TheChimp Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 So what else could it turn out to be, if not human? Michael Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodBye Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 The fertilized egg is a unique human and is alive. It has it's own unique genome and meets all seven of the criteria for life. Yes, and abortion = murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopsGuy Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 (edited) I've quoted this before so for the sake of redundancy: I am an apolitical person. Absolutely nobody believes me when I say that, but it's true. Every conservative person I know thinks I'm mixing Noam Chomsky's personal Kool-Aid, and every liberal I know seems to assume I want to shampoo Ann Coulter's hair while watching outtakes from "The Passion of the Christ." I have no idea how this happened. For example, I don't have an opinion on abortion. I really, truly do not. You want to have an abortion? Fine; take my car keys, You think abortion is murder? Well, you're probably right. Who knows? Either way, it doesn't have anything to do with me. Do I think George W. Bush is the worst president of my lifetime? Well, of course I do -- but that's not because he's a Republican. It's because he somehow (a) got into Yale, yet (b) claims "the jury is still out" on the theory of evolution. Everything is situational, and that reality informs how I interpret the world. At least within my mind, it seems as though any people who consciously and consistently perceive themselves as right-leaning or left-leaning are simply admitting that they don't want to think critically about complexity. It always strikes me as staunchly unsophisticated and mildly insane. - Chuck Klosterman Edited October 2, 2010 by HopsGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NyQuil Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 I have a feeling this thread won't end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zevo Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I had a discussion today with some people about abortion and if it is necessary. I believed that mistakes lead to abortions and people need to use protection...however... until it is illegal (it probably never will be) - I believe it is ultimately up to the woman to do what she wants. As wrong as it may seem - it is legal and the woman can make the decision. Now... Enter religion. The person I was speaking to was quick to go against the procedure which is absolutely fine with me... but... when you start explaining how "a soul enters the embryo which makes it a human" - I want no part of the discussion. I respect religious morals but I really wish people could speak practically sometimes. Its your opinion that the religious answer is not practical...I on the other hand believe it is very practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonInBuffalo Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Of course there's nothing wrong with someone allowing their religious beliefs to influence this or any other (personal/private) decision they make. However, it's not appropriate for people to try to shape public policy based on their religious beliefs, because of course not everyone will share in those beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Of course there's nothing wrong with someone allowing their religious beliefs to influence this or any other (personal/private) decision they make. However, it's not appropriate for people to try to shape public policy based on their religious beliefs, because of course not everyone will share in those beliefs. Not everyone agrees with lots of public policy choices. Religion-based morality, gut-feeling morality, what's the diff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonInBuffalo Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Not everyone agrees with lots of public policy choices. Religion-based morality, gut-feeling morality, what's the diff? Because (among other reasons) Religion-based policy decisions are blatantly illegal? Is this a trick question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Because (among other reasons) Religion-based policy decisions are blatantly illegal? Is this a trick question? They are illegal? How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonInBuffalo Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 They are illegal? How so? The 1st Amendment. The Government can't endorse/promote religion, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 (edited) The 1st Amendment. The Government can't endorse/promote religion, period. You are confusing establishing a national religion with people being motivated to support this or that policy proposal based on their religious beliefs. Edited October 3, 2010 by johnnyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonInBuffalo Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 You are confusing establishing a national religion with people being motivated to support this or that policy proposal based on their religious beliefs. No I'm not. If the government bases a policy directly on a religious belief, that's a de facto endorsement of that religion. That's not legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 No I'm not. If the government bases a policy directly on a religious belief, that's a de facto endorsement of that religion. That's not legal. Hmm... I am surprised your argument was never addressed in the major abortion cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonInBuffalo Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Hmm... I am surprised your argument was never addressed in the major abortion cases. What you need to keep in mind is: A) having a religious belief B) forming a legal opinion C) using your religious belief to directly influence your legal opinion aren't necessarily the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 What you need to keep in mind is: A) having a religious belief B) forming a legal opinion C) using your religious belief to directly influence your legal opinion aren't necessarily the same. It does not matter why a law was passed, whether for religious reasons or otherwise, so long as the law has a limited secular purpose. Even blue laws have been upheld. Of course, this is all moot because opposition to abortion need not require religious faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I always steer clear of conversations about abortion it always devolves into the same debate and no one changes anyones mind about anything either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I always steer clear of conversations about abortion it always devolves into the same debate and no one changes anyones mind about anything either way. Weird because these discussions change my mind all the time. I was pro-abortion before this thread but now I am anti-abortion. I was anti-abortion before the last TBD dust up but that one changed me to pro-abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 (edited) But not HUMAN life. Sure it is. But if you don't want your own kid, I sure as hell don't want to end up paying for his prison cell, welfare or needless gov't job, so by all mean, please go ahead and abort him. Plus, it's none of the gov'ts !@#$ business. Edited October 3, 2010 by KD in CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodBye Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 In my opinion, one of the confounding factors in the abortion debate, and the one thing that makes this a topic that will likely never be debated objectively, is the fact that this is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) issues that feminists tie their movement to. I'm sorry, but if I were starting some sort of "Overweight Bills Fan" group designed to fight for our rights, the last issue I would hang my hat on would be baby killing. If it were packaged as an, "it's my right to do with my body as I please" thing only, I'd support it 100%. But the fact that abortion itself is so intimately tied into that, and arguably THE main issue linked to a woman's right to sovreignty over her body, it's hard for me to be on board with the movement. I think it's asinine how often the "rape" example comes up. That happens in less than 1% of all abortion cases. The fact is, both men and women practice sex haphazzardly and irresponsibly, and as a result there are millions of unwanted pregnancies. If I were a feminist, I'd want to focus on preaching and practicing responsible behavior, not the right to terminate a pregnancy. This is a good way of looking at it and a great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 No I'm not. If the government bases a policy directly on a religious belief, that's a de facto endorsement of that religion. That's not legal. And that's the way the Supreme Court usually rules in cases where public policy is clearly based on religious belief. Abortion is not so clearly a religious issue, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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