bowery4 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I like Joe's opinions on this and hope that Nix is thinking the same way. As with the Spiller pick you pick him to be a playmaker (I know hows that working for ya? lol, honestly I think it will in time though). Okay we know it isn't truly a position of need, unless you consider playmaker as just that: POSITION of need. Lets face it there is no Suh, there is no Bradford, if Patterson is the number 2 ranked player and he is there but Green is gone you go by what you have him ranked at. The Bills have screwed up too many of these picks because they didn't BPA the pick and went too much for need. If Fairly is there and they rank him in the top 3, you take him. There are 1st round picks every year (and this year since we have a high one the odds of not effing it up are higher), we need to start hitting on them. Then we won't be looking back and saying the Bills can't draft. We need the safe pick which is BPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 One thing to consider here...... - A lot of people are calling this a deep defensive draft.....and we do in fact draft at nearly the top of every round........ - If Green truly is that good he will in fact make the QB position better - It only makes sense if we plan on trading Lee Evans...... - We literally could use that top pick on a impact offensive threat and then spend every other pick on defense.....I dont want any of the OL out of this draft after watching that senior bowl. - 1st....WR - 2nd.....DE - 3rd....LB - 3rd....(evans pick) LB - 4th.....DL - 4th......S In free agency TE and OL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 One thing to consider here...... - A lot of people are calling this a deep defensive draft.....and we do in fact draft at nearly the top of every round........ - If Green truly is that good he will in fact make the QB position better - It only makes sense if we plan on trading Lee Evans...... - We literally could use that top pick on a impact offensive threat and then spend every other pick on defense.....I dont want any of the OL out of this draft after watching that senior bowl. - 1st....WR - 2nd.....DE - 3rd....LB - 3rd....(evans pick) LB - 4th.....DL - 4th......S In free agency TE and OL If there is no CBA b4 the draft that aint happening, also no TE? Fa is loaded with good TEs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Let's say (for the sake of argument) that he's the next Larry Fitzgerald. If we take him and keep him here his whole career, then ten years from now no one will point to that draft pick as a bad decision. (Any more than Cards fans point to the Fitzgerald pick as a bad move.) I don't necessarily agree with this. The idea is to build a football team that is capable of winning football games. If in 10 years Green has Larry Fitzgerald numbers and the Bills are still consistently losing, what difference does it make how great he is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I don't necessarily agree with this. The idea is to build a football team that is capable of winning football games. If in 10 years Green has Larry Fitzgerald numbers and the Bills are still consistently losing, what difference does it make how great he is? Your reasoning is perplexing. If Green turns out to be an exceptinal player then his draft pick is not a mistake. How can it be anything but a successful pick. If the Bills continue to lose it will be because they continue to not draft well and not make sound personnel decisions. As with Spiller, drafting a top five or 10 player in a spot where they are ranked is not a mistake. There are other draft rounds and free agency options to address other needs. (However,trade and free agent acquisitions might be closed because of the CBA situation.) I think you are being very premature on judging the Spiller pick and letting it cloud how you would approach this draft. Almost everyone agrees with you that to build a good team you have to focus on the lines on both sides of the ball and then address the skill positions. Where I differ from you is that when you get an opportunity to select an impact player you should seize the opportunity. There are so few of those type of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I think you are being very premature on judging the Spiller pick and letting it cloud how you would approach this draft. The Spiller pick? Please. How about Losman, Evans, MaGahee, Whitner, McKelvin, and Lynch? History tells the story. Do you not see that the Bills used their best resources on small, skill players and it failed. Even Maybin loosely fell into this category as a 225 pound defensive end. Our receivers were ok last season under the circumstances, those being a poor offensive line, and a non-elite quarterback (and this isn't an attack on Fitz, who I would classify as good). Why go there with a #3. Are you of the mindset that Whitner was a good value at #8 because he makes a lot of tackles? Also, why do you think is the biggest reason for the Bills losing games for the last 10 or so years? And as far as the Spiller pick, yes, it was idiotic to select a part time, small player to run behind a weak offensive line. This with the #9 selection of a draft. To make things worse, they sprinted up to the podium and grabbed him as if he was Marshall Faulk sans the credentials. And, rb was one of the few positions at which they didn't really suck. Green Bay filled this position in round 6 with a player from our backyard. Again, the idea of a draft imo is to build a team that can win, not to seek out flashy ticket sellers who may or may not (ala Spiller) put up good numbers good and while the team is losing. Sorry, I prefer winning football games. I hope we can agree to disagree, and sadly, I would not be at all surprised if they go your way and draft Green or even Peterson. And of course continue to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 On ESPN last week they showed of the number of Defensive linemen to make an impact in the top of the lottery and there wasnt many.... our defense was bad for a number of reasons but one being unable to move the changes on offense, and then when we did finally start to click on offense we had a number of injuried players of defense....we can cry about Whitner,Cargo,and Maybin but they werent taken this or current front office leads....And Spiller isnt the first RB to have a slow start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I don't necessarily agree with this. The idea is to build a football team that is capable of winning football games. If in 10 years Green has Larry Fitzgerald numbers and the Bills are still consistently losing, what difference does it make how great he is? We can be proud of ourselves for having the next Andre Johnson, or Eric Moulds. That's worth a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Jared Allen ws in Kansas City having 15 and 16 sack season were they winning? ..... and what has Mario Williams Done vs Reggie Bush? looking at it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) The Spiller pick? Please. How about Losman, Evans, MaGahee, Whitner, McKelvin, and Lynch? History tells the story. Do you not see that the Bills used their best resources on small, skill players and it failed. Even Maybin loosely fell into this category as a 225 pound defensive end. Our receivers were ok last season under the circumstances, those being a poor offensive line, and a non-elite quarterback (and this isn't an attack on Fitz, who I would classify as good). Why go there with a #3. Are you of the mindset that Whitner was a good value at #8 because he makes a lot of tackles? Also, why do you think is the biggest reason for the Bills losing games for the last 10 or so years? And as far as the Spiller pick, yes, it was idiotic to select a part time, small player to run behind a weak offensive line. This with the #9 selection of a draft. To make things worse, they sprinted up to the podium and grabbed him as if he was Marshall Faulk sans the credentials. And, rb was one of the few positions at which they didn't really suck. Green Bay filled this position in round 6 with a player from our backyard. Again, the idea of a draft imo is to build a team that can win, not to seek out flashy ticket sellers who may or may not (ala Spiller) put up good numbers good and while the team is losing. Sorry, I prefer winning football games. I hope we can agree to disagree, and sadly, I would not be at all surprised if they go your way and draft Green or even Peterson. And of course continue to lose. ummm, McCargo? Mike Williams? Small skill players? And McGahee may have been at a skill position, but at 6'2" 225 lbs he sure wasn't "small." Edited February 1, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 One thing to consider here...... - A lot of people are calling this a deep defensive draft.....and we do in fact draft at nearly the top of every round........ - If Green truly is that good he will in fact make the QB position better - It only makes sense if we plan on trading Lee Evans...... Gaaah. Sorry John, nothing about your post...it's the Bills pattern of trading or letting a good player leave in FA, creating a hole, then drafting someone for that hole. Meanwhile unmet needs never to be filled smother us at ever turn. Green may be everything everyone says he is and he won't do us a bit of good if plays don't have time to develop b'cuz our QB gets killed behind a poor OL. I hope to h*** Fitz knee heals b'cuz his legs and his stopwatch head are all that are keeping him alive right now. - We literally could use that top pick on a impact offensive threat and then spend every other pick on defense.....I dont want any of the OL out of this draft after watching that senior bowl. Perhaps the OL in the Senior Bowl looked bad because....this is a great year to draft a dominant defensive player? OL: Carimi. (He didn't play in the Senior Bowl). He won't fall to the 2nd and I don't think he's a #3 pick, but I can dream, can't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 The Spiller pick? Please. How about Losman, Evans, MaGahee, Whitner, McKelvin, and Lynch? History tells the story. Do you not see that the Bills used their best resources on small, skill players and it failed. Even Maybin loosely fell into this category as a 225 pound defensive end. Your above mentioned picks are not good picks simply because they were not worthy players drafted at where they were drafted. I don't care where Losman was drafted, he is not a franchise qb and never will be. He was misjudged as a player. Whitner never should have been drafted at where he was taken. Ngata certainly should have been, not only because of need but because he was more highly rated by every other organization but this clown organization. The Whitner pick was an odd pick. There is no justification for it other than incompetence. The Lynch pick was influenced by the owner when the organization let McGahee go because he was troublesome and they were not going to meet his contract expectations. Donahoe selected an injured McGahee when he already had quality backs on the roster because he wanted to prove to the rest of the world how smart and innovative he was. McKelvin has a dollar physical talent and a nickel mind. The worst attribute a CB can have is being erratic. He is outstandingly erratic. My point is basically they were not bad picks because of the positions they played, they were bad picks because they were simply bad player selections. I fundamentally agree with you that the Bills don't have an understanding on how to build a team. There is no conceptual thinking when handling the draft. Where I am not going to agree with you is that if the team takes a player at the point in the draft where he is ranked I am not going to complain. The Ravens, for the most part, rank players and stay true to their board. What they do well is rank players, something our organization is incapable of doing. There should be no one on this board who thinks that I believe that the Bills have been nothing less than inept in how they draft. Being subtle is not one of my strong points. I hope we can agree to disagree, and sadly, I would not be at all surprised if they go your way and draft Green or even Peterson. And of course continue to lose. I may upset you even more. I favor drafting Newton with our first pick, ideally moving down to get some addtional picks. There comes a point where it is ludicrous that an organization for almost a generation can't secure a legitimate franchise qb. I guess I can say the same thing about the TE position and other positions. This organization can be maddening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 END OF TOPIC! You dont pass on a Play-Maker Game Breaker, i dont even see a kid like this coming out for the next several years that we may get in position to add to our roster WE did'nt pass on a Play-Maker Game Breaker last year CJ Spiller. If the Bills draft this guy they will suck for another five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 WE did'nt pass on a Play-Maker Game Breaker last year CJ Spiller. If the Bills draft this guy they will suck for another five years. The Spiller pick wasnt a bad decision, the managing of Spiller and how he was used was poor.... AND IT WAS HIS FIRST YEAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Your above mentioned picks are not good picks simply because they were not worthy players drafted at where they were drafted. I don't care where Losman was drafted, he is not a franchise qb and never will be. He was misjudged as a player. Whitner never should have been drafted at where he was taken. Ngata certainly should have been, not only because of need but because he was more highly rated by every other organization but this clown organization. The Whitner pick was an odd pick. There is no justification for it other than incompetence. The Lynch pick was influenced by the owner when the organization let McGahee go because he was troublesome and they were not going to meet his contract expectations. Donahoe selected an injured McGahee when he already had quality backs on the roster because he wanted to prove to the rest of the world how smart and innovative he was. McKelvin has a dollar physical talent and a nickel mind. The worst attribute a CB can have is being erratic. He is outstandingly erratic. My point is basically they were not bad picks because of the positions they played, they were bad picks because they were simply bad player selections. I fundamentally agree with you that the Bills don't have an understanding on how to build a team. There is no conceptual thinking when handling the draft. Where I am not going to agree with you is that if the team takes a player at the point in the draft where he is ranked I am not going to complain. The Ravens, for the most part, rank players and stay true to their board. What they do well is rank players, something our organization is incapable of doing. There should be no one on this board who thinks that I believe that the Bills have been nothing less than inept in how they draft. Being subtle is not one of my strong points. I may upset you even more. I favor drafting Newton with our first pick, ideally moving down to get some addtional picks. There comes a point where it is ludicrous that an organization for almost a generation can't secure a legitimate franchise qb. I guess I can say the same thing about the TE position and other positions. This organization can be maddening! Again, we seem to agree more than it would appear. Here is a question: If half of the busts listed above were good players, do you think that the Bills would be a playoff team? I for one do not. They simply lack the strong, solid foundation. As for Newton, I have not seen enough of him to form a pertinent opinion. If they think that he will be great, I am not against them drafting him, Mallett, or any qb who could be a top 10 in this league. But after doing so, they have to find players who make the team bigger and stronger. That, or teams will continue to run all over us and dominate our OL, which is the blueprint for losing football games. This we have already proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Again, we seem to agree more than it would appear. Here is a question: If half of the busts listed above were good players, do you think that the Bills would be a playoff team? I for one do not. They simply lack the strong, solid foundation. As for Newton, I have not seen enough of him to form a pertinent opinion. If they think that he will be great, I am not against them drafting him, Mallett, or any qb who could be a top 10 in this league. But after doing so, they have to find players who make the team bigger and stronger. That, or teams will continue to run all over us and dominate our OL, which is the blueprint for losing football games. This we have already proven. btw, both teams in the Super Bowl have Olines that are considered a weakness. And neither has a dominant defensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 btw, both teams in the Super Bowl have Olines that are considered a weakness. And neither has a dominant defensive line. Is this you Mr. Jauron? And btw, all of their lines are better than ours, as are both lines of every playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 btw, both teams in the Super Bowl have Olines that are considered a weakness. And neither has a dominant defensive line. simply we need to build our own idenity and have a little luck like both teams that are currently in the super bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Is this you Mr. Jauron? And btw, all of their lines are better than ours, as are both lines of every playoff team. I wouldnt be so insecure as a Bills fan and make that automatic concession. If Carrigton and Troupe show solid progression in their 2nd season, adding them to Williams and the others we have, our Dline is just as good if not better than either. (It's the linebackers where we compare dreadfully.) Same can be said for the OLine. and btw, although I did like his defensive philosophy, I hated everything else about Jauron. Apparently the league agrees with me since he landed a DC job with a successful GM. Edited February 1, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I would kill for gb or pitt's def line...hampton, hood, smith, keisel....raji, pickett, jenkins...any one of those guys would start on our def line. drafting aj green i believe would be a mistake. he may very well be the best player in this draft but he wouldn't help build our team for the future. we need to build a team that is balanced and effective in all aspects of the game. we are pretty strong at the wr position at the moment and very weak on our defense line and lb position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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