then paid $45 the first of every month. When I worked too hard I was told that I need to make sure I protect my body, understand the flow of the business and more importantly realize that I am "jeopardizing the safety of others." By safety they did not mean a threat of injury but the threat of noticing they suck. So, eventually, like many 19 year olds I did something stupid and deserved to get fired...maybe worse. Either way, the Union rep (some 50 yr old life time worker) wanted me to fight the case because they would provide representatives to the company and fight for my job despite me being in the wrong. I ended up quiting that night not really caring either way. I also was a cashier in college at a grocery store and that was the UFCW and it really was not that bad...you just had to pay the money and no one bothered you. At UPS you'd get mailers all the time, be encouraged to go to rally's, picket WalMart, Giant Eagle, etc, as well as read the BS they published. UPS' union was huge and they didn't do anything to me that made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 With the web you can find any facts you want. Federalworkersmakeless Exactly. Here is somthing that is telliing and really obvious to any observer: "BLS’ report also found different pay disparities based on an employees’ level, with higher-paid executives experiencing a larger wage gap than lower-paid employees, who may earn more than those in the private sector, the Post states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I do agree with this... I have been saying it my whole career. As a fed employee... I would love to be making more and have better benny's! :thumbsup: Aren't you the one that tends to claim that money isn't important to you? How do you reconcile that with the above statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Aren't you the one that tends to claim that money isn't important to you? How do you reconcile that with the above statement? The only thing consistent about EII's posts is his inconsistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 When I was 19 years old I was working at UPS loading trucks at night. It was required to be in the Union. I paid $300 to get in, taken out of 6 weeks of pay checks @ $50 pops. Then paid $45 the first of every month. When I worked too hard I was told that I need to make sure I protect my body, understand the flow of the business and more importantly realize that I am "jeopardizing the safety of others." By safety they did not mean a threat of injury but the threat of noticing they suck. So, eventually, like many 19 year olds I did something stupid and deserved to get fired...maybe worse. Either way, the Union rep (some 50 yr old life time worker) wanted me to fight the case because they would provide representatives to the company and fight for my job despite me being in the wrong. I ended up quiting that night not really caring either way. I also was a cashier in college at a grocery store and that was the UFCW and it really was not that bad...you just had to pay the money and no one bothered you. At UPS you'd get mailers all the time, be encouraged to go to rally's, picket WalMart, Giant Eagle, etc, as well as read the BS they published. UPS' union was huge and they didn't do anything to me that made sense. The city workers where I live went on strike for about two months a few years back and they started to pile garbage on the city hall lawn as well as at the Mayor's and city councillor's houses. The idiots settled on a 1% increase which didn't even cover half of what they had lost. The mayor won the next election in an unprecedented landslide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Aren't you the one that tends to claim that money isn't important to you? How do you reconcile that with the above statement? Yes, I am indifferent... But I will take more when it is easy pickings. I ain't a fool. Easy come, easy go... I am still gonna get caught up in the trappings from time to time... I am only human. The only thing consistent about EII's posts is his inconsistency. Not everything is black and white either DC... There are always shades of gray. I really believe that is the hardest thing for some more than others (given their political and social viewpoint) to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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