Bills 1st rd drafting history on front 7 of defense

[Captain Hindsight]

Thank you for the comments and criticism, everybody. Keep 'em coming!

 

I'd like to address a couple points that have come up...

 

Regarding the Cousineau draft pick, it WAS a busted pick. Yes, it eventually gave us the 14th overall in 1983 that turned into Kelly, but who's to say that the Bills wouldn't have taken Kelly at 12th overall instead of Tony Hunter if they knew they didn't also have the 14th pick? And was Cousineau really that much of a success with the Browns? I'd expect a LOT more from the 1st overall pick. Captain Hindsight would say that the Bills should have picked Dan Hampton (or Joe Montana, actually, but that would have been too controversial at the time).

 

Also, I was NOT attempting to hold Nix and Co. accountable for the poor DL and LB drafting of the past 51 years. This was more of a "FYI/FWIW" and "Bills in general suck" type of post with no specific agenda. The only person who can ultimately be blamed for this is Ralph Wilson. None of us have any idea how long any of the current team scouts have had their jobs here, but they certainly have not been around with the team for as long as Ralph has.

 

However, it might actually be fair to blame the current scouting team on the Maybin, McCargo, and even Flowers picks. All three were probably recent enough. So what lessons can be learned from these mistakes? Let's review:

 

1. Flowers - classic "workout warrior" who skyrocketed up draft boards much farther than the game film would have suggested.

 

2. McCargo - played on the same line as Mario Williams (1st overall) and Manny Lawson (22nd overall), so I'm guessing those two made McCargo look much better in college than he actually was.

 

3. Maybin - only had a few really good games against smallish OT's as a sophomore, and he was also - erroneously - projected to gain enough bulk to play 4-3 DE despite having the natural shoulder frame and torso of a WR.

 

So basically, PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE GAME FILM. Pay attention not just to the player's performance, but to the teammates around him and the competition he's playing against.

That is why i am here

[truth on hold]

Dont forget Ngata and Orakpo.

Ngata had questions about surgerically repaired knee

[K-9]

... Regarding the Cousineau draft pick, it WAS a busted pick. Yes, it eventually gave us the 14th overall in 1983 that turned into Kelly, but who's to say that the Bills wouldn't have taken Kelly at 12th overall instead of Tony Hunter if they knew they didn't also have the 14th pick? And was Cousineau really that much of a success with the Browns? I'd expect a LOT more from the 1st overall pick. Captain Hindsight would say that the Bills should have picked Dan Hampton (or Joe Montana, actually, but that would have been too controversial at the time)....

 

I was being a bit facetious about the Cousineau pick. There was no way of knowing at the time of the trade who the Bills were targeting in the '83 draft.

 

While hindsight is certainly 20/20 it's pretty fair to say the Bills wouldn't have taken Kelly at 12 simply because they didn't at the time. Unless they thought the Lions were going to take Hunter if they didn't. Or if they knew for sure the Lions wouldn't take Kelly at 13. With an aging Gary Danielson as the starter and the great Eric Hipple to back him up, would anyone have been surprised if the Lions DID take Kelly at 13?

 

As bad as the recent drafts have been we can't blame the current FO for Flowers. That was all on John Butler.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

I was being a bit facetious about the Cousineau pick. There was no way of knowing at the time of the trade who the Bills were targeting in the '83 draft.

 

While hindsight is certainly 20/20 it's pretty fair to say the Bills wouldn't have taken Kelly at 12 simply because they didn't at the time. Unless they thought the Lions were going to take Hunter if they didn't. Or if they knew for sure the Lions wouldn't take Kelly at 13. With an aging Gary Danielson as the starter and the great Eric Hipple to back him up, would anyone have been surprised if the Lions DID take Kelly at 13?

 

As bad as the recent drafts have been we can't blame the current FO for Flowers. That was all on John Butler.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Actually, Buddy Nix was part of that front office.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Can't hold the the current regime responsible?

 

How about the Ralph Wilson regime?

 

Can he blame it on the previous owner?

 

 

 

I don't believe that Ralph has been telling them who to draft all these years. I can't picture him saying "You bastards are choosing Erik Flowers or your FIRED!". I think it's been the GM's and Head Coaches that have had the most influence.

[twist_to_open]

Dropped some major ststs out there tough guy....some interesting facts. Nice job.

[K-9]

Actually, Buddy Nix was part of that front office.

 

True. But Nix was a Southeast region college scout at the time and wouldn't have had a direct hand in evaluating Flowers, let alone suggest the Bills draft him. Scouts have very little say on draft day. Flowers was a Butler/Philips pick. Not that it matters.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

True. But Nix was a Southeast region college scout at the time and wouldn't have had a direct hand in evaluating Flowers, let alone suggest the Bills draft him. Scouts have very little say on draft day. Flowers was a Butler/Philips pick. Not that it matters.

 

GO BILLS!!!

And Erik Flowers played at Arizona State in the PAC-10.

[San-O]

1. It's not just the front 7. The Bills suck at drafting.

2. Only 3 QBs were drafting in the first round and only 0 with the first pick of the first round in the superbowl era.

3. The Bills really suck at drafting.

4. A TwoBillsDrive consensus poll will draft better than the Bills FO. The Bills really suck at drafting.

 

 

+ 1

[Pete]

I would absolutely load up on DL and front 7 this draft. So much so, I would have zero problem if we devoted every pick to defense. Load up on DL while it is deep and be set for years to come at that position

[Sisyphean Bills]

True. But Nix was a Southeast region college scout at the time and wouldn't have had a direct hand in evaluating Flowers, let alone suggest the Bills draft him. Scouts have very little say on draft day. Flowers was a Butler/Philips pick. Not that it matters.

I did write a "part of" intentionally. On the other hand, other posters have argued that all the good decisions Butler and then Smith made over the years were orchestrated from behind the scenes by Nix.

[San-O]

I would absolutely load up on DL and front 7 this draft. So much so, I would have zero problem if we devoted every pick to defense. Load up on DL while it is deep and be set for years to come at that position

 

 

I would love for them to do this, I think it's called a positional draft: Go D-line which is deep, early and often, mixing a couple

LB selections if the value is there.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Actually, Buddy Nix was part of that front office.

 

True. But Nix was a Southeast region college scout at the time and wouldn't have had a direct hand in evaluating Flowers, let alone suggest the Bills draft him. Scouts have very little say on draft day. Flowers was a Butler/Philips pick. Not that it matters.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

And Erik Flowers played at Arizona State in the PAC-10.

 

I did write a "part of" intentionally. On the other hand, other posters have argued that all the good decisions Butler and then Smith made over the years were orchestrated from behind the scenes by Nix.

Nix has gotten a lot of credit for AJ Smith's work in San Diego. That makes sense as Nix was Assistant General Manager AND Director of Player Personnel in San Diego.

 

I don't remember any posts giving Nix credit for Butler's drafts in Buffalo. Nix was only the Southeast Regional Scout at the time.

 

During Nix's earlier time in Buffalo under John Butler, Dwight Adams was the Director of Player Personnel and A.J. Smith was Assistant Director of College Scouting and then Director of Pro Personnel.

 

So in Buddy Nix's earlier time in Buffalo, he was a regional scout working below a three-person personnel department.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Nix has gotten a lot of credit for AJ Smith's work in San Diego. That makes sense as Nix was Assistant General Manager AND Director of Player Personnel in San Diego.

 

I don't remember any posts giving Nix credit for Butler's drafts in Buffalo. Nix was only the Southeast Regional Scout at the time.

 

During Nix's earlier time in Buffalo under John Butler, Dwight Adams was the Director of Player Personnel and A.J. Smith was Assistant Director of College Scouting and then Director of Pro Personnel.

 

So in Buddy Nix's earlier time in Buffalo, he was a regional scout working below a three-person personnel department.

Thanks for taking the time to post facts I already knew and had never questioned.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

As bad as the recent drafts have been we can't blame the current FO for Flowers. That was all on John Butler.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Actually, Buddy Nix was part of that front office.

 

And Erik Flowers played at Arizona State in the PAC-10.

 

I did write a "part of" intentionally. On the other hand, other posters have argued that all the good decisions Butler and then Smith made over the years were orchestrated from behind the scenes by Nix.

 

Nix has gotten a lot of credit for AJ Smith's work in San Diego. That makes sense as Nix was Assistant General Manager AND Director of Player Personnel in San Diego.

 

I don't remember any posts giving Nix credit for Butler's drafts in Buffalo. Nix was only the Southeast Regional Scout at the time.

 

During Nix's earlier time in Buffalo under John Butler, Dwight Adams was the Director of Player Personnel and A.J. Smith was Assistant Director of College Scouting and then Director of Pro Personnel.

 

So in Buddy Nix's earlier time in Buffalo, he was a regional scout working below a three-person personnel department.

 

Thanks for taking the time to post facts I already knew and had never questioned.

You're welcome.

 

It seemed like you were either blaming Buddy Nix for playing a part in drafting Erik Flowers or blaming Bills fans who want to believe that Nix did a good job in San Diego.

 

But you didn't actually come out and say either. You only implied it. So I'm sorry.

Edited February 22, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[C.Biscuit97]

The history of drafting d-linemen in the 1st is filled with busts for every team. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=DL&type=position

 

Breaking news: drafting 20 to 23 year old college kids isn't an exact science, no matter how much hindsight people try to use.

[Sisyphean Bills]

You're welcome.

 

It seemed like you were either blaming Buddy Nix for playing a part in drafting Erik Flowers or blaming Bills fans who want to believe that Nix did a good job in San Diego.

 

But you didn't actually come out and say either. You only implied it. So I'm sorry.

No, I never suggested nor indicated he was responsible for Erik Flowers.

 

I merely was pointing out that Nix was part of the organization at that time. A fact that is inarguable and which you never disputed (nor anyone else for that matter).

 

Nix almost certainly scouted Tillman, Moore, and Black personally. He may have scouted or helped scout Morris and Larsen as well. So, the absolute statement that no one currently with the Bills had anything to do with the disaster of the 2000 draft is factually and technically incorrect.

 

I've never blamed the fans for the state of the Bills. I've never blamed fans for the players the Bills select on draft day. The fans simply don't make the big decisions. Actually, I've always defended my fellow fans when they are baselessly attacked and blamed for causing a dysfunctional team.

 

I did point out that some posters in their general zeal to cast a positive spin on the Nix hiring had quite intentionally praised him for everything that had gone right in San Diego (and some did reference his previous work in Buffalo as helping to build the Super Bowl teams). Some may think that is fair and that Nix was the "real brains" behind the Chargers organization, but I'm a bit more skeptical than that. Everyone has a right to their opinion on that point; I'm not claiming they don't. But there is an inherent hypocrisy in giving one person all the credit for everything that is considered good and another person all the blame for everything that is considered less than good all the same. Regardless, Nix is now the guy with his neck on the block in Buffalo. Maybe his own Assistant GM will even be able to save it for him.

 

We're cool now.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Thanks for replying Sisyphous.

 

I posted earlier that if you're gonna give Nix blame in one area, you have to give him credit too. There are posters here who want to blame him for the Maybin selection but don't want to give him credit for the drafting in San Diego. It was another way of saying what you said in your most recent post:

 

"But there is an inherent hypocrisy in giving one person all the credit for everything that is considered good and another person all the blame for everything that is considered less than good all the same."

 

There is a hypocrisy in blaming Nix for Maybin (when Nix was a scout) and not allowing that he had a strong positive effect on San Diego's drafts (when he was Assistant GM).

 

I don't really know how Nix will do as GM. I'm hopeful but it's been a mixed bag so far. On the other hand, no one is infallible…every organization has bad years…and it's too early to paint Nix as a failure, as some people here are willing to do.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

The history of drafting d-linemen in the 1st is filled with busts for every team. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=DL&type=position

 

Breaking news: drafting 20 to 23 year old college kids isn't an exact science, no matter how much hindsight people try to use.

 

I think people should look over that list. So many top 10 busts that were as hyped as the current crop (and now the signing bonuses are really out of hand). There is big bust waiting to happen among Bowers, Fairley, Dareus, etc. Let's hope the Bills draft wisely.

 

BPA!

[San-O]

The history of drafting d-linemen in the 1st is filled with busts for every team. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=DL&type=position

 

Breaking news: drafting 20 to 23 year old college kids isn't an exact science, no matter how much hindsight people try to use.

 

 

Right. The Bills are just so consistently worse than everyone else at it. You'd think they'd figure it out, but they don't.