stevewin Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Vincent is now admitting his knee injury is the same that put Stephen Davis out for the season. WGR Davis ended up having microfracture surgery - and some believe the injury may threaten his career. RB Stephen Davis (knee) will visit Dr. James Andrews Monday, Nov. 15, as a precursor to possibly undergoing the controversial microfracture surgery. A piece of bone cartilage has chipped off of Davis' knee. Not only will Davis miss the remainder of the 2004 season after being placed on Injured Reserve, the injury may now also threaten the remainder of his career. If he does not have the surgery, Davis would likely continue to be bothered by swelling in his knee. If he does undergo microfracture surgery, he would face a lengthy recovery period. KFFL I think the insinuations that TV isn't tough or doesn't want to play dinged up are way off base. I believe the nature of the injury is that it is just very difficult to recover from - to the point where in some cases more drastic measures have been taken as with Davis' microfracture surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 WGR Davis ended up having microfracture surgery - and some believe the injury may threaten his career. KFFL I think the insinuations that TV isn't tough or doesn't want to play dinged up are way off base. I believe the nature of the injury is that it is just very difficult to recover from - to the point where in some cases more drastic measures have been taken as with Davis' microfracture surgery. 142487[/snapback] Timmah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 TV needs a bandana and a Colt .45 to perfect his bank robber outfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 this won't quiet the crowd.......according to the masses here, TD should have known he would get his knee injured and thus, should never have signed him........ i still find it amazing that so many people who praised the move at the time now call it stupid...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 this won't quiet the crowd.......according to the masses here, TD should have known he would get his knee injured and thus, should never have signed him........ i still find it amazing that so many people who praised the move at the time now call it stupid...... 142510[/snapback] No problem with the move on TD's part. My problem is why isnt he on IR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 No problem with the move on TD's part. My problem is why isnt he on IR? 142513[/snapback] because he could still come back and contribute down the stretch.......and if his rehab went better, he could have been back much sooner -- hindsight is 20/20.......regardless, i think the benefits of that happening far outweigh carrying an extra body........i don't think we've really missed the spot...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 because he could still come back and contribute down the stretch.......and if his rehab went better, he could have been back much sooner -- hindsight is 20/20.......regardless, i think the benefits of that happening far outweigh carrying an extra body........i don't think we've really missed the spot...... 142521[/snapback] Down the stretch? No thanks. The chemistry the team seems to have doesn't need to be disrupted. TV looked like crap early in the year when he played. So after seemingly all season out we are just going to insert him back into the lineup....dangerous IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 No problem with the move on TD's part. My problem is why isnt he on IR? 142513[/snapback] Who out there is going to help more than a healthy Troy Vincent? Unlike some people, I don't pretend to know how to diagnose an injury. I also understand that Doctors are on occasion wrong in their timeline. That's from personal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Who out there is going to help more than a healthy Troy Vincent? Unlike some people, I don't pretend to know how to diagnose an injury. I also understand that Doctors are on occasion wrong in their timeline. That's from personal experience. 142529[/snapback] ICE man when Vincent is healthy it will be July.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Okay where do we put him? Safety or Corner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiminy Cricket Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 TV has been a huge disappointment this season. I agree with the signing and also agree with the cut he will receive after the season is over. The Bills already have enough past knee injuries to worry about they don't need to add another. Let him be injured on another team. The team has successfully filled his and AW's void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Okay where do we put him? Safety or Corner? 142533[/snapback] like you, i'm in no rush to disrupt the chemistry........however, he is better then our dime corner, and that is where i'd like to see him start at........his play from there dictates whether his role increases....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiminy Cricket Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Okay where do we put him? Safety or Corner? 142533[/snapback] Neither. Cut him loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 ICE man when Vincent is healthy it will be July.... 142530[/snapback] Like I said, Doctors are occasionally wrong on their timelines. Stevestojan happens. I hurt my ankle pretty good (stretched/strained all the ligaments in it). The doctor told me I'd be back in 6 weeks, good as new. It was six months before I could do anything competitive. Doctors are human and are basically making educated guesses. Apparently ours were right about Willis and wrong about TV. Life goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Neither. Cut him loose. 142539[/snapback] ICE may play a doctor on television but believe me you and I don't. The concept of microfractures has been around for a while, but knowledge of their effects on an athlete's performance is still a new frontier of medical/athletic diagnosis as the MRI and other imaging technology is just beginning to catch up to ou ability to theorize causes and try to come up with fixes for fractures. Microfractures are just what they sound like which is very snall breaks in the bone or joint which for reasons beyond our understanding may be the cause of a player never regaining what we talk about as that extra step or extra gear in terms of speed. Though undetectable by most (if not all) current imaging (x-rays, cat (or CT) scans and MRIs, microfractures may actually be the cause of debilitating pain which stops a player from putting weight onto a bone (the body saying stop stressing an area so I can heal) or enough pain that a player can walk fine, but it flares up when he runs or cuts. The modern athlete may be performing at such a high level of torque and stress that this problem emerges for him and shows itself in that he simply cannot play like he used to. The "toughness" of a player CAN be a factor in this as the injury may be one which does not get worse but simply causes pain. However, pain has a purpose in the body as it is the way our body tells our brains not to do something. Though microfractures are tough or impossible to see, there can be evidence that the experienced eye can see and interpret that it is the cause. Its tough because players need to accurately report pain to the docs and the NFL way historically is to simply say put me in coach regardless of the pain. The WM call by Bills docs was an interesting case as virtually all NFL docs simply labeled him not worthy of a first round pick (given the unknown and their team needs) but the Bills docs seemed to infer from the tears WM suffered being relatively clean and in spots which can heal themselves that with appropriate diligence and time he could not only recover normally but do the quick moves that made him a good athlete. This dissertation all goes to say that simply indicting TV as a maligerer or a weenie is not as straight-forward as many fans would like. The facts are he has a history of production as shown by his INT numbers, respect from fellow players (opposing QBs in particular who chose not to go his way and opposing WRs who often paid for receptions over the middle), Pro Bowl selections (not a perfect measure at all but an indicator) and the respect of his colleagues as shown by his election as NFLPA president that he is not a malingerer or a weenie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 ICE may play a doctor on television but believe me you and I don't. The concept of microfractures has been around for a while, but knowledge of their effects on an athlete's performance is still a new frontier of medical/athletic diagnosis as the MRI and other imaging technology is just beginning to catch up to ou ability to theorize causes and try to come up with fixes for fractures. Microfractures are just what they sound like which is very snall breaks in the bone or joint which for reasons beyond our understanding may be the cause of a player never regaining what we talk about as that extra step or extra gear in terms of speed. Though undetectable by most (if not all) current imaging (x-rays, cat (or CT) scans and MRIs, microfractures may actually be the cause of debilitating pain which stops a player from putting weight onto a bone (the body saying stop stressing an area so I can heal) or enough pain that a player can walk fine, but it flares up when he runs or cuts. The modern athlete may be performing at such a high level of torque and stress that this problem emerges for him and shows itself in that he simply cannot play like he used to. The "toughness" of a player CAN be a factor in this as the injury may be one which does not get worse but simply causes pain. However, pain has a purpose in the body as it is the way our body tells our brains not to do something. Though microfractures are tough or impossible to see, there can be evidence that the experienced eye can see and interpret that it is the cause. Its tough because players need to accurately report pain to the docs and the NFL way historically is to simply say put me in coach regardless of the pain. The WM call by Bills docs was an interesting case as virtually all NFL docs simply labeled him not worthy of a first round pick (given the unknown and their team needs) but the Bills docs seemed to infer from the tears WM suffered being relatively clean and in spots which can heal themselves that with appropriate diligence and time he could not only recover normally but do the quick moves that made him a good athlete. This dissertation all goes to say that simply indicting TV as a maligerer or a weenie is not as straight-forward as many fans would like. The facts are he has a history of production as shown by his INT numbers, respect from fellow players (opposing QBs in particular who chose not to go his way and opposing WRs who often paid for receptions over the middle), Pro Bowl selections (not a perfect measure at all but an indicator) and the respect of his colleagues as shown by his election as NFLPA president that he is not a malingerer or a weenie. 142557[/snapback] Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Bruce Smith have microfracture surgery back around '91 or '92? I thought that was the procedure where they drilled very small holes in your kneecap, on the theory that it somehow stimulates cartilage? As I recall, Bruce did okay by it...but his recovery took about a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick in* england Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Like I said, Doctors are occasionally wrong on their timelines. Stevestojan happens. I hurt my ankle pretty good (stretched/strained all the ligaments in it). The doctor told me I'd be back in 6 weeks, good as new. It was six months before I could do anything competitive. Doctors are human and are basically making educated guesses. Apparently ours were right about Willis and wrong about TV. Life goes on. 142540[/snapback] My doc told me i had a sprain and that i should ice it and i'd be back on the field in 6 weeks to 3 months... It was broken and I haven't done anything for 9 months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICE Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 When TV had the injury this staff and the docs knew what it was. they kept it under wraps for some stupid assed reason. They should have put his ass on IR Way back when. So far he has taken up cap space for nothing. LMAO you fools crack me up. We have ol Darin whining about an ankle injury that should have only taken 6 weeks to heal but took 6 months. It's called being a puss. look folks you guys get your asses up in the air when I challenge a players injury vs time to get back. Maybe that is because you are totally ignorant or maybie I actually do know. I will digress and go with 'because you are totally ignorant' I have had major injuries I have been around major injuries. I have seen men that actually WORK for a living come back in 6 weeks or less to a very tough and demanding job after having 2 disks fused. I know of WOMEN, WOMEN that have had full ACL blowouts WALKING the VERY NEXT DAY! 3 months they are starting to compete again (softball/vollyball) the only guys I see having this really tough time are pro football players that have their money guarenteed if they are injured. Not past this year, but it sure is tough to cut a guy due to injury. You have to reach an injury settlement then BANG! All of a sudden they get healthy again to go play for more money. Funny how people with only X Amount of sickleave/ short term disability, who don't make as much being off as they do when on the job, sure seem to recover faster than some pro athlete. so sit back and talk your stupid sh-- and make your stupid assed little comments all you want. Bottom line is, if you are tough enough you make it back...AHEAD of schedule. OH BTW....it is pathetic when some kitty assed pro player doesn't have the toughness of some 70+ year old man. Go read on the front page of TSW how Marv Levy made it back WAY Ahead of schedule from Prostate Cancer. Then come back and tell me just how tough it is to come back from a knee, ankle etc. Fuggin pussys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICE Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I forgot to add, the 13 year old soccer player (girl) next door is back playing 4 months after breaking her ankle, snapping two tendons off in the process. 4 screws and 6 weeks in an isolated brace to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I forgot to add, the 13 year old soccer player (girl) next door is back playing 4 months after breaking her ankle, snapping two tendons off in the process. 4 screws and 6 weeks in an isolated brace to boot. 142620[/snapback] 4 months???? Damn she is a joke. If you ranted at her the way you do some of the Bills players, she should have been back 2 weeks later. Doesn't she understand teamwork? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICE Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 4 months???? Damn she is a joke. If you ranted at her the way you do some of the Bills players, she should have been back 2 weeks later. Doesn't she understand teamwork? 142633[/snapback] Actually her parents and the place that she had the surgery allowed me to help rehab her. WHAT? Yeah good ol ICE that knows nothing. I knew her Doc and he easilly agreed I should assist. but damn, I don't know anything. Oh and to your stupid post, don't you mean 'two weeks EARLIER'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Actually her parents and the place that she had the surgery allowed me to help rehab her. WHAT? Yeah good ol ICE that knows nothing. I knew her Doc and he easilly agreed I should assist. but damn, I don't know anything. Oh and to your stupid post, don't you mean 'two weeks EARLIER'? 142643[/snapback] No she should have been back two weeks later. As in two weeks after the injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted December 2, 2004 Author Share Posted December 2, 2004 I know of WOMEN, WOMEN that have had full ACL blowouts WALKING the VERY NEXT DAY! 3 months they are starting to compete again (softball/vollyball) I have no doubt that TV could have come back this week to play in your friends co-ed softball and volleyball leagues. I do doubt, however, that your friends when they started to 'compete' again would have been able to cover the best athletes on the planet. It is not just pain we are talking about - its functionality, speed and mobility to be able to play at the premiere level required in the N Friggin FL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick in* england Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 LMAO you fools crack me up. We have ol Darin whining about an ankle injury that should have only taken 6 weeks to heal but took 6 months. It's called being a puss. -SNIP- Fuggin pussys. 142616[/snapback] I am so tempted to fly over the the US, find you and break your ankle and see how quick YOU recover... Making you whine like a B word while I twist your leg until your ankle pops, the bone braks and your tendons snap off and flip over the bone would really find out who's a fuggin kitty... It's all down to level of care, speed of diagnosis, quality of diagnosis, quality of treatment, how the body responds to treatment, yadda yadda yadda. Pro athlete or just me - it's different case-by-case. Not how much of a kitty you are or not. And while I don't have to prove anything to you - I am sure Darin feels the same - the docs who have treated me since my ankle claim the nature of the injury i sustained would have had 99% of the population in plaster for 6 months. I had one for 2 days. So bite me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Monkey Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Actually her parents and the place that she had the surgery allowed me to help rehab her. WHAT? Yeah good ol ICE that knows nothing. I knew her Doc and he easilly agreed I should assist. but damn, I don't know anything. Oh and to your stupid post, don't you mean 'two weeks EARLIER'? 142643[/snapback] Your rehabbing a 13 year old girl?? What's in it for you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Eagles fans I talked to said Vincent looked old and played old the last couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Your rehabbing a 13 year old girl?? What's in it for you?? 142670[/snapback] You know as stupid as Ice is being on this and many others, your post here is completely uncalled for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 You know as stupid as Ice is being on this and many others, your post here is completely uncalled for. 142694[/snapback] i dont see why you would say this...all it imply's is that he thinks ICE is a selfish poster/person and asks what must ICE be getting out of helping anybody...while I dont hate ICE or anything ...I still find most of his posts selfish drivel and nonsense...but with the emergence of blackbear I feel most ppl will stop dislikeing ICE so much and start a blackbear bashing commitee..lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 When TV had the injury this staff and the docs knew what it was. they kept it under wraps for some stupid assed reason. They should have put his ass on IR Way back when. So far he has taken up cap space for nothing. LMAO you fools crack me up. We have ol Darin whining about an ankle injury that should have only taken 6 weeks to heal but took 6 months. It's called being a puss. look folks you guys get your asses up in the air when I challenge a players injury vs time to get back. Maybe that is because you are totally ignorant or maybie I actually do know. I will digress and go with 'because you are totally ignorant' I have had major injuries I have been around major injuries. I have seen men that actually WORK for a living come back in 6 weeks or less to a very tough and demanding job after having 2 disks fused. I know of WOMEN, WOMEN that have had full ACL blowouts WALKING the VERY NEXT DAY! 3 months they are starting to compete again (softball/vollyball) the only guys I see having this really tough time are pro football players that have their money guarenteed if they are injured. Not past this year, but it sure is tough to cut a guy due to injury. You have to reach an injury settlement then BANG! All of a sudden they get healthy again to go play for more money. Funny how people with only X Amount of sickleave/ short term disability, who don't make as much being off as they do when on the job, sure seem to recover faster than some pro athlete. so sit back and talk your stupid sh-- and make your stupid assed little comments all you want. Bottom line is, if you are tough enough you make it back...AHEAD of schedule. OH BTW....it is pathetic when some kitty assed pro player doesn't have the toughness of some 70+ year old man. Go read on the front page of TSW how Marv Levy made it back WAY Ahead of schedule from Prostate Cancer. Then come back and tell me just how tough it is to come back from a knee, ankle etc. Fuggin pussys. 142616[/snapback] ICE, didn't you blow out a knee or elbow or something that you had to rehab for a full year before you could compete in athletics again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Monkey Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 You know as stupid as Ice is being on this and many others, your post here is completely uncalled for. 142694[/snapback] Guess I was just surprised he was helping someone, but I can see how you took it a different way. Get your mind out of the gutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I am so tempted to fly over the the US, find you and break your ankle and see how quick YOU recover... Making you whine like a B word while I twist your leg until your ankle pops, the bone braks and your tendons snap off and flip over the bone would really find out who's a fuggin kitty... It's all down to level of care, speed of diagnosis, quality of diagnosis, quality of treatment, how the body responds to treatment, yadda yadda yadda. Pro athlete or just me - it's different case-by-case. Not how much of a kitty you are or not. And while I don't have to prove anything to you - I am sure Darin feels the same - the docs who have treated me since my ankle claim the nature of the injury i sustained would have had 99% of the population in plaster for 6 months. I had one for 2 days. So bite me. 142667[/snapback] Give 'em hell Harry, er...Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I am so tempted to fly over the the US, find you and break your ankle and see how quick YOU recover... Making you whine like a B word while I twist your leg until your ankle pops, the bone braks and your tendons snap off and flip over the bone would really find out who's a fuggin kitty... It's all down to level of care, speed of diagnosis, quality of diagnosis, quality of treatment, how the body responds to treatment, yadda yadda yadda. Pro athlete or just me - it's different case-by-case. Not how much of a kitty you are or not. And while I don't have to prove anything to you - I am sure Darin feels the same - the docs who have treated me since my ankle claim the nature of the injury i sustained would have had 99% of the population in plaster for 6 months. I had one for 2 days. So bite me. 142667[/snapback] Thanks for saving me the trouble. I feel so down ICE thinks I'm a puss. He is my hero after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 ICE, didn't you blow out a knee or elbow or something that you had to rehab for a full year before you could compete in athletics again? 142749[/snapback] Yeah, by his own account it was worse than Willis'. Of course, he's full of stevestojan on pretty much everything so it's likely the injury was nothing more than a bruised labia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Monkey Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 ...bruised labia. 143049[/snapback] Good One!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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