Why are some of you so Pessimistic?

[tonyjustbcuz]

I think I am one of the more cautiously optimistic fans on this board. I like the moves we have made in the offseason. But we still have big question marks at QB and O line. This is where I think our new head coach will put a much better scheme together that will give the players we do have a much better chance of succeeding. (I think many of us fans have forgotten or failed to realize how very bad our offensive game planning, coaching and teaching was under Dick Jauron) If nothing else there should be much more cohesion, purpose and direction under Gailey. This guy has always been a winner, and will get whatever talent we do have to play up to its potential. Barring a severe rash of injuries as we have had in years past, I see us competing for a wild card spot late into the season.

 

A big test for this team will be week 2 in Green Bay. For the opener, we will be obviously jacked playing our hated rivals at home. They do not have much offense, so a strong defensive performance with a solid conservative gameplan that minimizes mistakes should get us a victory. But the following week going on the road against a VERY good offensive team, we will need the offense to play lights out to have a chance. In past years, this was the kind of game we absolutely got smoked in. Jauron never had the team in any frame of mind to compete against a juggernaut offense. (We never had the mentality to compete matching point for point) The weather will still be good in Wisconsin in September, so I will be very interested to see the scheme we come up with that gives us a chance to win. That is always the mark of any good coach, giving your team a chance to win. I hope Gailey is that guy, because Jauron and his predecessors certainly were not.

 

 

I also hope that Gailey is the guy, but I'm not optimistic like you are. I wish I were, but their draft told me a lot about the direction the Bills are going and in my opinion it is south. We agree about OLT & QB positions not being properly addressed, but I think we will be saying the same things after a 5-11 season plays out! Just like the Fram oil filter commercials use to say...u can pay me now or pay me later!!! We'll probably pay w/a poor record rather than payin big bucks at QB and OLT ! The Bills 1st win probably won't come until week #5 at home against Jacksonville IMO....I hope that's not the case and they win them all, but that would be irresponsible to predict, but it would fulfill optimism based on love for the team only!

[Glory Bound]

I'm just curious about the make up of some of the people on here. Is it in your genes that some of you are so pessimistic of the Bills? Is it so deeply ingrained in your souls that the outlook is so bad?

 

I know that most of us here have an optimistic outlook of the Bills, no matter how bleak things have looked for a while. The majority of us have read up and studied our team and know things haven't worked out the best for years. But we realize things can go better. How can things go worse?

 

We've upgraded our D and we have a man in charge who is known for making the most of an O. If we had upgraded our O in the draft instead of the D, I bet some of you would still find something to complain about.

 

Seriously though, I'm just curious, have some of you been so pessimistic all your life?

 

I'm not saying at all that you shouldn't post. I actually like reading your points of views at times because it's good to see different aspects and views of the game. But really, pessimism can go too far.

 

I'de much rather read optimistic posts from people who do their research (like a lot of people here do).

 

Thoughts?

 

I am VERY optimistic that the Bills will be awarded one of the top three draft picks in 2011

[sabres...yawn]

You seem very angry. I can help for $150 an hour.

 

 

Good one.

 

HaPpy Independence DaY- the best holiday...

 

-no church, beer, BBQ and a trunkload of explosives- (J. Kimmel)

 

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

Some people are just really unhappy with their lives. They haven't made the best choices and are stuck in a poor job (Would you like fries with that?) or they don't have connections with other people so they need to act out. It's not that they are purposefully trying to be debbie downers. They don't know how to be anything else. They only understand disappointment so they latch onto a football team, not as a fan, but as way to find some sort of meaning they lack personally. If the team doesn't win or have success then there right back where they started.

 

They can't by definition be a 'fan' of the team because they're not watching the team as entertainment. They have a deeply vested interest int he team's success and it is a harsh reminder of their lack of control in their own lives when the team makes a decisions that doesn't pan out.

 

It also helps to find an easy target. No one makes fun of the most popular kid. They will gang up on the weak link and make fun of the shortcomings. It's easy to always say the Bills will lose than crow when they do suffer a loss. That moment is the highlight of their life. They were 'RIGHT'! It's a brief moment in a depressing series of days where they feel like they are unable to do anything. However, the Bills lack of success if a salve for their wounds. They PREDICTED they would lose because THEY are incompetent. It's much easier to deal with one's own lack of success when you can point to the failings of others. A sports team is a focal point for that and provides an audience of other fans who they can point out just how RIGHT they were about the team.

 

Posts like this only inflate their sense of ego.

 

My advice is to be fan and stop worrying about the personal problems of others. They're not paying you by the hour to counsel them.

 

The Bills could lose for the next fifty years. I'll still be a fan, I'll still watch the games. That is what being a fan is about.

Sorry bro but that's the biggest bunch I've generalizations and nothingness I've read on this site in awhile. Everyone is different and the incompetent crap you just threw out there is pathetic. And by the way did someone ask for your ADVICE ?

[sharper802]

Because the offensive line has a chance of being worse than last years....

[Bill from NYC]

Anyone predicting just 4 wins is an idiot.

 

Mike with all due respect, it isn't about predicting wins imo. Wrt the Bills, it is about the consistently stupid moves the team makes. The Bills continue to lose for a host of reasons. They draft poor players and ignore the most important positions with their most valuable resources. They hire incompetent people to run the team. Worst of all, they seem to have a meddling owner.

 

Now, do I like the Nix/Gailey regime better than Levy/Jauron? Of course. Levy and Jauron were perhaps the biggest pair of incompetents I have ever seen in more than 40 years of watching football, so being better than them really isn't a far climb. Aside from Spiller, I even think that the 2010 draft was a good one.

But the Bills, no matter who is GM, continue to repeat very odd moves, such as signing RTs from the Raiders and using 1st round picks on "skill players." Now, we have the 1st running back drafted all set to go with a Raider castoff at RT and a collection of pure garbage at LT.

If this makes sense to you in terms of winning games, I would love to know why.

[Pilsner]

I think i was a bit too vague with my first post.

 

What I really was trying to get at was:

 

Are the pessimists on this board just pessimistic about the Bills are are you all pessimists in general with all things?

 

I think we all get pessimistic from time to time. It's only natural. I've read people calling themselves "realistic pessimists" on here. I consider myself a realistic optimist. Definitely not a blind optimist.

 

Realistic: I agree that our 0-line needs more talent and more experience. We are not set at QB yet. Our D needs time to learn the new system. We have a new HC and we all know what happened with the last 3.

 

Optimism: Our HC has a history of making more with less in the NFL. Our young players will gain more valuable experience this season.

 

I'm not trying to bash you pessimists. Just trying to understand my fellow fans. We're all in this together.

 

The more successful people in life seem to have a more optimistic view rather than a pessimistic. I hope that most of you pessimists don't let the pessimism control your whole viewpoint on life.

 

I think most HC's are realistic about the talent they have and are also optimistic/positive about their abilities to mold and make a team into a contender and win.

 

Ok it's the 4th of July and it's time to clean up and fire up the grill. I wish all you optimists, realists, pessimists, and every combination a Happy 4th of July!

 

Go Bills!!

 

Oh and Red, I was in HS during the glory years too. Started watching the Bills in 87-88

[Glory Bound]

I think i was a bit too vague with my first post.

 

What I really was trying to get at was:

 

Are the pessimists on this board just pessimistic about the Bills are are you all pessimists in general with all things?

 

I think we all get pessimistic from time to time. It's only natural. I've read people calling themselves "realistic pessimists" on here. I consider myself a realistic optimist. Definitely not a blind optimist.

 

Realistic: I agree that our 0-line needs more talent and more experience. We are not set at QB yet. Our D needs time to learn the new system. We have a new HC and we all know what happened with the last 3.

 

Optimism: Our HC has a history of making more with less in the NFL. Our young players will gain more valuable experience this season.

 

I'm not trying to bash you pessimists. Just trying to understand my fellow fans. We're all in this together.

 

The more successful people in life seem to have a more optimistic view rather than a pessimistic. I hope that most of you pessimists don't let the pessimism control your whole viewpoint on life.

 

I think most HC's are realistic about the talent they have and are also optimistic/positive about their abilities to mold and make a team into a contender and win.

 

Ok it's the 4th of July and it's time to clean up and fire up the grill. I wish all you optimists, realists, pessimists, and every combination a Happy 4th of July!

 

Go Bills!!

 

Oh and Red, I was in HS during the glory years too. Started watching the Bills in 87-88

 

I am an optimist in ALL things, except my football team this year...which happens to be the Bills since birth. I am optimistic not only for a high draft pick in 2011, but I am optimistic that the money I save by canceling my Sunday Ticket will be put to good use. I am optimistic that the pressure will be off by our BYE week. I am optimistic that my wife will stop considering enrolling me in anger management classes on Sunday afternoons. I am optimistic my kids will say this fall..."my dad seems a lot happier this year." I am optimistic that all the "real Bills optimists" out there will realize we're the 4th best team in our division, & it's gonna remain that way for a while. Gonna take several years to right this ship. Bummer! How I miss the early 90's!

[folz]

I have no problem with people evaluating the team, seeing holes and question marks,

wondering why they did or didn't make certain moves and then based on their opinion saying

its going to be a rough season in the win column for the Bills.

 

I also understand being cautious about what to expect from Nix, Whaley, Gailey, etc.

because we have been through coaching and GM turnovers that didn't work out and

sometimes change doesn't mean improvement.

 

What I have a problem with is the people who guess 0-2 wins (we had six last year

amidst a perfect storm of problems), trash players on the team (not evaluating how good

they are or not or if we should stick with them, but just throwing out personal attacks),

failing to recognize the talented players we do have (like one post I read that said everyone

of our starters could be upgraded by third stringers from other teams), etc., etc.

 

I have no problem being realistic about the team (even though I'm one who is optimistic),

but how realistic is 1 win? How realistic is "we don't have one player that would start for

another team?"

 

There is a spectrum of optimism and pessimism and anyone on either extreme is not being

realistic. The rest of us can discuss the issues, players, moves, coaching, etc. We can be critical

of the team or players while still supporting them and not attack them personally.

 

We're all Bills fans...but I think what people get tired of are not the people who aren't optimistic

(trying to be realistic) about this upcoming season or coaching staff or whatever, but the ones

who can never see anything positive about the team and trash the team any chance they get.

[sullim4]

It's hard not to be pessimistic after the following has happened to us over the last 10 years:

 

- Ten years of no playoff appearances.

- Never being so poor as to get a top 3 pick but not quite good enough to get a playoff spot.

- Greggo Williams, Meathead, and Dick Jauron as head coaches.

- Humiliating nationally televised MNF losses to the Cowboys, Browns, and Patriots*.

- Not enough money to sign free agent talent.

- Not playing the full slate of 8 home games every year.

- Having your team under constant threat of being moved away.

 

I think we MIGHT be on the upswing, but it's a long road to the playoffs and we're at step 1 or 2. At this point, I think the team's goal should be a winning record in the division, including at least one win over New England*. Screw the playoffs, I would be overjoyed if they could finally beat that team.

[Glory Bound]

It's hard not to be pessimistic after the following has happened to us over the last 10 years:

 

- Ten years of no playoff appearances.

- Never being so poor as to get a top 3 pick but not quite good enough to get a playoff spot.

- Greggo Williams, Meathead, and Dick Jauron as head coaches.

- Humiliating nationally televised MNF losses to the Cowboys, Browns, and Patriots*.

- Not enough money to sign free agent talent.

- Not playing the full slate of 8 home games every year.

- Having your team under constant threat of being moved away.

 

I think we MIGHT be on the upswing, but it's a long road to the playoffs and we're at step 1 or 2. At this point, I think the team's goal should be a winning record in the division, including at least one win over New England*. Screw the playoffs, I would be overjoyed if they could finally beat that team.

My mama always used to say, "When all else fails, lower your standards!"

[kota]

I personally don't understand alot of the attitudes i see from people on this board. People love to trash players on the team they supposedly love. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

[Meathead]

4. Really really small penis

you bastard

[Thurman#1]

I'm just curious about the make up of some of the people on here. Is it in your genes that some of you are so pessimistic of the Bills? Is it so deeply ingrained in your souls that the outlook is so bad?

 

I know that most of us here have an optimistic outlook of the Bills, no matter how bleak things have looked for a while. The majority of us have read up and studied our team and know things haven't worked out the best for years. But we realize things can go better. How can things go worse?

 

We've upgraded our D and we have a man in charge who is known for making the most of an O. If we had upgraded our O in the draft instead of the D, I bet some of you would still find something to complain about.

 

Seriously though, I'm just curious, have some of you been so pessimistic all your life?

 

I'm not saying at all that you shouldn't post. I actually like reading your points of views at times because it's good to see different aspects and views of the game. But really, pessimism can go too far.

 

I'de much rather read optimistic posts from people who do their research (like a lot of people here do).

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Your pessimism is in the real world called realism. Sure, I get that there are pessimists out there, but most of us are only realists, yet get called pessimists constantly by all of the cockeyed optiimists who think there's no question that the Bills will be in the playoffs this year.

 

The Bills haven't been good in a very long time, and haven't made nearly enough changes to be good this year. Can't speak for anyone else, but I think there's a good chance that this regime can turn things around give two to three years. I'm not counting on it, but I think there's a good chance. That's (reasoned) optimism.

 

Thinking that we can turn everything around this year is counting on about a 1 - 2% chance.

[bbillyfootballcoach]

I've watched football for over 45 years. I know a 1st year rebuild with new offensive & defensive systems when I see it. I've also learned a team isn't built in a day. This team has a lot of holes. A realist fan is not always a pessimist. As San Jose said in another thread, it can be very enjoyable watching a bad team grow into a good team over the course of a few seasons.

It's time to remember the goal is to play in and win the Super Bowl, not be satisfied because the Bills won the game you watched even though they lost 2 or 3 times as many games by the end of the season. 7 wins this year would be an improvement. I find 7 win seasons unacceptable. I'd rather my team totally stink a season or two & win a Super Bowl a couple of years later than 3-4 years from now be a team that sneaks into the playoffs every year & never has a chance of getting by the 1st or 2nd round.

So the way I see it, this team is undermaned at C, OT, QB, WR on offense. I don't care if Chan Gailey has done a lot with little, he doesn't even have little with all the holes on the offense. Chan can't work miracles, he can only get the best out of players & the best our QBs & OTs can give might still result in a very poor offense. If one or 2 young WRs can prove they're NFL players & we can get a QB & LT in the next offseason, there's cause for a lot of optimism-next year, not this year. The team is switching to a totally new defense with question marks about the NT, DE, & the former DEs switching to LB has a lot of room for improvement. If a foundation can be formed on defense, the future could look bright.

Right now our goal should be watching players who will be around for a Super Bowl run, not getting on the case of people who think the W-L record is going to be dismal. The odds are pretty good the record will be dismal. If it's the 1st year of a rebuild, so be it. Here's something to think about. In the 1990s I used to look at old programs from the mid 80s & see how many of the guys on our really bad teams were destined to play in the Super Bowl as Bills. The 1984 team had 2 guys who made it, 1985's team had 7, and the 1986 team had 16. That 1986 team had almost 1/3 of the Super Bowl teams, yet still won only 4 games-with Jim Kelly. How many of the current Bills could be on a Super Bowl team in 3-4 years? Here's my estimate: QB -none; RB Spiller; WR Evans, Easley; TE Nelson; OL: Wood, Levitre, Meredith, Wang, Calloway; DL: Troup, Williams, Carrington; LB: Batten, Posluszny, Maybin(?), DB: Corner, Langster, McGee, McKelvin, Byrd, 1 more who stays among vets. So my total is 21, about 40% of a potential future Super Bowl team. Take 2-3 away for the optimism I have on this rookie class & it would be closer to 1/3rd. A little better numbers for the 2010 team over the 4-12 1986 team, but that team had future HOFers at QB & DE, and some more wall of famers.

If I conclude 4 to 5 wins for this team, it doesn't make me a pessimist if I have an eye towards the future. The optimists around here who are thinking they have to win every week, even though they know they won't will look at the small picture, "feel good" the week the Bills win that 4th game and miss the bigger picture. As I've said before, Herm Edwards had it all wrong, you don't "play to win the game" you play to win the Championship. The record a year, 2, or 3 years before that championship becomes irrelevant when you've got the Lombardi Trophy.

amen to that. where have you been all my life? Finally someone who sees the whole picture and "gets it"

[bbillyfootballcoach]

I'm just curious about the make up of some of the people on here. Is it in your genes that some of you are so pessimistic of the Bills? Is it so deeply ingrained in your souls that the outlook is so bad?

 

I know that most of us here have an optimistic outlook of the Bills, no matter how bleak things have looked for a while. The majority of us have read up and studied our team and know things haven't worked out the best for years. But we realize things can go better. How can things go worse?

 

We've upgraded our D and we have a man in charge who is known for making the most of an O. If we had upgraded our O in the draft instead of the D, I bet some of you would still find something to complain about.

 

Seriously though, I'm just curious, have some of you been so pessimistic all your life?

 

I'm not saying at all that you shouldn't post. I actually like reading your points of views at times because it's good to see different aspects and views of the game. But really, pessimism can go too far.

 

I'de much rather read optimistic posts from people who do their research (like a lot of people here do).

 

Thoughts?

This isnt church where we all "pray" for our team to win...and then they do... Its called evaluating and opinions, We are all disgusted with bad game day decisions and even worse personnel decisions. It seems to me every year there is just one or two guys who ruin it for the Bills and keep them out of the playoffs. Heres a list, forgive my dates they are approximations...

 

1999-2001 Rob Johnson- hi, i am an idiot.

2002-2004 Kevin Gilbride-hi, i pass every third down, no matter what.

2004-2006 Gerry Gray- hi i always blitz, when that doesnt work,I blitz more.

2007-present Dick Mauron/Trent Edwards - Hi its hard to win/ Hi its hard to throw past 5 yards

[Pilsner]

This isnt church where we all "pray" for our team to win...and then they do... Its called evaluating and opinions, We are all disgusted with bad game day decisions and even worse personnel decisions. It seems to me every year there is just one or two guys who ruin it for the Bills and keep them out of the playoffs. Heres a list, forgive my dates they are approximations...

 

1999-2001 Rob Johnson- hi, i am an idiot.

2002-2004 Kevin Gilbride-hi, i pass every third down, no matter what.

2004-2006 Gerry Gray- hi i always blitz, when that doesnt work,I blitz more.

2007-present Dick Mauron/Trent Edwards - Hi its hard to win/ Hi its hard to throw past 5 yards

 

I never said I prayed for us to win. I'm a realistic optimist. Nothing less and nothing more.

please don't put words in my mouth.

[billsfreak]

Why are some of you so Pessimistic?, Dear God, good heavens why?

 

Are you for real? Do this-Get the book "The Buffalo Bills History" (if it really exists), check the Bills records for the past decade or so and see what they have in common. Ok, now if you have half a brain when you look over the past decade, you can answer your own question.

[Thurman#1]

I don't get it either. Why root for a sports team if you think they will lose all the time? Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

 

 

There are some pessimists out there, the ones who say every single year that we'll be lucky to win one game.

 

But most of the ones you think are pessimists are realists. We DON'T think they will lose all the time. We think they will lose next year. And we've thought so for several years now. The fact that we were right has taught us that teams that don't have the personnel to be great ... don't win a lot of games.

 

When we get the personnel to become a playoff team ... when we don't have tons of holes throughout the lineup, the pessimists will still predict one win, but the realists will start to be more positive. We aren't there yet.

[Thurman#1]

over the years ive learned that when it comes to sports some people have fun having faith their team will be good every season while others have fun trying to evaluate the team and predict how they will do each season

 

ive also observed that each approach doesnt like to do it the 'other' way. even more still, each side often cant understand wth anyone would want to do it the other way

 

i am definitely the latter. and to me the case is simple:

 

* all new coaches - so everybody has to get to know how each other works

* all new systems - so all the players and some of the coaches have to get to know new mechanisms

* many players playing in new positions - sometimes for the first time ever

* generally modest talent base - some mediocre to bad drafting leaves the team light on established playmakers

 

most teams have at most one of those things to deal with. this bills team has hit the jackpot and is dealing with them all at the same time

 

put it all together and my decades of football fandom says: four wins

 

or you could just have faith

 

 

 

Excellent post.

[BB Fan 4 LIFE]

I'm just curious about the make up of some of the people on here. Is it in your genes that some of you are so pessimistic of the Bills? Is it so deeply ingrained in your souls that the outlook is so bad?

 

I know that most of us here have an optimistic outlook of the Bills, no matter how bleak things have looked for a while. The majority of us have read up and studied our team and know things haven't worked out the best for years. But we realize things can go better. How can things go worse?

 

We've upgraded our D and we have a man in charge who is known for making the most of an O. If we had upgraded our O in the draft instead of the D, I bet some of you would still find something to complain about.

 

Seriously though, I'm just curious, have some of you been so pessimistic all your life?

 

I'm not saying at all that you shouldn't post. I actually like reading your points of views at times because it's good to see different aspects and views of the game. But really, pessimism can go too far.

 

I'de much rather read optimistic posts from people who do their research (like a lot of people here do).

 

Thoughts?

 

I am not a pessimistic or optimistic person, I'm objective.

 

I strip away personal feelings and passions and just look at facts.

 

Based on those facts, I predict, this year, like the past 10 years, will not be good.

 

We did not have the personnel to compete last year, and we really haven't done anything that will change that (for this season anyway).

 

That, and we are in arguably the toughest division in football.

 

I got a little passionate and excited when we brought Marv back and went optimist for a season.

 

Forgive me.

[Thurman#1]

If your son played little league soccer and you knew that soccer wasn't his game and that his team was going to get beat every game, would stop rooting for him?

 

Loving a team to death doesn't mean you are blind willfully or otherwise to their shortcomings.

 

Realistically, I think this team is a huge question mark mostly. This is a league of QB's and we don't have one who has proven himself to be a quality starter. As Buddy said, "...those that have one is winnin and those that don't aren't..."

 

We are radically changing our defense and it seems silly to me to think that you can make that kind of transition personnel wise all in one year. Could it happen? Sure, but the odds aren't good. We don't have a single solitary pass rusher on the team with any proven ability to get to the QB. The one decent threat we had there was Schobel and he is all but retired.

 

There have been no drastic improvements to what was a pretty sorry OL last year. And you have guys on the line coming off major surgeries in Wood and Bell. For rookies, Levitre and Wood did all right last year but that was grading on the rookie curve. They need to take big steps forward this year.

 

I do think that Spiller will add some options and that Chan is everything Jauron wasn't when it comes to understanding how to score points in this league.

 

Against this background, we are playing in a division full of solid teams who all appear to have made some good offseason moves to improve themselves.

 

Overall, my prediction is that they are going to have a rough year, maybe even epically rough. But I also think they are going in the right direction. They will need more than one year to get where they want to go.

 

 

Another excellent post.

[Pilsner]

Why are some of you so Pessimistic?, Dear God, good heavens why?

 

Are you for real? Do this-Get the book "The Buffalo Bills History" (if it really exists), check the Bills records for the past decade or so and see what they have in common. Ok, now if you have half a brain when you look over the past decade, you can answer your own question.

 

 

My question asked for more of an in depth reply than your answer showed. Some people here understood what I was getting at. I was asking for something

further than simple optimism or pessimism. And seriously is it too much to ask for a civil discussion

instead of barbaric personal attacks?

[Thurman#1]

...

Right now our goal should be watching players who will be around for a Super Bowl run, not getting on the case of people who think the W-L record is going to be dismal. The odds are pretty good the record will be dismal. If it's the 1st year of a rebuild, so be it. Here's something to think about. In the 1990s I used to look at old programs from the mid 80s & see how many of the guys on our really bad teams were destined to play in the Super Bowl as Bills. The 1984 team had 2 guys who made it, 1985's team had 7, and the 1986 team had 16. That 1986 team had almost 1/3 of the Super Bowl teams, yet still won only 4 games-with Jim Kelly. How many of the current Bills could be on a Super Bowl team in 3-4 years? Here's my estimate: QB -none; RB Spiller; WR Evans, Easley; TE Nelson; OL: Wood, Levitre, Meredith, Wang, Calloway; DL: Troup, Williams, Carrington; LB: Batten, Posluszny, Maybin(?), DB: Corner, Langster, McGee, McKelvin, Byrd, 1 more who stays among vets. So my total is 21, about 40% of a potential future Super Bowl team. Take 2-3 away for the optimism I have on this rookie class & it would be closer to 1/3rd. A little better numbers for the 2010 team over the 4-12 1986 team, but that team had future HOFers at QB & DE, and some more wall of famers.

 

If I conclude 4 to 5 wins for this team, it doesn't make me a pessimist if I have an eye towards the future. The optimists around here who are thinking they have to win every week, even though they know they won't will look at the small picture, "feel good" the week the Bills win that 4th game and miss the bigger picture. As I've said before, Herm Edwards had it all wrong, you don't "play to win the game" you play to win the Championship. The record a year, 2, or 3 years before that championship becomes irrelevant when you've got the Lombardi Trophy.

 

 

Yet another great post. This is a heckuva thread.

 

Great point about those late '80s teams. Some bad teams with some players who turned out to be franchise cornerstones. It's what happens when you switch systems and bring in a lot of good young players. It takes them a year or three to develop together.

 

I'd add Stroud to your list, even though there's a chance he will be too old. I think playing DE will extend his career, and he's a terrific athlete, especially for his size. Good list, though.

 

I disagree with you about the Herm Edwards quote, though. The team and the coaches should always be playing to win the game. At the same time, the front office and head coach should be planning for a future championship. On the field, though, they should play to win, but we fans can occasionally hope for losses for better draft choices and that kind of long-term thinking.

[Pilsner]

Yet another great post. This is a heckuva thread.

 

Great point about those late '80s teams. Some bad teams with some players who turned out to be franchise cornerstones. It's what happens when you switch systems and bring in a lot of good young players. It takes them a year or three to develop together.

 

I'd add Stroud to your list, even though there's a chance he will be too old. I think playing DE will extend his career, and he's a terrific athlete, especially for his size. Good list, though.

 

I disagree with you about the Herm Edwards quote, though. The team and the coaches should always be playing to win the game. At the same time, the front office and head coach should be planning for a future championship. On the field, though, they should play to win, but we fans can occasionally hope for losses for better draft choices and that kind of long-term thinking.

 

I agree. Albany made some very good points. Excellent list.

[Bill from NYC]

My question asked for more of an in depth reply than your answer showed. Some people here understood what I was getting at. I was asking for something

further than simple optimism or pessimism. And seriously is it too much to ask for a civil discussion

instead of barbaric personal attacks?

 

LOL! "Barbaric personal attacks?" Obviously you were never married.

[Thurman#1]

Nice World Cup article in ESPN by Bill Simmons... but take a look at this part... it made me laugh.

 

Question No. 11: What was the funniest thing you've read about the World Cup this month?

 

I liked Michael Davies' take on England's demise: "Americans will never completely understand how crap it is, most of the time, to be English. We might have cute accents and be good at cocktail parties. But we are mostly losers." That slayed me. England's fatalistic, self-loathing, S&M-style attitude toward its national team tops Buffalo Bills fans, Minnesota Vikings fans or even Cleveland fans.

 

 

Hah! Funny. A British friend of mine says sentiment over there is overwhelmingly in favor of Americans becoming great soccer fans and a great soccer country. My friend tells his friends at home not to wish for that because if/when America becomes good, they're going to become very very good.

 

But he says that it's not fair how Americans get the best of both worlds. When the American team wins, we gloat, and when the American team loses, we don't care, while they feel agony for the next four years when the Brits lose.

 

He had a good point.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Winston Churchill

 

I would add (to all of you who claim to be realists or "objective") that a realist sees both sides of each issue and acknowledges them.

 

A person who opines but doesn't cite both sides of a discussion, is (because he is not omniscient and all-knowing) either an optimist or a pessimist.

[Pilsner]

LOL! "Barbaric personal attacks?" Obviously you were never married.

 

 

Haha! You're right. And now getting hitched is even less enticing to me.

[Pilsner]

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Winston Churchill

 

I would add (to all of you who claim to be realists or "objective") that a realist sees both sides of each issue and acknowledges them.

 

A person who opines but doesn't cite both sides of a discussion, is (because he is not omniscient and all-knowing) either an optimist or a pessimist.

 

 

Well made point and an awsome quote as well. Churchill was a wise fellow indeed. I'm glad he was there

to lead when he was.

[San-O]

The Buffalo Bills haven't appeared in a playoff game in over ten years, will not this year, and

haven't won a playoff game in over 15 years.

 

Add to that the facts that Ralph won't sell and nobody wants to come here and you start to

see the picture.

 

 

Don't confuse pessimism with objectivity.

 

 

 

 

Jan. 2, 1999 AFC Wild Card Miami 24, Buffalo 17

 

Dec. 28, 1996 AFC Wild Card Jacksonville 30, Buffalo 27

 

Jan. 6, 1996 AFC Divisional Pittsburgh 40, Buffalo 21

 

Dec. 30, 1995 AFC Wild Card Buffalo 37, Miami 22

 

Jan. 30, 1994 Super Bowl XXVIII Dallas 30, Buffalo 13

[tonyjustbcuz]

I never said I prayed for us to win. I'm a realistic optimist. Nothing less and nothing more.

please don't put words in my mouth.

 

 

I've never heard of a realistic optimist before? Maybe the term exists, but it's new to me. I try to be a realist generally speaking and I am optimistic or pessimistic at times based on educating myself on the subject matter prior to forming my opninion. I want to be optimistic about this year's team and the directiion that we are heading into the future, and do appreciate what you are trying to convey. I cannot say at this time that I share your realistic optimism in the product that the Bills will likely offer in the upcoming season. I guess, based on the points I tried to make in my other reply I am a realistic pessimist based on what I have observed. I won't put everyone through a long blog like the other one, but I think I am not a pessimist by nature and am very well adjusted and optimistic about many other things. I hope you continue to drink from the fountain of eternal optimism pilsner, and look very much forward to your comments at the end of week #17

to see if you remain optimistic about the Bills and their future. Hope you had a nice 4th of July

[bbillyfootballcoach]

I never said I prayed for us to win. I'm a realistic optimist. Nothing less and nothing more.

please don't put words in my mouth.

i didnt say pray, i said "pray" which meant that you seem to think it matters how pessimistic we all are, it doesnt, it depends whether the bills lose or win, if they won more, we wouldnt be. U asked why, thats why, or did you just want to bash the pessimists here? Are you a trent supporter too, is that the real truth youre hiding and asking "why?" hes alot to do with it.

[Pilsner]

I've never heard of a realistic optimist before? Maybe the term exists, but it's new to me. I try to be a realist generally speaking and I am optimistic or pessimistic at times based on educating myself on the subject matter prior to forming my opninion. I want to be optimistic about this year's team and the directiion that we are heading into the future, and do appreciate what you are trying to convey. I cannot say at this time that I share your realistic optimism in the product that the Bills will likely offer in the upcoming season. I guess, based on the points I tried to make in my other reply I am a realistic pessimist based on what I have observed. I won't put everyone through a long blog like the other one, but I think I am not a pessimist by nature and am very well adjusted and optimistic about many other things. I hope you continue to drink from the fountain of eternal optimism pilsner, and look very much forward to your comments at the end of week #17

to see if you remain optimistic about the Bills and their future. Hope you had a nice 4th of July

 

 

I respect your reply Tony. I think our team will be struggling less

at week 17 than at the beginning of the season. But that goes without saying.

It will be a learning

process for the young Bills. I'm not sure yet how much we'll struggle

but I imagine it will be a lot this year. I think the ship is being righted

tho. I was out in the back yard watching the fireworks and having a good

introspective talk with my brother and checking postings on here too.

I hope you had a good 4th too Tony.

I hope you had a good 4th too Tony.

[Pilsner]

i didnt say pray, i said "pray" which meant that you seem to think it matters how pessimistic we all are, it doesnt, it depends whether the bills lose or win, if they won more, we wouldnt be. U asked why, thats why, or did you just want to bash the pessimists here? Are you a trent supporter too, is that the real truth youre hiding and asking "why?" hes alot to do with it.

 

 

How do I reply to such fabrication?

[mpl6876]

I honestly think age has some factor in all of this.

 

If you've been following this team long enough to have been a serious football fan when this team was very good some 20 years ago and not just a little kid who kind of remembers it or went to a game or two back then youunderstand just how far this organization has fallen. You also understand that while other organizations have risen and fallen in most cases many times during that period, Buffalo never seems to have been able to rebuild. I'm not saying that it's easy to get to a level of the Super Bowl Bills in the era of free agency, but to come nowhere close for such a long time really wears you down.

 

To flip it around, I'd ask the optimists what makes them think that any of the changes we've seen this year make you believe the team is finally on the right track?

 

New coach? Been there - before they were run out of town people felt Wade/Greggo/Mularkey/Jauron was the fresh faced guy who could get the most out of the talent and pull something together. Excuse me if I'm not buying it with Chan until I actually see it.

 

Front Office changes? Been there - remember when Ralph finally gave in and gave controll to Tom Donahoe and everyone thought we would soon be back on top because he was a real GM who could evaluate talent - how'd that work out? Excuse me if I don't give Buddy Nix a pass until he shows me something.

 

Young players with potential? Seen plenty of these over the years, too - from consensus picks at positions of great need (Mike Williams) down to talented guys at positions where we seemed to be OK (McGahee) to guys who we seemed to value more than other organizations (Losman, McCargo, Whitner) - how'd that work out? How many Pro Bowlers have we drafted in the past decade vs. how many guys when cut from the Bills can barely scrape a roster spot from another team in the league? You'll have to excuse me if I want Spiller to show me something before I'm ready to call it a great pick.

 

Point is, every year I see the same thing - optimists go around and slam people for being pessimistic while they tout all the reasons why "this year it's going to be different - we're going to surprise". Their reasons are straight of ouf a Mad Libs fill in the blank sheet. Then the Bills actually start playing games and get overmatched by stronger organizations and they slowly progress from cheeleaders to suicide hotline callers and end up being some of the most miserable amongst use when the team loses to Cleveland in a 6-3 home game stinker.

 

When the season ends, the only game the Bills are playing in January is golf and people are screaming that we need a new coach/GM and more talent on the team. In the offseason we'll make some moves - maybe replace the coach, maybe bring in a free agent who has nowhere else to go, draft some new kids with potential and it starts all over again - the circle of life is complete for Bills fans.

 

Personally I've learned that it's better to be a realist (you call it a pessimist) as I take another ride of this same damn broken merry-go-round and understand that when the season's over I'm pretty sure I'm going to get off the ride just about where I got on it rather than think it was actually going to take me Pasadena/Miami or where the Super Bowl was held. I still enjoy riding every Sunday and cheering for the team but I have my expectations in order that that makes the experience better overall. I'd love for things to get better and to change my approach as a fan, but at this point I'm not going to do that based on the promise of change or potential - somebody's actually got to SHOW ME SOMETHING.

 

I'd also kindly ask all the optimists to quit questioning whether realist/pessimists are "true fans" - nothing worse than a punk who was in diapers in 1990 questioning the 40 years I have invested in this team because he feels it appropriate to appoint himself some sort of Bills Taliban because he's a "diehard fan", but that's a whole separate rant....

 

Thank you for a great post. I feel some sort of vindication from the guys who have "slammed" me on my previous negative postings...

[Thurman#1]

I think many of the perpetual pessimists just choose to take the easy way out. They want to feel good no matter what the team does.

 

If the team does poorly, they will be the first to say, "See I told you." "If they would have done like I said they would be much better, but no one would listen to me." Takes the sting away from the team doing poorly.

 

Now, if the team does better than expected, they can go along and enjoy the ride. No one will likely remember that they bad mouthed the team before the season. And if someone does, who cares, because everyone else is too focused on enjoying the ride also.

 

 

 

Whereas it's totally different for you pie-eyed optimists. If the one-percent chance comes true and we make the playoffs this year, not a single one of you will say "I told you so." You are all too high-minded and principled for that.

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Thurman#1]

You seem very angry. I can help for $150 an hour.

 

 

 

You could not more perfectly have proved him right.

 

Psychobabble and a misdiagnosis.

[Thurman#1]

I think i was a bit too vague with my first post.

 

What I really was trying to get at was:

 

Are the pessimists on this board just pessimistic about the Bills are are you all pessimists in general with all things?

 

I think we all get pessimistic from time to time. It's only natural. I've read people calling themselves "realistic pessimists" on here. I consider myself a realistic optimist. Definitely not a blind optimist.

 

Realistic: I agree that our 0-line needs more talent and more experience. We are not set at QB yet. Our D needs time to learn the new system. We have a new HC and we all know what happened with the last 3.

 

Optimism: Our HC has a history of making more with less in the NFL. Our young players will gain more valuable experience this season.

 

I'm not trying to bash you pessimists. Just trying to understand my fellow fans. We're all in this together.

 

The more successful people in life seem to have a more optimistic view rather than a pessimistic. I hope that most of you pessimists don't let the pessimism control your whole viewpoint on life.

 

I think most HC's are realistic about the talent they have and are also optimistic/positive about their abilities to mold and make a team into a contender and win.

 

Ok it's the 4th of July and it's time to clean up and fire up the grill. I wish all you optimists, realists, pessimists, and every combination a Happy 4th of July!

 

Go Bills!!

 

Oh and Red, I was in HS during the glory years too. Started watching the Bills in 87-88

 

 

 

I'm a realist in all things.

 

When I give money to an alcoholic bum, I'm pessimistic that he's going to use it for anything but alcohol. Nonetheless, I usually give a bit. When I look out the door and there are grey clouds in the sky and the air feels heavy, I usually figure it's going to rain and I bring along an umbrella. Experience has shown me that when I give people some good advice, most times they will ignore it. Nonetheless, if asked, I give my honest opinion and offer any support I can give, while understanding that only a very few people will actually change their behavior, so I guess you would say I'm pessimistic, but life sure seems to match my expectations. And I know I've ignored good advice all too often myself, and cursed myself later.

 

I'm now married to the greatest woman in the world, but back in the old days, when women said "Let's just be friends," I didn't expect them to call me up all the time to maintain our friendship. One or two did, and I'm still friendly with them today. A large majority actually meant that they didn't want to spend time with me at all. And I especially didn't think "Gee, maybe if I give her flowers every day and hang out on the sidewalk in front of her apartment, maybe she'll see what she missed all along, that I'm the guy for her."

 

Noticing that things look bad isn't pessimism.

 

On the other hand, I've started two successful small businesses, and that took a lot of optimism, but I had good plans and knew there was a niche there. I've dated a lot of women because I had enough optimism to figure that if I asked a lot of women out, some would say yes. When it's sunny and there's not a cloud in the sky and the air is light and dry, I don't bring an umbrella.

 

I call that realism.

 

When things look good, I notice and act on it. When things look bad, I don't ignore it, I act on that too. In my opinion, people who see all the data which indicates a bad outcome and ignore it and push on into a preventable wreck aren't optimists, they're idiots.

 

When it's a whiteout on the Thruway with visibility of five feet, you know what, I get myself a hotel and lie in. If that is pessimism, call me a pessimist.

[Thurman#1]

I have no problem with people evaluating the team, seeing holes and question marks,

wondering why they did or didn't make certain moves and then based on their opinion saying

its going to be a rough season in the win column for the Bills.

 

I also understand being cautious about what to expect from Nix, Whaley, Gailey, etc.

because we have been through coaching and GM turnovers that didn't work out and

sometimes change doesn't mean improvement.

 

What I have a problem with is the people who guess 0-2 wins (we had six last year

amidst a perfect storm of problems), trash players on the team (not evaluating how good

they are or not or if we should stick with them, but just throwing out personal attacks),

failing to recognize the talented players we do have (like one post I read that said everyone

of our starters could be upgraded by third stringers from other teams), etc., etc.

 

I have no problem being realistic about the team (even though I'm one who is optimistic),

but how realistic is 1 win? How realistic is "we don't have one player that would start for

another team?"

 

There is a spectrum of optimism and pessimism and anyone on either extreme is not being

realistic. The rest of us can discuss the issues, players, moves, coaching, etc. We can be critical

of the team or players while still supporting them and not attack them personally.

 

We're all Bills fans...but I think what people get tired of are not the people who aren't optimistic

(trying to be realistic) about this upcoming season or coaching staff or whatever, but the ones

who can never see anything positive about the team and trash the team any chance they get.

 

 

 

This is the kind of optimism that I both get and respect.