akm0404 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The thing is, he really is one of the problems, although most of it is not his fault. Donte symbolizes many problems this team has, such as poor coaching (Jauron), idiotic management (Levy) and misguided priorities. Also, Mr. Wilson is there to make a profit first and foremost. The money he shelled out to Donte could have been used to pay a high quality player, which Whitner just is not. There is no reason to be surprised when fans are frustrated watching a small, ineffective safety trying to cover a tight end when many players drafted at that slot actually produce. He tries hard and I appreciate that, but his production is that of an average player. Ok, so you're projecting your angst at the organizational failure of the Buffalo Bills onto a player who never asked to be selected where he did, and has tried his best to win and perform for the team. That actually very accurately reflects how people feel about Whitner, which I believe isn't fair or particularly well reasoned. Also, suggesting that "The money he shelled out to Donte" was any more or any less that ANY player selected in his draft slot would have earned is silly. Could the Bills have selected a different player? Yes. Would that player have been better? Maybe. Would that player have been worse? Maybe. Would that player have received an identical contract? Absolutely. Again, the round that Donte was selected in is now completely irrelevant. Saying that he would be good enough to play on this team if he were a 7th rounder, but not if he was a 1st rounder is just plain silly. He is good enough to play on this team, and he would see the field for many NFL-caliber franchises. Look to the players that, when cut, would never see the field in the NFL again. Those players are the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Since '86 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 I love how all you gnar kills are assuming coverages like your the DC.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 gnar kills Time to do some googling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Since '86 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The thing is, he really is one of the problems, although most of it is not his fault. Donte symbolizes many problems this team has, such as poor coaching (Jauron), idiotic management (Levy) and misguided priorities. Also, Mr. Wilson is there to make a profit first and foremost. The money he shelled out to Donte could have been used to pay a high quality player, which Whitner just is not. There is no reason to be surprised when fans are frustrated watching a small, ineffective safety trying to cover a tight end when many players drafted at that slot actually produce. He tries hard and I appreciate that, but his production is that of an average player. That makes no sense...stats are production...and stats say he is a top 10 tackler period... OHHH THEEE RUNN DEFENSEEEE...gimmie a break Time to do some googling... Fun way to call someone a RahTard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 That makes no sense...stats are production...and stats say he is a top 10 tackler period... OHHH THEEE RUNN DEFENSEEEE...gimmie a break I have to agree here. Also, where do you expect your safety to make most of his tackles? Behind the line of scrimmage? Come on now. They line up 20 yards deep, and are the literal last line of defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The best safeties in the league can play more aggressively because they know that even if they do not make the play, someone behind them will. Whitner has never had that luxury. I guess you'd rather have your SAFETY take more chances to break up more passes. On THIS team? Like is said before, ignant. And I love people faulting him for getting jocked by LT. Whitner, on his own with no help in the open field against a HOF running back with a GAPING HOLE in the front 7. Somehow, Whitner should guess right or fill that GAPING HOLE. You are so far off base, it's laughable. Go back to talking about Kelsay's extension or Stroud's fine suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Ok, so you're projecting your angst at the organizational failure of the Buffalo Bills onto a player who never asked to be selected where he did, and has tried his best to win and perform for the team. That actually very accurately reflects how people feel about Whitner, which I believe isn't fair or particularly well reasoned. Also, suggesting that "The money he shelled out to Donte" was any more or any less that ANY player selected in his draft slot would have earned is silly. Could the Bills have selected a different player? Yes. Would that player have been better? Maybe. Would that player have been worse? Maybe. Would that player have received an identical contract? Absolutely. Again, the round that Donte was selected in is now completely irrelevant. Saying that he would be good enough to play on this team if he were a 7th rounder, but not if he was a 1st rounder is just plain silly. He is good enough to play on this team, and he would see the field for many NFL-caliber franchises. Look to the players that, when cut, would never see the field in the NFL again. Those players are the problem. Look, nowhere did I suggest that he isn't good enough to play on this team. So are many sub-par players. I also never suggested that a different player drafted at that slot would earn less, and I have no idea why you are accusing me of saying this. What I am saying is that he is very average; a wasted pick at that slot. He gets smoked by tight ends and run over by Sammy Morris who isn't exactly Earl Campbell now is he? His off field behavior is also less than stellar. If Lil' Donte had better players up front would he make more plays? Almost certainly, as opposed the the ever so few he makes now. Crowing about a player who makes tackles after very long games is what is "silly," as is holding on against hope that he is, or ever will become a premier player. He will not. McKelvin was also a dumb pick but at least he can return a kick for a TD if they would let him. Whitner, while not a bad player, is not very good at any phase of football in terms of being an NFL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The best safeties in the league can play more aggressively because they know that even if they do not make the play, someone behind them will. Whitner has never had that luxury. I guess you'd rather have your SAFETY take more chances to break up more passes. On THIS team? Like is said before, ignant. And I love people faulting him for getting jocked by LT. Whitner, on his own with no help in the open field against a HOF running back with a GAPING HOLE in the front 7. Somehow, Whitner should guess right or fill that GAPING HOLE. You are so far off base, it's laughable. Go back to talking about Kelsay's extension or Stroud's fine suits. I don't really understand this point. What position lines up behind the safety? It's the safety, as you point out in the following sentence. The reason Donte doesn't produce is because he doesn't diagnose plays like the best ones do. He's always a buck short when it comes to coverage, waving his arm up at the last second because his head is turned. And yes, I do want my safety breaking up pass plays, especially on this team and especially because Donte believes he is capable of it himself. He reminds us of it quite often. Try not to give LT too much credit there either, Donte was juked plain and simple in a hole I wouldn't call gaping (when was the last time LT pulled that kind of move, 2-3 years ago?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) This a red badge of shame on our defense. Our defense has seen more running plays (190) than any other unit in the league. Our defense gives up the league's third highest yards per carry (4.8). The fact that a SAFETY leads our team in tackles means that we're using our last line of defense (the aptly named SAFETY) FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR too often to protect against rushing attacks which, for lack of better phrasing, have been relentless. Edited October 15, 2010 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 I don't really understand this point. What position lines up behind the safety? It's the safety, as you point out in the following sentence. The reason Donte doesn't produce is because he doesn't diagnose plays like the best ones do. He's always a buck short when it comes to coverage, waving his arm up at the last second because his head is turned. And yes, I do want my safety breaking up pass plays, especially on this team and especially because Donte believes he is capable of it himself. He reminds us of it quite often. Try not to give LT too much credit there either, Donte was juked plain and simple in a hole I wouldn't call gaping (when was the last time LT pulled that kind of move, 2-3 years ago?) He could cheat up, as great safeties do, if he knew he had help. If he knew the front 7 were doing their job, he could attmpt to make more plays. He has very little help. Look, nevermind. You guys are going to bury everyone on the team anyways. When you can't recognize GAPING HOLES in the Bills' 32nd ranked run defense and you want to hang TD's all on the safety who couldn't bail the line out 1 more time, I'm not going to convince you. Nor is anyone. Oh, in case you haven't noticed, LT looks great this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 He could cheat up, as great safeties do, if he knew he had help. If he knew the front 7 were doing their job, he could attmpt to make more plays. He has very little help. Look, nevermind. You guys are going to bury everyone on the team anyways. When you can't recognize GAPING HOLES in the Bills' 32nd ranked run defense and you want to hang TD's all on the safety who couldn't bail the line out 1 more time, I'm not going to convince you. Nor is anyone. Oh, in case you haven't noticed, LT looks great this year. You're right to absolve Whits of some of the blame. But make no mistake, this stat is far more negative than positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The thing is, he really is one of the problems, although most of it is not his fault. Donte symbolizes many problems this team has, such as poor coaching (Jauron), idiotic management (Levy) and misguided priorities. Also, Mr. Wilson is there to make a profit first and foremost. The money he shelled out to Donte could have been used to pay a high quality player, which Whitner just is not. There is no reason to be surprised when fans are frustrated watching a small, ineffective safety trying to cover a tight end when many players drafted at that slot actually produce. He tries hard and I appreciate that, but his production is that of an average player. Exactly... Saying Donte is not at least part of the problem, let alone a symbol for why the Bills suck so bad, is just ignoring the obvious for the sake of pointing out what may be more obvious...We can talk forever about the other problems on this Team...There are plenty...Are there areas worse than SS? Sure there are...Were any of those Players the #8 overall Draft Pick? Nope...Are any of those players the vocal leaders on their side of the ball? Not really...The only person on the team I will say is more of an example of what is wrong with the Bills, and has been wrong with the Bills for years now, is Kelsay...But that does not make the Whitner situation any better...I've said forever that Whitner is not to be blamed for the idiocy of Drafting him #8 Overall, but that does not mean we need to make excuses for him either...He's just not that good...If he was he would make a TON more plays on the field...It really is as simple as that...It's not about player-hating or any of that garbage...It's about the fact that the #8 overall player in the 2006 Draft is simply not much more or less than just there...He does not make a difference on the field any where near enough... All I'm saying is lets stop pretending that if this or that happens, and if whatever was this way, Whitner would somehow not be so bad...Or furthermore lets stop saying it's not a big deal cause he's not the biggest problem on what is a terrible NFL football team...He may very well not be the biggest problem...but it's a problem nonetheless...And that problem is compounded by the fact that he was a Top 10 Draft Pick.. I doubt very much Whitner is in the long term plans for this Organization due to his play and his play only...We'll see though...I hope by some sort of Gods Grace Donte can change my mind by the end of this year...I have serious doubts about that though...Very serious doubts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The fact that whitner is 9th in the league in tackles proves nothing other than the fact that our front seven is garbage and donte is tackling running backs after huge gains......he is terrible, don't even mention him and p willis in the same sentence......and if your not listening to the "whitner bashers" don't post anything about that joke of a safety........he looked real good against LT and the jets a few weeks ago However you want to color it, he's one of the best defenders on a bad team. No question about that. Not the best mind you, but one of the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 So......anyway..... I chatted with Lil' D this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 What I am saying is that he is very average Sweet. On the league's worst defense, we have a strong safety that is better than half of the strong safeties in the league. That probably makes him our best defensive player. CUT HIM NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Last year, I made a post about how I thought Keith Ellison was underappreciated because he was in the top 5 in the league in tackles after 5 or 6 weeks. You live and learn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 This again? If you take the starting D top to bottom he is at worst the 8th guy people should be worrying about changing, removing or replacing. If he were able to stop playing clean up linebacker out there we might get a better chance to see him play as a safety. Right now according to the stat sheet all he is doing is preventing about 8-12 more touchdowns per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 You're right to absolve Whits of some of the blame. But make no mistake, this stat is far more negative than positive. It's an ugly defense. The worst in team history. No player can be all THAT great and I'm not asserting Whitner's greatness. But he does what a safety is supposed to do more often than not. And for the Bills to get distracted at this point and waste any more resources on the defensive backfield is a giant leap in the wrong direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson from Gamehendge Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Whitner is a slightly above average safety. No better, no worse. He ahs lots of tackles because he cant cover well(AKA the "Keith Ellison effect" where you cant cover your man, he is open and catches the ball, then you tackle him) and also because our front seven stinks. I wouldnt even call Whitner a sure tackler bc he just trys to hit you hard and doesnt wrap up. He is also misses too many in the open field. (we should deff resign Whitner though, hes not great so dont pay him like Kelsay, but we should keep our abover average players. PS Kelsay is not in the category ) As for Byrd, he got really really lucky last year. Many of his ints should have been TDs but the pass was horrible (his pick vrs CLE for example). This year that is showing as he is often exposed in coverage. Byrd doesnt have the run stopping ability of Whitner though. Does anyone else miss seeing G. Wilson on the field more? I sure do - he was great last season for us. No. There is a reason he doesn't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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