I admit I was wrong, why was I wrong?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I admit it - I was one of those hopeful fans who thought we would be better (or at least as good this year) as under Jauron.

 

I was wrong

So now it's time to ask -- why?

 

We were changing defensive schemes.

We lost a good player to retirement. We brought in some new players - DE, 2 LB.

The LB were personally known to the new DC, I assumed he'd selected them or at least had strong input.

I thought the LB we brought in, would be at least serviceable players in the 3-4.

I thought the new DE would be at least on the level of Schobel, I wasn't so big of a fan.

 

We lost a good DC in Fewell.

Edwards had been a DC once before, for a year with the Redskins. He has a pretty impressive resume as a LB coach.

He'd only lasted a year as DC with the 'skins if it was him, he wouldn't be the first guy to bomb his 1st opportunity

He looked like a guy that might be ready to make the step.

 

I thought the changes were, at worst, a wash on D

 

OK, I admit it. I was wrong. I thought we'd be a reasonable team, and instead we suck.

And I got to put that mostly on the D.

Believe it or not, there are 11 teams in the league who have scored fewer points than we have.

Some of them are leading their divisions.

 

We are in a class of our own on points given up though.

To me, that's on the DC 'cuz he may not have stars, he got to have his own guys though.

We shouldn't be a #1 D but we should, at least, be serviceable.

 

Last year, if you told me our QB had a rating of 121.4, 20 of 30 for 220 yards with no interceptions AND we rushed for >100 yards

AND lost no fumbles while the other team lost 2 ..... WE WON, RIGHT!

No we got our asses whupped because we couldn't stop the other team from hanging up >30 on us.

 

So I'll man up and admit it - I was wrong.

Now I want to know, is there anyone in the Bills org who'll make a similar assessment?

Maybe it will reach a different conclusion, but something has to be done.

[BuffOrange]

Good job - these threads are a refreshing change from "Where are the ___ people now?" threads.

 

The hopeful fans tend to look at close games we lost the previous year and blame them on coaches, think we should've won even if we got outgained 2:1. But really we were gift wrapped three games last year vs. the Jets, Panthers, and Dolphins. So that's part of it - we just haven't been as lucky this year. But also the defense is worse than even I anticipated. While Jauron had many shortcomings there is something to be said for his bend but don't break D - they played above their personnel. Of course that crappy personnel was at least partially his fault.

[Phil Hansen Forever]

I'm one of the those purple koolaid drinkers myself. I was positive we would at least end up 50/50 this year and now I'm taking the koolaid for supper. You're right, the team sucks and its nearly impossible to lay blame anywhere except management and coaches. Our DC is incompetent, but Perry Fewell wasn't all that much better last year, at least statistically. Our players seem to care, our coach says all the right things, as compared to the idiots who were the previous four coaches, but still isn't getting it done.

 

I'm just glad it's not my fanny on the fire, as I don't have any answers either.

[Billy in 4C]

I admit it - I was one of those hopeful fans who thought we would be better (or at least as good this year) as under Jauron.

 

I was wrong

So now it's time to ask -- why?

 

We were changing defensive schemes.

We lost a good player to retirement. We brought in some new players - DE, 2 LB.

The LB were personally known to the new DC, I assumed he'd selected them or at least had strong input.

I thought the LB we brought in, would be at least serviceable players in the 3-4.

I thought the new DE would be at least on the level of Schobel, I wasn't so big of a fan.

 

We lost a good DC in Fewell.

Edwards had been a DC once before, for a year with the Redskins. He has a pretty impressive resume as a LB coach.

He'd only lasted a year as DC with the 'skins if it was him, he wouldn't be the first guy to bomb his 1st opportunity

He looked like a guy that might be ready to make the step.

 

I thought the changes were, at worst, a wash on D

 

OK, I admit it. I was wrong. I thought we'd be a reasonable team, and instead we suck.

And I got to put that mostly on the D.

Believe it or not, there are 11 teams in the league who have scored fewer points than we have.

Some of them are leading their divisions.

 

We are in a class of our own on points given up though.

To me, that's on the DC 'cuz he may not have stars, he got to have his own guys though.

We shouldn't be a #1 D but we should, at least, be serviceable.

 

Last year, if you told me our QB had a rating of 121.4, 20 of 30 for 220 yards with no interceptions AND we rushed for >100 yards

AND lost no fumbles while the other team lost 2 ..... WE WON, RIGHT!

No we got our asses whupped because we couldn't stop the other team from hanging up >30 on us.

 

So I'll man up and admit it - I was wrong.

Now I want to know, is there anyone in the Bills org who'll make a similar assessment?

Maybe it will reach a different conclusion, but something has to be done.

 

Your mistake was that you didn't pay attention to the big picture - you had a fan bias. Lost better coaches (B-list, except Jauron) and brought in C-listers, lost Schoebel, Denny, Butler, TO, Reed, Wendling, Schoeman, Fine and replaced them with nobodys. Torbor and Davis are 5th-6th linebackers that we signed to START. The only decent signing was Dwan Edwards. New scheme/coaches = learning curve. The draft class only had one guy who can contribute this year, Spiller, and you knew he wasn't going to get a ton of touches because of a crowded backfield. All other picks are projects. Also, moving guys like Kelsay to OLB and having him cover tight ends? Recipe for disaster.

 

I'm suprised you didn't read the huge sign hanging above the team that showed at least 2-3 more losses than last year.

[BillsVet]

IMO, far too man people overestimated Chan Gailey and Buddy Nix. We all tend to get emotional with our teams and value our players/coaches more than they're worth. Gailey and Nix are what they are: people unproven in their current positions who would most likely not be in the NFL were it not for this franchise. Both are likable, both are versed in football-speak, and both have cut their teeth in lower jobs.

 

Right now, the GM and HC are working under conditions unsuitable to winning in the NFL of 2010. A new GM ought to hire his own people, but it's people like Modrak and Overdorf who couldn't get fired if they wanted to. George Costanza dragging the World Series trophy around in the parking lot comes to mind. There's no reason the entire front office wasn't cleaned out, unless it isn't the GM calling the shots.

Edited October 11, 2010 by BillsVet

[jr1]

We wish for the best & get the worst

[rockpile]

IMO, far too man people overestimated Chan Gailey and Buddy Nix. We all tend to get emotional with our teams and value our players/coaches more than they're worth. Gailey and Nix are what they are: people unproven in their current positions who would most likely not be in the NFL were it not for this franchise. Both are likable, both are versed in football-speak, and both have cut their teeth in lower jobs.

 

Right now, the GM and HC are working under conditions unsuitable to winning in the NFL of 2010. A new GM ought to hire his own people, but it's people like Modrak and Overdorf who couldn't get fired if they wanted to. George Costanza dragging the World Series trophy around in the parking lot comes to mind. There's no reason the entire front office wasn't cleaned out, unless it isn't the GM calling the shots.

 

So far at least Gailey has admitted he overestimated his employees.

[Albany,n.y.]

IMO, far too man people overestimated Chan Gailey and Buddy Nix. We all tend to get emotional with our teams and value our players/coaches more than they're worth. Gailey and Nix are what they are: people unproven in their current positions who would most likely not be in the NFL were it not for this franchise. Both are likable, both are versed in football-speak, and both have cut their teeth in lower jobs.

 

Right now, the GM and HC are working under conditions unsuitable to winning in the NFL of 2010. A new GM ought to hire his own people, but it's people like Modrak and Overdorf who couldn't get fired if they wanted to. George Costanza dragging the World Series trophy around in the parking lot comes to mind. There's no reason the entire front office wasn't cleaned out, unless it isn't the GM calling the shots.

I think too many people UNDERESTIMATED last year's coaching staff. Especially after Fewell took over. Every Bills loss this year shows the potential as a head coach that Perry Fewell exhibited last season. When Fewell goes for job interviews next off season all he should say is "Look at how many wins I squeezed out of that sorry bunch in Buffalo." Which will be followed on the other side of the desk by "You truly are a miracle worker, welcome to _____, you're our new head coach."

[oak tree 12]

I think too many people UNDERESTIMATED last year's coaching staff. Especially after Fewell took over. Every Bills loss this year shows the potential as a head coach that Perry Fewell exhibited last season. When Fewell goes for job interviews next off season all he should say is "Look at how many wins I squeezed out of that sorry bunch in Buffalo." Which will be followed on the other side of the desk by "You truly are a miracle worker, welcome to _____, you're our new head coach."

 

 

i think your getting a little carried away or have been hitting the pipe to ease the pain of th game.

 

we immediatly need a new qualified DC and a competent QB who when he throws the ball you have some idea of the vacinity of where it is going.

 

right now we have the most innacurate QB in the league.its great that he will push it down the field more than trent but the problem is sometimes the ball has to be near his intended receiver that would really help a lot.

[Meathead]

you know it takes a big man to admit he was wrong and i respect that so i wont even laugh or make fun of you at ha haha ha ha. oh sorry about that, it just slipped. but anyway thats really cool of haha ha ha haaahahaha. oh man that not me, that not me man. i think its just awesome that you could hahahaaa ha ha bwaahaha haa you thought theyd be good hahahahaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wait lemme try again

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Your mistake was that you didn't pay attention to the big picture - you had a fan bias. Lost better coaches (B-list, except Jauron) and brought in C-listers, lost Schoebel, Denny, Butler, TO, Reed, Wendling, Schoeman, Fine and replaced them with nobodys. Torbor and Davis are 5th-6th linebackers that we signed to START. The only decent signing was Dwan Edwards. New scheme/coaches = learning curve. The draft class only had one guy who can contribute this year, Spiller, and you knew he wasn't going to get a ton of touches because of a crowded backfield. All other picks are projects. Also, moving guys like Kelsay to OLB and having him cover tight ends? Recipe for disaster.

 

I'm suprised you didn't read the huge sign hanging above the team that showed at least 2-3 more losses than last year.

 

Interesting response. It may very well be true I had a fan bias, and it misled me.

 

Let's fact check:

-Andra Davis was a starter for both Denver and the Browns. Look it up.

-Torbor was not a starter, but played on teams with relative depth at linebacker. He was projected to start for Miami last year.

So he wasn't exactly buried at the bottom of the depth chart with no chance at the field.

-Only one of the players you list as replaced with "nobodys" (Schobel) started on the defense last year.

-You acknowledge Schobel was replaced with a "decent signing" in DE Dwan Edwards

-Before becoming Buffalo's DC, Fewell's only experience was 2 years as a DB coach.

-George Edwards was not a "C lister" as a LB coach - has a strong pedigree of developing young LB to stardom and more experience as Fewell had when he took over as DC

 

I submit that Fewell's tenure as DC (last in rushing D?) did not provide evidence for a "huge sign" he was a grade higher than Edwards.

 

I hadn't a clue who Wendling and Denny were, what position they played, and who they were replaced by. I assume you mean John Wendling, who is now playing safety for the Lions. PFR doesn't have him playing a game for the last 3 years. DennEy almost stumped me but he apparently never saw the field as a DE last year, so I'm a bit curious as to why you feel cutting these chaps had significant impact on the starting D?

 

Gotta give big props for putting out evidence to back up your view. Some of it (Wendling and Denney as impactful losses, Davis as a #5-6 LB) seems like a stretch.

 

Perhaps you have a bias too? Did you honestly, objectively, predict we would be as bad as we are based on factual evidence?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

i think your getting a little carried away or have been hitting the pipe to ease the pain of th game.

 

we immediatly need a new qualified DC and a competent QB who when he throws the ball you have some idea of the vacinity of where it is going.

 

right now we have the most innacurate QB in the league.its great that he will push it down the field more than trent but the problem is sometimes the ball has to be near his intended receiver that would really help a lot.

 

Speaking of "getting a little carried away".....

 

You do realize that Fitzgerald has about the same completion percentage as Bradford, Flacco, McNabb, and Sanchez right now, don't you?

 

He's not Orton, Brees or Payton Manning, but it's a big stretch to call him "the most innacurate(sic) QB in the league.

 

A number of entirely respectable QBs overthrow their receivers on deep throws or are inaccurate, especially when they're under heavy pressure or hit while they're throwing. If they win with decent offensive production, all is forgotten.

 

I think too many people UNDERESTIMATED last year's coaching staff. Especially after Fewell took over. Every Bills loss this year shows the potential as a head coach that Perry Fewell exhibited last season. When Fewell goes for job interviews next off season all he should say is "Look at how many wins I squeezed out of that sorry bunch in Buffalo." Which will be followed on the other side of the desk by "You truly are a miracle worker, welcome to _____, you're our new head coach."

 

I suspect that by next year, all Fewell may have to do is say "I was the DC of the 2010 New York Giants."

 

A lot of pundits said we should try to keep Fewell as DC if possible. I think they were right.

 

We wish for the best & get the worst

 

 

The most succinct summary I have read of life as a Bill's fan

[Billshank Redemption]

i have no idea ill be honest i thought peter king made the biggest ass of himself saying we were gonna go 2-14 but its to the sad point where im almost wishing that how sad is that? Its like every year for the past 10 has been a rebuilding year. hell maybin is so bad he cant even play on OUR WORST IN THE NFL DEFENSE youve gotta be kidding me

[TDO'Kearney]

Speaking of "getting a little carried away".....

 

You do realize that Fitzgerald has about the same completion percentage as Bradford, Flacco, McNabb, and Sanchez right now, don't you?

 

He's not Orton, Brees or Payton Manning, but it's a big stretch to call him "the most innacurate(sic) QB in the league.

 

A number of entirely respectable QBs overthrow their receivers on deep throws or are inaccurate, especially when they're under heavy pressure or hit while they're throwing. If they win with decent offensive production, all is forgotten.

 

 

 

I agree with that point. The QBs I see ALWAYS hitting the open receiver accurately are guys like Manning, Brady, Brees - once every generation guys for their teams. Most other QBs aren't doing that for their teams either. Even though it got 2 turnovers, this loss hangs squarely on the "D".

[Billy in 4C]

Interesting response. It may very well be true I had a fan bias, and it misled me.

 

Let's fact check:

-Andra Davis was a starter for both Denver and the Browns. Look it up. Yes, the Browns suck. He wouldn't start for anyone else.

-Torbor was not a starter, but played on teams with relative depth at linebacker. He was projected to start for Miami last year. But he didn't

So he wasn't exactly buried at the bottom of the depth chart with no chance at the field.

-Only one of the players you list as replaced with "nobodys" (Schobel) started on the defense last year. True. But they used more bigger bodies last year, less linebackers. The linebackers are clearly the weakest position on the team, and the coaching staff decided to use 1 more. Also, don't underestimate losing Butler - he was our best OL 2 years ago, and would have been last year except for his season ending injury week 1

-You acknowledge Schobel was replaced with a "decent signing" in DE Dwan Edwards Yes, but two different positions. A DE in a 4-3 is different than a 3-4 DE. In a 3-4 the pass rush comes from the LB. In a 4-3 it comes from DE. We lost our top pass rusher and replaced him with a big body and didn't add a pass rusher to take his place.

-Before becoming Buffalo's DC, Fewell's only experience was 2 years as a DB coach. Fewell had the best pass defense in the league. He filled in admirably as a HC. He was immediately snatched up by a playoff contender and their defense is awesome.

-George Edwards was not a "C lister" as a LB coach - has a strong pedigree of developing young LB to stardom and more experience as Fewell had when he took over as DC George Edwards is garbage and is way over his head. Mark Kelso called out the defensive scheme all day on the radio today, and he's supposed to be a Bills homer.

 

I submit that Fewell's tenure as DC (last in rushing D?) did not provide evidence for a "huge sign" he was a grade higher than Edwards.

 

I hadn't a clue who Wendling and Denny were, what position they played, and who they were replaced by. I assume you mean John Wendling, who is now playing safety for the Lions. PFR doesn't have him playing a game for the last 3 years. DennEy almost stumped me but he apparently never saw the field as a DE last year, so I'm a bit curious as to why you feel cutting these chaps had significant impact on the starting D? John Wendling was our best special teams player last year, and I believe led the league in special team tackles. He was a beast. Denny was a servicable 4-3 DE. He was replaced by Carrington who has 1 tackle to date.

Gotta give big props for putting out evidence to back up your view. Some of it (Wendling and Denney as impactful losses, Davis as a #5-6 LB) seems like a stretch.

 

Perhaps you have a bias too? Did you honestly, objectively, predict we would be as bad as we are based on factual evidence? Yes I did. I don't think we'll be 0-16, but we'll win 3 or 4. Feel free to look through old posts.

 

Responses above.

[Ray]

I think too many people UNDERESTIMATED last year's coaching staff. Especially after Fewell took over. Every Bills loss this year shows the potential as a head coach that Perry Fewell exhibited last season. When Fewell goes for job interviews next off season all he should say is "Look at how many wins I squeezed out of that sorry bunch in Buffalo." Which will be followed on the other side of the desk by "You truly are a miracle worker, welcome to _____, you're our new head coach."

 

Agree 100%...Perry Fewell looks like the best HC this team has had in 10 years! The guy got the most out of the team and now the Giants defense looks great their last two games as he gets a handle of that team and his players. Houston's offense and Schaub were overmatched by the Giants' D today. That guy can coach and I think you see it now by how superior his defense was compared with how horrendous this team defense is...with Fewell a DL and LB in the offseason would have left us with a good defense and we have a suitable offense right now that could keep a decent team in games.

Why everyone thought te 3-4 was a good idea is beyond me for a team where it creates almost an entire new 6-7 needs and player needs for your defense. Every single player on the front 7 from last year is not suited for the 3-4. We really need 5-6 new players if we continue this ridiculous change......thet is going to take another 2-3 seasons. Think we would be better in a 4-3 with Haynesworth in the middle who wants to play for a team in a 4-3?

[Thurman#1]

I'm one of the those purple koolaid drinkers myself. I was positive we would at least end up 50/50 this year and now I'm taking the koolaid for supper. You're right, the team sucks and its nearly impossible to lay blame anywhere except management and coaches. Our DC is incompetent, but Perry Fewell wasn't all that much better last year, at least statistically. Our players seem to care, our coach says all the right things, as compared to the idiots who were the previous four coaches, but still isn't getting it done.

 

I'm just glad it's not my fanny on the fire, as I don't have any answers either.

 

 

 

Did you notice how much better Fewell is coaching this year with good players? I suspect that's not a coincidence.

 

Remember, we're rebuilding. Doing bad this year isn't a bad thing.

 

IMO, far too man people overestimated Chan Gailey and Buddy Nix. We all tend to get emotional with our teams and value our players/coaches more than they're worth. Gailey and Nix are what they are: people unproven in their current positions who would most likely not be in the NFL were it not for this franchise. Both are likable, both are versed in football-speak, and both have cut their teeth in lower jobs.

 

Right now, the GM and HC are working under conditions unsuitable to winning in the NFL of 2010. A new GM ought to hire his own people, but it's people like Modrak and Overdorf who couldn't get fired if they wanted to. George Costanza dragging the World Series trophy around in the parking lot comes to mind. There's no reason the entire front office wasn't cleaned out, unless it isn't the GM calling the shots.

 

 

Who brought in Nix after he'd retired? Modrak did. Nix clearly has tremendous respect for Modrak, maybe because he's damn good.

[AllDayADay]

I am hoping by next week we hear something about change coming soon. Whether that means personnel or coaching I dont care. I just want to see something different from this team. I am so sick and tired of being SICK AND TIRED!

 

I still keep some sort of hope. Especially since its 2nd half problems that really kill us. Maybe were tired from a harder training camp than were used too. Maybe its a lack of coaching changes. This team is lacking a lot, but something that should not go over-looked is the lack of leadership on this team.

[The Chief Corky]

I was wrong but I fixed it after a few games...long before today.

I said the Bills had a 2-14 record in the pre-season during the 4 years they went to the Super Bowl and that they had the chance to equal that record in the regular season this year by going 2-14.

I fixed my prediction by stating the Bills can have a perfect season by going 0-16...many times the last few weeks.

Alais young grasshopper...all is not lost yet but can be with performaces like today.

Being a 50 year Bills fan is like having a colonosophy every year that lasts from September to the end of the year.

The paper bag picture was priceless. I just can't believe the Bills defense made Garrard look good.

They haven't been rebuilding the last 10 years, they have been corroding from the inside until all structure is gone.

Like the one columnist said last week..the whole team should be cut. But then again, why blame the players, they were hand picked by the administration...every team was picked by the administration for the last 10 years. Clearing out the front office is a start.

This is not right for the city of Buffalo or the fans that are spread throughout the United States...plus our brave Buffalo Bills fans in a military uniform. Nothing like a boost of crap from home as one finds out the football scores while fighting in Ash-can-istam. I thought we were suppose to boost the morals of our fighting fans...not sicken them.

I was going to ship my Bills stuff (not my helmet...I'm keeping that) to their corporate office if they decided to move to Toronto. Maybe that box of memories will be delivered this week. Bledsoe, Johnson, Loseman etc jerseys, coffee cups, coolies, pens, beer glasses, hats, etc. Maybe One Bills Drive can find a use for them.

One thing I can give the Bills credit for...they are losing without causing heart attacks. No more losing in the last minute like the Jets and Dalass games of a few years ago. Nos siree, they decide to lose in the 2nd & 3rd quarters saving lives and allowing fans to do other things after half time.

The sad part...even Todd Collins can suck up the playing field and his team won and he's been cast away from Buffalo for what...14 years.

I have the feelings that the Bills can even lose in their bye week...and that's sad.

[Thurman#1]

Interesting response. It may very well be true I had a fan bias, and it misled me.

 

Let's fact check:

-Andra Davis was a starter for both Denver and the Browns. Look it up.

-Torbor was not a starter, but played on teams with relative depth at linebacker. He was projected to start for Miami last year.

So he wasn't exactly buried at the bottom of the depth chart with no chance at the field.

-Only one of the players you list as replaced with "nobodys" (Schobel) started on the defense last year.

-You acknowledge Schobel was replaced with a "decent signing" in DE Dwan Edwards

-Before becoming Buffalo's DC, Fewell's only experience was 2 years as a DB coach.

-George Edwards was not a "C lister" as a LB coach - has a strong pedigree of developing young LB to stardom and more experience as Fewell had when he took over as DC

 

I submit that Fewell's tenure as DC (last in rushing D?) did not provide evidence for a "huge sign" he was a grade higher than Edwards.

 

I hadn't a clue who Wendling and Denny were, what position they played, and who they were replaced by. I assume you mean John Wendling, who is now playing safety for the Lions. PFR doesn't have him playing a game for the last 3 years. DennEy almost stumped me but he apparently never saw the field as a DE last year, so I'm a bit curious as to why you feel cutting these chaps had significant impact on the starting D?

 

Gotta give big props for putting out evidence to back up your view. Some of it (Wendling and Denney as impactful losses, Davis as a #5-6 LB) seems like a stretch.

 

Perhaps you have a bias too? Did you honestly, objectively, predict we would be as bad as we are based on factual evidence?

 

 

I did. I knew darn well we wouldn't have a pass rush. Schobel had been doing his heroic best for years and making everyone around him better. When he retired, it was the last ray of light being extinguished. So, yeah, honestly, objectively, I was almost positive this would be a horrible year on defense.

 

And yeah, you should have known there was a very good chance this was coming with so many 4 - 3 players switching positions and playing places they'd never played before, with 2 NTs, a rookie who's a bit too small for the job though he might grow, and a vet who's way too small for the job.

 

The two most important positions in a 3 - 4 defense? NT and ROLB, and when Schobel retired, we had nothing but bad options at both positions.

 

And one quick fact check on your post, how did Ryan Denney, a guy who apparently "never saw the field as a DE last year" get two sacks and 16 tackles? Denney was a platoon player and did a decent job. Too small for 3 - 4 DE, though, and not mobile enough for LB.

[TheChimp]

1. Schobel was FAR better than alot of us (including myself) ever gave him credit for.

2. These players are FAR worse at picking up the 3-4 than one could have ever imagined they'd be.

3. George Edwards doesn't appear to know WTF he's doing with his players.

4. Bruce De Haven is a shadow of his former self.

5. Chan Gailey isn't nearly as good an OC as we were all led to believe.

6. Ralph Wilson wouldn't know a good GM if one called him from Indianapolis and offered to come back and help him save face (again).

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Responses above.

 

Makes it tough to respond, but I'll give it a try. I don't want to quibble; you say we added #5-6 LB, I point out one of them started for two teams, you say one of the two teams suck, I could point out Denver was 2nd in the Division and was expected by some to do better, they certainly aren't league-scraping scum, you could have some quibble with that, what's the point. I still don't "get" how releasing two players who never saw the field on D last year, or an injured OT, makes the D horrible.

 

I'll go after the two points you make that seem most salient. I say:

-You acknowledge Schobel was replaced with a "decent signing" in DE Dwan Edwards You respond: Yes, but two different positions. A DE in a 4-3 is different than a 3-4 DE. In a 3-4 the pass rush comes from the LB. In a 4-3 it comes from DE. We lost our top pass rusher and replaced him with a big body and didn't add a pass rusher to take his place.

 

That strikes me as really key. Most people last year felt we were pretty sad with regard to QB pressure, and now we have even less.

And yep, we don't have a decent pass-rushing LB much less a stud no argument there. So that's a "fair cop" - whether or not they're servicable starters, Torbor and Davis have never been pass-rushing studs. I think the DEs are good to servicable. But yep, the OLB (Kelsay esp). are not making the grade.

 

I said: -George Edwards was not a "C lister" as a LB coach - has a strong pedigree of developing young LB to stardom and more experience as Fewell had when he took over as DC You respond: George Edwards is garbage and is way over his head. Mark Kelso called out the defensive scheme all day on the radio today, and he's supposed to be a Bills homer.

 

Now we're getting into name calling - it would be pointless to debate with someone using terms like "garbage". I can't argue that he seems over his head today, the question at hand is whether it was obvious a priori this spring that would be the case. Using insults or pointing out what you see today don't seem like strong evidence that he was clearly a downgrade last spring.

 

You say: I don't think we'll be 0-16, but we'll win 3 or 4. Feel free to look through old posts.

I'll do that.

 

Nice talking to you

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I did. I knew darn well we wouldn't have a pass rush. Schobel had been doing his heroic best for years and making everyone around him better. When he retired, it was the last ray of light being extinguished. So, yeah, honestly, objectively, I was almost positive this would be a horrible year on defense.

 

And yeah, you should have known there was a very good chance this was coming with so many 4 - 3 players switching positions and playing places they'd never played before, with 2 NTs, a rookie who's a bit too small for the job though he might grow, and a vet who's way too small for the job.

 

The two most important positions in a 3 - 4 defense? NT and ROLB, and when Schobel retired, we had nothing but bad options at both positions.

 

And one quick fact check on your post, how did Ryan Denney, a guy who apparently "never saw the field as a DE last year" get two sacks and 16 tackles? Denney was a platoon player and did a decent job. Too small for 3 - 4 DE, though, and not mobile enough for LB.

 

Schobel - I think that's a fair cop on me. I underestimated Schobel - didn't think he was the "last ray of light", certainly.

 

NT - for "way too small for the job", Kyle Williams seems like the bright ray in a dark room to me.

 

I sit corrected on Denney. He was not a starter, 0 starts. I didn't see him on the field, I don't get to see every game though.

Not clear on me how much defensive impact letting him go really had.

 

I'm still not entirely clear on the total source of the meltdown though. It seems as though other teams have switched schemes, brought in 3-4 players off season, and it's not been this scale of an epic disaster.

 

Thanks for the fact check!

 

1. Schobel was FAR better than alot of us (including myself) ever gave him credit for.

2. These players are FAR worse at picking up the 3-4 than one could have ever imagined they'd be.

3. George Edwards doesn't appear to know WTF he's doing with his players.

4. Bruce De Haven is a shadow of his former self.

5. Chan Gailey isn't nearly as good an OC as we were all led to believe.

6. Ralph Wilson wouldn't know a good GM if one called him from Indianapolis and offered to come back and help him save face (again).

 

 

I think this really sums it up nicely. Although evidently many experts and some denizens here have better imaginations than I on Point 2.

 

Point 3 appears salient.