C.J. Spiller

[DDD]

10-touch per game situational back. Everyone wants to crucify me every time I've said it (and I've been saying it since the draft). Would be a decent pick for a good team. For a bad team in need of a superstar, it just wasn't a sound selection.

 

Agreed. As much as the Bills need a superstar, I'd take a solid everydown player at this point instead of a situational back.

[Wagon Circler]

I'm not saying the guy's a bust or that he won't get better.

I'm saying that as the number 9 pick, the guy has had no impact. 1 kickoff return. What else has he done?

Vision is something you either have or you don't. It's not something you learn. I don't see any reason to believe he has it.

[PromoTheRobot]

I'm not saying the guy's a bust or that he won't get better.

I'm saying that as the number 9 pick, the guy has had no impact. 1 kickoff return. What else has he done?

Vision is something you either have or you don't. It's not something you learn. I don't see any reason to believe he has it.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

 

PTR

[Punch]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read.

 

PTR

 

Spiller obviously has those instincts... he can, and likely will, learn to trust them more. That's a normal problem for rookie runningbacks to have, and why so many people in this thread and elsewhere are in such a hurry to label him as either a bust or luxury pick or whatever nonsense is simply beyond reason.

 

He's a dynamic offensive talent and his contribution to this team will grow as his experience increases. The fact that Gailey is developing him deliberately rather than hurriedly is an indictment of nothing more than solid coaching.

[KOKBILLS]

Vision is something you either have or you don't. It's not something you learn. I don't see any reason to believe he has it.

 

Well it's impossible to look at his College Highlight Tape and think the Kid does not have vision...I think it's a matter of Coaching right now and breaking some instincts that are a bit hard-wired for good reason...CJ's kind of had it easy before he got to the NFL simply because he's so talented and naturally gifted...But it's a different Game now and he has to adjust...

 

I'm not too worried about what I see right now from Spiller...I think he'll be just fine...Whether or not The Bills should have used the #9 Pick on him...well...That's a whole different story...

[ganesh]

How come other teams' high draft selections don't need time to adjust to the pro game? Home come Jahvid Best and Ryan Matthews, both selected after C.J. Spiller, don't need time to adjust to the pro game?

 

Why do all of our draft selections always need years to mature like a fine wine, while year after year after year after year teams get huge impact from their rookies?

 

May be that is the drafting strategy and that is why we suck....We seem to take people either out of position or draft them for their potential....The only player who seemed to have come in and started and fitted well in was Marshawn Lynch and Lee Evans...Poz is close, but with all the injuries, it is hard to tell.

 

McCargo, Losman, Maybin, McKelvin, Troup, Carrington and the list goes on....

 

I believe Spiller is ready....Gailey just hasn't played him to his strengths....As for blockig, none of the rookie RBs are every really good at picking the blitz in their rookie season.

[BB Fan 4 LIFE]

Spiller obviously has those instincts... he can, and likely will, learn to trust them more. That's a normal problem for rookie runningbacks to have, and why so many people in this thread and elsewhere are in such a hurry to label him as either a bust or luxury pick or whatever nonsense is simply beyond reason.

 

He's a dynamic offensive talent and his contribution to this team will grow as his experience increases. The fact that Gailey is developing him deliberately rather than hurriedly is an indictment of nothing more than solid coaching.

 

 

Even though I admittedly posted these stats elsewhere, I have to repost it here to point out the absurdity of the "deliberate" portion of your comment. Given the choice, I'd rather have a RB who was good, than "developing".

 

Just the facts:

 

Name. Rushing att. (1st 5 games)

 

Thurman Thomas. 77

Barry Sanders. 67

Willis McGahee. 61

Adrian Peterson. 96

Chris Johnson. 85

 

Group Average 77.2

 

C.J. Spiller. 19

 

Raw carries below average = 58.2

 

Percent carries below average = 75.3%

[Punch]

Even though I admittedly posted these stats elsewhere, I have to repost it here to point out the absurdity of the "deliberate" portion of your comment. Given the choice, I'd rather have a RB who was good, than "developing".

 

Just the facts:

 

Name. Rushing att. (1st 5 games)

 

Thurman Thomas. 77

Barry Sanders. 67

Willis McGahee. 61

Adrian Peterson. 96

Chris Johnson. 85

 

Group Average 77.2

 

C.J. Spiller. 19

 

Raw carries below average = 58.2

 

Percent carries below average = 75.3%

 

I don't think number of carries necessarily equates to the quality of the back, do they? Especially in this situation? "Developing" is something that every NFL player does, and the way Gailey is doing it is fine. Sorry it's not to your taste, but your stats kind of prove nothing.

[BB Fan 4 LIFE]

I don't think number of carries necessarily equates to the quality of the back, do they? Especially in this situation? "Developing" is something that every NFL player does, and the way Gailey is doing it is fine. Sorry it's not to your taste, but your stats kind of prove nothing.

 

It proves nothing, it does however, show that other good backs have been "developed" when they came out of college.

 

According to your analysis, Spiller was not.

 

Which begs the question of why we drafted him at #9 if he wasn't developed?

 

Upside? See, Maybin.

 

We need to stop it with the upside and draft a guy who can start.

[Punch]

It proves nothing, it does however, show that other good backs have been "developed" when they came out of college.

 

According to your analysis, Spiller was not.

 

Which begs the question of why we drafted him at #9 if he wasn't developed?

 

Upside? See, Maybin.

 

We need to stop it with the upside and draft a guy who can start.

 

I understand what you're saying, but Spiller is not in the same career situation that Maybin finds himself in--- Spiller has made plays as a runner, receiver, blocker, and returner. He's averaging 4.3 yards per carry on his admittedly few number of attempts. If he were given 20 touches per game I think there's no question he'd produce very good results. When I say deliberately, I mean that he's being taught to focus on the finer points of being an all around NFL runningback--- blitz pickups being one major example of an area where he struggled. He's in the games in crucial situations, and is being asked to pick up blockers in the red zone and on 3rd downs.

 

I said earlier in this thread, the combination of teaching him the finer points, having Fred Jackson, and also not wanting to burn him out on an 0-6 team that was struggling offensively are part and parcel why he's limited behind Fred. I'd assume his touches and involvement will increase steadily over the course of the year. Chris Johnson was struggling this year due to overuse in the previous few seasons.

 

And Aaron Maybin has shown nothing yet that suggests he belongs on an NFL roster. There's simply no comparison.

[C.Biscuit97]

This OP is why I'm starting to hate message boards. Players only get 6 games to prove themselves now? What the !@#$ is wrong with some of you?

[starrymessenger]

Spiller has clearly not yet adjusted to the pro game. That may very well be why he is underutilized. He seems not to see the play developing and does not run to daylight. That is indeed something that great backs can do and is one of their principal attributes. Neither does he show patience in following his blocking.

He cannot rely on his superior athleticism alone in the pro ranks to beat defenders because the guys are simply so much better than in college.

I don't know whether its simply a matter of getting some experience. I don't pretend to know whether the "vision" or anticipation great backs have can be acquired or whether its instinctual - if I had to guess I would say instinctual. Either you've got it or you don't. Gale Sayers didn't learn it. He himself says it was God given. IMO same applies to Chris Johnson. I have not seen any of that from Spiller so far.

Obviously everyone on this board wants the kid to succeed big time, and maybe he will fulfill all expectations. However his demonstrated inability at this level to find (or create through directional changes)the holes bears watching and is a cause for concern. To say otherwise is just to bury one's head in the sand.

[C.Biscuit97]

Spiller has clearly not yet adjusted to the pro game. That may very well be why he is underutilized. He seems not to see the play developing and does not run to daylight. That is indeed something that great backs can do and is one of their principal attributes. Neither does he show patience in following his blocking.

He cannot rely on his superior athleticism alone in the pro ranks to beat defenders because the guys are simply so much better than in college.

I don't know whether its simply a matter of getting some experience. I don't pretend to know whether the "vision" or anticipation great backs have can be acquired or whether its instinctual - if I had to guess I would say instinctual. Either you've got it or you don't. Gale Sayers didn't learn it. He himself says it was God given. IMO same applies to Chris Johnson. I have not seen any of that from Spiller so far.

Obviously everyone on this board wants the kid to succeed big time, and maybe he will fulfill all expectations. However his demonstrated inability at this level to find (or create through directional changes)the holes bears watching and is a cause for concern. To say otherwise is just to bury one's head in the sand.

 

 

He's averaging the same ypc as Thurman and 0.4 ypc more than Emmitt Smith in their rookie years. Patience grasshoppers. There are a lot of plays where he is so close to breaking it. I have very little doubt he is going to be a star.

[Erik Flowers]

Maybin will come around soon just give him some time.

 

Come around and do what - sell you popcorn at the stadium now that he has been benched?

[Punch]

He's averaging the same ypc as Thurman and 0.4 ypc more than Emmitt Smith in their rookie years. Patience grasshoppers. There are a lot of plays where he is so close to breaking it. I have very little doubt he is going to be a star.

 

If he were getting more opportunities he'd undoubtedly break more than a few of those ones where he's now close--- the time will come, sooner than later, when he gets them. I don't know what the big rush is; runningback play would not alter the outcome of the first 6 games of 2010, and would definitely not be the difference in earning a playoff berth this year. But Spiller will be a more well rounded back by season's end than if he were just thrown to the wolves.

[Wagon Circler]

Spiller has clearly not yet adjusted to the pro game. That may very well be why he is underutilized. He seems not to see the play developing and does not run to daylight. That is indeed something that great backs can do and is one of their principal attributes. Neither does he show patience in following his blocking.

He cannot rely on his superior athleticism alone in the pro ranks to beat defenders because the guys are simply so much better than in college.

I don't know whether its simply a matter of getting some experience. I don't pretend to know whether the "vision" or anticipation great backs have can be acquired or whether its instinctual - if I had to guess I would say instinctual. Either you've got it or you don't. Gale Sayers didn't learn it. He himself says it was God given. IMO same applies to Chris Johnson. I have not seen any of that from Spiller so far.

Obviously everyone on this board wants the kid to succeed big time, and maybe he will fulfill all expectations. However his demonstrated inability at this level to find (or create through directional changes)the holes bears watching and is a cause for concern. To say otherwise is just to bury one's head in the sand.

Thank you

[C.Biscuit97]

If he were getting more opportunities he'd undoubtedly break more than a few of those ones where he's now close--- the time will come, sooner than later, when he gets them. I don't know what the big rush is; runningback play would not alter the outcome of the first 6 games of 2010, and would definitely not be the difference in earning a playoff berth this year. But Spiller will be a more well rounded back by season's end than if he were just thrown to the wolves.

 

 

The big rush is most football fans have the patience of 4 year olds. If you aren't dominating out of the box, people want to label you a bust. If you have a couple good games (or ever a very average half of a preseason game like Clausen), you're a star.

 

Hot pocket mentality. I WANT IT NOW!!!

[starrymessenger]

The big rush is most football fans have the patience of 4 year olds. If you aren't dominating out of the box, people want to label you a bust. If you have a couple good games (or ever a very average half of a preseason game like Clausen), you're a star.

 

Hot pocket mentality. I WANT IT NOW!!!

Everybody knows he is a rook. Everybody knows (and hopes) that he will get better with experience. I don't say he has got to be a worldbeater from the get go to be great. I'm saying there is a potential problem there that needs to be monitored. We all hope it resolves favourably, and it may indeed prove to be transitory, but to deny that it exists is plain flat wrong.

[Punch]

Everybody knows he is a rook. Everybody knows (and hopes) that he will get better with experience. I don't say he has got to be a worldbeater from the get go to be great. I'm saying there is a potential problem there that needs to be monitored. We all hope it resolves favourably, and it may indeed prove to be transitory, but to deny that it exists is plain flat wrong.

 

Any cursory observation of his college career or preseason work shows he has uncanny natural instincts. On some of his carries in the regular season so far I think he's hesitating a bit and picking the wrong hole, but he's shown plenty of flashes that indicates there isn't a major issue. I'm not really sure what devastating evidence you've uncovered to the contrary.

[Ozymandius]

Chris Johnson is much better than any other RB, including Spiller. He should never be the comparison even when Spiller starts to play better because nobody is going to touch 4.24 speed.

 

But Spiller for now is struggling and it's okay to point that out since everybody expected better. Hopefully he improves. Before the season started, no one could've imagined the Bills scoring 30 and putting up 500 on a good defense without Spiller playing a major role.