Bills in Niagara Falls?

[agardin]

If ( a big if ) a new stadium was going to be built, why not right downtown Buffalo. There is plenty of space. Tourists who want to see the falls can hop on a tour bus, look at it for 30mins and then head back downtown for some wings. I love the Ralph but I wouldn't have put it where it is, in the middle of nowhere with no real transportation options but driving and with no surrounding restaurants and bars. Stick in a part of town where tailgaters can get to it easily, people staying in Hotels downtown can walk to it in 15 or 20 mins and use it as a sprinboard for other development in the city core. Cleveland did a nice job on their new stadium. I live in Toronto and go to 3-4 games a year, so if this doesn't make sense to the people that actually live in the area then let me know. If I recall there was a lot of stuff about a Bass Pro Shops coming to the waterfront and that was going to save a development deal a new stadium right downtown would be better...no?

[Red]

I like the American side idea. I wonder what amenities Jim Kelly would like to have in the owners box?

 

Even now the televised games have cutaway shots of the falls.

 

Imagine this shot.. the falls at night, then the camera pulls back and in the foreground is the new stadium (sans dome) filled with red and blue bills fans. While I'm at it the scoreboard should show the Bills up 35-10 on the patriots. Put them in throwback unis too.

 

I'll bet we would get some prime tv time slots. People would want to see this thing. Hell, we might even eclipse Fairy Jones and his billion dollar monstrosity.

 

F the cowboys, F the patriots!

 

Judman, I share your sympathies to the Pats and Cowboys, but you miss the point of calling them the BUFFALO Bills in the 1st place.

 

The cameramen use Niagara Falls as a backdrop already and the Bills are all the way out in Orchard Park. What I think would be more thoughtful, is to see a Monday Night game in November, snowing, stadium packed with red, white, and blue raucous fans shown from the Goodyear blimp high above the City of Buffalo. The way the Steelers stadium looks IN Pittsburgh.

 

The Bills should be in Buffalo. Otherwise, their name should be changed. "Oh yeah. I love the Buffalo Bills!....with their stadium in...Orchard...Park....."

[Red]

If ( a big if ) a new stadium was going to be built, why not right downtown Buffalo. There is plenty of space. Tourists who want to see the falls can hop on a tour bus, look at it for 30mins and then head back downtown for some wings. I love the Ralph but I wouldn't have put it where it is, in the middle of nowhere with no real transportation options but driving and with no surrounding restaurants and bars. Stick in a part of town where tailgaters can get to it easily, people staying in Hotels downtown can walk to it in 15 or 20 mins and use it as a sprinboard for other development in the city core. Cleveland did a nice job on their new stadium. I live in Toronto and go to 3-4 games a year, so if this doesn't make sense to the people that actually live in the area then let me know. If I recall there was a lot of stuff about a Bass Pro Shops coming to the waterfront and that was going to save a development deal a new stadium right downtown would be better...no?

 

 

Finally, a man with sense.

 

My argument exactly. WNY needs whatever money it can get since manufacturing is just about gone. The Bills are a prime-time ticket, and we should consolidate our services (Bills, Sabres, Bisons, theatre district, etc) and make them top notch so that people looking to spend their cash will want to stay in Buffalo. Baltimore has it right, with the Ravens and Orioles next to each other, and right on the waterfront. Buffalo should follow the Baltimore model.

 

And I agree, that once the game is over, restaurants will be packed! People will be hungry, and the money, once again will stay in Buffalo. Let Bass Pro develop, and retail will begin to flourish all along the area. Buffalo can focus on chicken wings, beef on weck, pizza, etc for the tourists. And with all of the extra things to offer, people will finally have a reason to come downtown, and maybe all of the drunken riff-raff that ruins what could be a great family experience of a game will stop coming.

 

Let the Falls get all of the Casinos. Buffalo should get the Bills.

 

I can never understand why UB is in Amherst, either...should be downtown.

[Pat7s]

Finally, a man with sense.

 

My argument exactly. WNY needs whatever money it can get since manufacturing is just about gone. The Bills are a prime-time ticket, and we should consolidate our services (Bills, Sabres, Bisons, theatre district, etc) and make them top notch so that people looking to spend their cash will want to stay in Buffalo. Baltimore has it right, with the Ravens and Orioles next to each other, and right on the waterfront. Buffalo should follow the Baltimore model.

 

And I agree, that once the game is over, restaurants will be packed! People will be hungry, and the money, once again will stay in Buffalo. Let Bass Pro develop, and retail will begin to flourish all along the area. Buffalo can focus on chicken wings, beef on weck, pizza, etc for the tourists. And with all of the extra things to offer, people will finally have a reason to come downtown, and maybe all of the drunken riff-raff that ruins what could be a great family experience of a game will stop coming.

 

Let the Falls get all of the Casinos. Buffalo should get the Bills.

 

I can never understand why UB is in Amherst, either...should be downtown.

 

 

Everyone has always wanted it downtown, along the lake, where the dead steel plant sits rotting. I love that idea... BUT:

 

the amount of money it would cost to make that land safe in a short period of time in order to build a stadium would be staggering. That's not simply land that has nothing on it but rotting buildings. It's fenced off for a reason: massive pollution. MASSIVE. It would take 10's of millions of dollars just to clean it up... if not hundreds.

 

That's the thing no one realizes or thinks about. Buffalo is an old city with a lot of crap under it's surface. The danger to employees and fans is too great. You can not build over it either. So you add the clean up cost to the stadium costs... plus the fact Buffalo is a dirty union city (not a union city, a dirty union city, big difference). The blood suckers would sink their teeth in, massively over charge the tax payers who you better believe would have to pay for it, and everything would be done half-assed. Government officials would pocket millions and once again a few get rich while all of you spend the little money you have just to get the team to the city.

 

If the unthinkable happened though and a stadium was build in the city, then it has to be a dome. There is no argument here. You can NOT have a major stadium sit in downtown Buffalo and not generate revenue for a huge chunk of the year. You have to be able to host major concerts and events in it as well as other sporting events (UB football, Syracuse basketball maybe, a UFL team, a Sabres game, anything really). Plus, you have to give the average person who simply is not a fan of sitting in the cold or rain with a bunch of drunks a place to enjoy themselves. You have to give yourself a chance of holding College Bowl games and a Super Bowl. You have to have a dome, or else the stadium downtown will never ever work.

[tomc702]

can't we build it alongside the OZ theme park?

[Guest dog14787]

I think building a new stadium near the Falls would help improve the atmosphere on the American side greatly and what it would do for the region as a whole way out numbers what a new stadium in Buffalo would do for the City. Myself personally, a Dome with retractable roof would be ideal because of the nasty weather conditions. Plus by doing so would one day allow us to host a Superbowl.

 

Look at the bigger picture...

[SouthernMan]

2. There would also be a lot more money available for building a modern stadium (with a dome that should have been built in Orchard Park.) Sellouts would be more likely because of it being a dome as well as being located between Buffalo and Toronto.

 

Maybe a dome is more attractive to you, but I would absolutely hate dome - unless it was fully retractable.

 

There's nothing like a crisp fall sweatshirt weather day with a football game being played under the canopy of blue sky.

 

Domes? Uggghhh!

 

As far as saying a dome should have been built in OP in the first place, it's almost for certain that the Bills would be in some other city, had a dome been built. Every other dome that's been built from that era is gone. The Colts, Lions, Seahawks, and others have seen domes come and go. The Falcons, who opened their dome in 1992, are talking about a new stadium, with proposed ground breaking in 2012. The Vikings want a stadium. The Saints were talking about replacing the superdome.

 

If the Bills had built that Lancaster or Orchard Park domed stadium back in the early 70's (as some proposed), they'd now be long gone, unless someone had come up with the money to fund a new stadium. Considering what they had to do just for some basic renovation to "The Ralph" 10+ years ago, the millions for a state of the art 21st century facility seems like a pipe dream.

 

The convention center/multi-use argument always comes up when talking new stadium. If that were to be the case, then a Niagara Falls retractable dome facility makes more sense than anything on the waterfront. As a previous post pointed out, the environmental studies and cleanup around the old steel mills will cost a small fortune. Considering the current US economy, I don't see the feds going out of their way to help with the effort.

 

Another post in this thread pointed out the economic boost from the downtown stadium. For 8 or 9 games a year?

 

The NFL is an exclusive club, and there may be someone or some group with deep pockets, waiting in the wings, who wants to own a team. Anyone with business sense can see that WNY already has a love affair with the team, and there's an extended fan base eastward in NY State and northward into Canada. Moving the team could be a big mistake.

 

Where are they gonna go? L.A.? I think Jacksonville, San Diego, or the Raidahs would do better in LA. Personally, I don't think any team would do that great in LaLa Land in the long run. Maybe when it's all shiny and new, but LA is not a football town. They've already been home to 3 of the 32 existing franchises. How many chances do they get?

 

The Bills in the Falls could be the beginning of the revival that Niagara Falls NY needs. A multi-purpose retractable dome at the falls would probably bring a superbowl to the area. It could be a selling point for the autumn tourist market in NF. A lot of people making the trip to the Falls might want to take in an NFL game. Although most of us have enjoyed multiple games, many people, often from foreign countries or small towns, have never attended one. It'd be a great way to expand the Bill's global fan base.

 

The one glitch may be the casinos. The NFL tries to distance itself from the world of gambling (as much as they probably love it), so that may be an issue.

 

No dome in downtown. That would be a huge mistake. I can't imagine having a beautiful 65 degree fall day in October, and being couped up in some oversized circus tent.

 

I don't know if Kelly is just a dreamer, but I have to think he's got something brewing, otherwise, why would he continue to allude to his conviction that he Bills are not leaving? NFL is big business, and the toursists at the Falls could pick up the slack that the tired WNY economy can't support.

[PromoTheRobot]

This whole thing about the "Niagara Falls Bills" is ridiculous. Most NFL teams don't even play in the cities they are named after. East Rutherford Giants? Santa Clara 49ers? Davie Dolphins? Arlington Cowboys? Hyattsville Redskins? Anaheim Rams? So why are the Bills an exception?

 

As for Downtown Buffalo, while it makes some sense to locate there, all you are doing is dropping a billion dollars down a hole. Just look at all the development HSBC brought to the foot of main Street...none. How about all the thriving businesses in Orchard Park surrounding RWS...zippo, unless you count people parking cars on their lawns. You want to build a stadium close to stuff, like the NF tourism district, and that does include the Canadian side. And it HAS TO BE A DOME! The Bills haven't been a cold-weather team since Jim Kelly and while you may want to freeze your butt off I can assure you few people do...and many free agents avoid Buffalo because of the weather.

 

Niagara Falls is already identified with Buffalo. Has there ever been a TV broadcast of a Buffalo sporting event that didn't include a shot of the Falls?

 

PTR

[Just Jack]

Imagine this shot.. the falls at night, then the camera pulls back and in the foreground is the new stadium (sans dome) filled with red and blue bills fans.

That's the vision I get every time I think about having a stadium at the falls. It needs to be within site of the falls, not miles away.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I think its a long time coming that New York State actually use some of the tax money on city's like Buffalo. They keep wasting money on New York City and its surrounding areas. Buffalonian's should be outraged that a major portion of their taxes go to support the antics of NYC. They owe Buffalo a stadium.

I'd LOOOVVVE to see your data on this.

[PromoTheRobot]

That's the vision I get every time I think about having a stadium at the falls. It needs to be within site of the falls, not miles away.

I'm a firm believer in it being a dome. I suppose it could be retractable but I worry that would add hundreds of millions to the cost, all for the one or two days a year you'd want the roof open. Plus a dome would ensure events year-round. You could bid for a Final Four or a bowl game with a dome. Face it, there are far more bad weather days than good in WNY.

 

PTR

[DUTE]

Lastly, think about free agents visiting the Bills seeing a gorgeous domed stadium and tourist area outside. Fun stuff to do and they won't have to play in the cold. It would do wonders for the team's image.

 

PTR

 

Interesting points and i agree to an extent. However, Niagara Falls Ontario would need A LOT (and i mean a **** load) of fixing up. NF is way overrated! There would be nothing for pro football players to do here lmfao! All the tourist stuff here is a joke and the corniest stuff u will find anywhere! If you dont believe me then try spending a night in NF and you will see haha. The only thing we got going is the Casino and a bigass hilton. NF is a pleasant place take your family for a nice weekend vacation and nothin more, dont expect to be partyin at a club or somethin. Oh and did i mention that we dont even got a freakin mall in NF! Youd think that NF would be the perfect place for an incredible mall but there is nothin, i have to do all my shopping in the states. And finally, NF's downtown is so crowded! There is no room to build a stadium and they would have to demolish a quarter of the city to make one.

 

But fwiw i think it would be a great market for the Bills because it is the falls. But they would need to put a TON of money to fix this place up and i just dont see that happening. SO TO EVERYONE HERE I SAY FORGET NIAGARA FALLS AS A REALISTIC POSSIBILITY BECAUSE ITS NOT

[PromoTheRobot]

I'd LOOOVVVE to see your data on this.

It's more likely NYC keeps WNY afloat.

 

PTR

[Red]

Everyone has always wanted it downtown, along the lake, where the dead steel plant sits rotting. I love that idea... BUT:

 

the amount of money it would cost to make that land safe in a short period of time in order to build a stadium would be staggering. That's not simply land that has nothing on it but rotting buildings. It's fenced off for a reason: massive pollution. MASSIVE. It would take 10's of millions of dollars just to clean it up... if not hundreds.

 

That's the thing no one realizes or thinks about. Buffalo is an old city with a lot of crap under it's surface. The danger to employees and fans is too great. You can not build over it either. So you add the clean up cost to the stadium costs... plus the fact Buffalo is a dirty union city (not a union city, a dirty union city, big difference). The blood suckers would sink their teeth in, massively over charge the tax payers who you better believe would have to pay for it, and everything would be done half-assed. Government officials would pocket millions and once again a few get rich while all of you spend the little money you have just to get the team to the city.

 

If the unthinkable happened though and a stadium was build in the city, then it has to be a dome. There is no argument here. You can NOT have a major stadium sit in downtown Buffalo and not generate revenue for a huge chunk of the year. You have to be able to host major concerts and events in it as well as other sporting events (UB football, Syracuse basketball maybe, a UFL team, a Sabres game, anything really). Plus, you have to give the average person who simply is not a fan of sitting in the cold or rain with a bunch of drunks a place to enjoy themselves. You have to give yourself a chance of holding College Bowl games and a Super Bowl. You have to have a dome, or else the stadium downtown will never ever work.

 

I hear you on the dirty union city thing.

 

I don't agree with a dome, though. HSBC arena is all the dome needed for concerts.

[PromoTheRobot]

Interesting points and i agree to an extent. However, Niagara Falls Ontario would need A LOT (and i mean a **** load) of fixing up. NF is way overrated! There would be nothing for pro football players to do here lmfao! All the tourist stuff here is a joke and the corniest stuff u will find anywhere! If you dont believe me then try spending a night in NF and you will see haha. The only thing we got going is the Casino and a bigass hilton. NF is a pleasant place take your family for a nice weekend vacation and nothin more, dont expect to be partyin at a club or somethin. Oh and did i mention that we dont even got a freakin mall in NF! Youd think that NF would be the perfect place for an incredible mall but there is nothin, i have to do all my shopping in the states. And finally, NF's downtown is so crowded! There is no room to build a stadium and they would have to demolish a quarter of the city to make one.

 

But fwiw i think it would be a great market for the Bills because it is the falls. But they would need to put a TON of money to fix this place up and i just dont see that happening. SO TO EVERYONE HERE I SAY FORGET NIAGARA FALLS AS A REALISTIC POSSIBILITY BECAUSE ITS NOT

Actually if you look at a satellite view of NF you'd see a lot of empty land. There are blocks of land east of the casino and waterpark There's a block and a half north of the casino and east of the Days Inn closer to the falls. Besides, if you had to tear down most of downtown, what's the loss? Last I saw it was all boarded up.

 

NF, ON has plenty of clubs, casinos, the ballet...stuff an NFL free agent who's worried about partying would be attracted to. No question the US side would need help. That's why I propose, along with a stadium, they also build an entertainment complex ala Patriot* Place. In fact you already have an empty Rainbow Mall that could be converted to that use. Would that make the US side as good as the Canadian side, maybe not. But it would create the kind of attractions you would need for major stadium events. So even if NF, NY is only busy when the Bills play, or when another big event is hosted, at least you have that.

 

PTR

[Red]

This whole thing about the "Niagara Falls Bills" is ridiculous. Most NFL teams don't even play in the cities they are named after. East Rutherford Giants? Santa Clara 49ers? Davie Dolphins? Arlington Cowboys? Hyattsville Redskins? Anaheim Rams? So why are the Bills an exception?

 

As for Downtown Buffalo, while it makes some sense to locate there, all you are doing is dropping a billion dollars down a hole. Just look at all the development HSBC brought to the foot of main Street...none. How about all the thriving businesses in Orchard Park surrounding RWS...zippo, unless you count people parking cars on their lawns. You want to build a stadium close to stuff, like the NF tourism district, and that does include the Canadian side. And it HAS TO BE A DOME! The Bills haven't been a cold-weather team since Jim Kelly and while you may want to freeze your butt off I can assure you few people do...and many free agents avoid Buffalo because of the weather.

 

Niagara Falls is already identified with Buffalo. Has there ever been a TV broadcast of a Buffalo sporting event that didn't include a shot of the Falls?

 

PTR

 

there are some differences between hockey and the NFL. For starters, not too many people tailgate before a hockey game in a parking lot, the way that football fans do. I also don't believe most hockey towns allow tailgating. Alot of times, due to the sheer volume of traffic leaving the stadium after a game, alot of people hang out waiting for things to lighten up. How much better would it be to have restaurants, pubs, retail space all within walking distance after a game?

 

Hockey games are also played, for the most part, on weeknights. Most people have to work the next day. Once the game is over, everyone is going home, not staying in Buffalo looking for something to eat. The NFL experience is a much more involved time than attending an NHL game. HSBC has not thrived because the NHL is a different thing altogether.

 

Furthermore, why consolidate everything WNY has to offer in 1 city? Tourists come every year for the Falls. I say, tell Albany to take a hike, and allow the casinos to build like crazy in the Falls. Turn it into Las Vegas East. Then when people want to spend some of that money on entertainment, they can get on a short high speed train ride to Buffalo along the River (not built yet- but could be w/casino cash). Sabres, Bills, theatre district, restaurant, Niagara wine and history tours, and gambling packages can be created.

 

Keep the money in WNY. The REGION has to work together to flourish. Putting everything in Niagara Falls is a 1 trick pony.

[Red_Tory]

It really is pretty simple. There are one of two ways for this to unfold.

 

Find a way to accomodate the Toronto area market (4th or 5th largest in all of North America) in a reasonable manner that allows the Bills franchise to generate the revenue they need in order to compete. This shouldn't involve renaming the team, or moving their home field across the border - but the organization and their WNY fan base do need to appreciate that some effective outreach to the Toronto area fans does need to occur. it's not like there are different sort of degrees of Bills fans, with some bona fide and others interlopers. Growing up as a Bills fan in London, Ont., I feel it's just as much my team as someone who grew up in Buffalo, NY cheering on the team.

 

In the absence of this, the alternative is that Buffalo will in the fullness of time, lose the franchise.

 

Lose the franchise altogether to California's Gold Coast, or work with Canadian fans (most of whom love the team every bit as much as WNY fans).

 

It isn't rocket science.

 

Chris

[BillnutinHouston]

It really is pretty simple. There are one of two ways for this to unfold.

 

Find a way to accomodate the Toronto area market (4th or 5th largest in all of North America) in a reasonable manner that allows the Bills franchise to generate the revenue they need in order to compete. This shouldn't involve renaming the team, or moving their home field across the border - but the organization and their WNY fan base do need to appreciate that some effective outreach to the Toronto area fans does need to occur. it's not like there are different sort of degrees of Bills fans, with some bona fide and others interlopers. Growing up as a Bills fan in London, Ont., I feel it's just as much my team as someone who grew up in Buffalo, NY cheering on the team.

 

In the absence of this, the alternative is that Buffalo will in the fullness of time, lose the franchise.

 

Lose the franchise altogether to California's Gold Coast, or work with Canadian fans (most of whom love the team every bit as much as WNY fans).

 

It isn't rocket science.

 

Chris

 

Conceptually, you are absolutely, totally, 100% correct. Any other way of thinking is typical old-style Buffalo - isolated, insular, backward thinking.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Chris makes an excellent point, and I would agree.

 

At the same time, the discussion about the Bills moving to NF always leads to a couple of repeated themes that drive me up the wall because they always lead to dead ends.

 

1. The whole name thing. How many NFL teams with cities in their names actually play in stadia within their city limits? Many, but by no means not all. The Bills have not played "in Buffalo" since 1973. Some members of the Erie County Legislature actually proposed changing the name to "Erie County Bills" when Rich opened, to reflect the county's financial contribution. Such a proposal was treated with all the respect it deserved... So there is no need whatsoever to discuss changing their name if the stadium moves from one town outside of Buffalo to another, especially in an era where economic decline has encouraged greater regional thinking. (If they moved into Toronto, that is another issue....)

 

2. The economic problem. As a native of Niagara Falls, NY, who grew up in a time when local identities were so well-established (and in which NFNY was not the hollowed out post-industrial shell that it has become) that Rich Stadium seemed quite far away, I find the thought of the Bills playing within walking distance of my mother's house to be a real treat. But the same economic factors that threaten the Bills' continued presence in WNY in general exist in spades in NF. The county is smaller and poorer, the state does not have the money, and there is no financial angel of a huge corporation to pony up the necessary dough. Casinos are a losing bet for local economic recovery as they divide and re-divide a shrinking pie. And besides, the NFL is not the WNBA; they are not going to allow gambling organizations to own franchises or stadia any time soon.

 

My point is not to be overly gloomy, but I really do not see it. Promo offers a good example of Patriot Place as an ideal stadium complex, but Kraft was able to get that money together from private businesses, and built in a largely undeveloped suburban/rural location. Rather more like Orchard Park, actually. I would love to see more interest in urban development, but that would require both huge sums and a kind of social vision that is all too rare these days.

 

It really is pretty simple. There are one of two ways for this to unfold.

 

Find a way to accomodate the Toronto area market (4th or 5th largest in all of North America) in a reasonable manner that allows the Bills franchise to generate the revenue they need in order to compete. This shouldn't involve renaming the team, or moving their home field across the border - but the organization and their WNY fan base do need to appreciate that some effective outreach to the Toronto area fans does need to occur. it's not like there are different sort of degrees of Bills fans, with some bona fide and others interlopers. Growing up as a Bills fan in London, Ont., I feel it's just as much my team as someone who grew up in Buffalo, NY cheering on the team.

 

In the absence of this, the alternative is that Buffalo will in the fullness of time, lose the franchise.

 

Lose the franchise altogether to California's Gold Coast, or work with Canadian fans (most of whom love the team every bit as much as WNY fans).

 

It isn't rocket science.

 

Chris

[Joaquin1119]

Niagara Bills? sounds very ugly.. as long they keep it as buffalo bills