Buddy stated that he wanted a scatback...

[DanInUticaTampa]

2. well, duh, yes it does mean it was the best decision - why? because they made it. and it will take a year or two to see if it was the correct long-term decision. but at that time is was the best decision - period.

 

No it doesn't. What is wrong with you? Just because that was the decision that was made it doesn't make it the best. It might be the best in the eyes of the front office, but that doesn't make it the best.

 

So the Raider pick Jamarcus Russell 1st overall.... so since they made that decision that was the best one they could have made? Give me a break. Just because you make a decision doesn't mean it is the best one. People make bad decisions all the time.

 

There is nothing wrong with speculating that there could have been a better stratagy to this and skill get a scatback player by trading down. I mean, what would you say if Mccluster or someone in this draft turns out better than spillar? It would still be the "best decision" because that is what they decided? come on man...... You can't say defenitive whether this is the best desicion or not for years. Questioning and speculating right now either way is normal. But to say "it was the best" or "the worst" is just a terrible since you don't know the results of the pick.

[Leonidas]

Am I allowed to post yet?

 

Honestly, I think it's because Jahvid Best is one hard hit away from getting Steve Young'ed. With all the concerns over concussions over the last year, and the off-the-field work of former players bringing post-concussion syndrome to light, Best represents a very real possibility of being not long for the game. It's not like he had one, remember, he's had a few, and they're being taken more seriously these days then even just a couple of years ago.

 

When compared to McCluster, I would take a different approach. I never watched McCluster in college, but at Roscoe Parrish-size I can't imagine him running between the tackles. Not in the pros. If they really wanted another Chris Johnson, they needed someone to do that, and I think McCluster fits more of a Darren Sproles mold. Ask SD how that worked last year.

 

I'm not sure why people are jumping on you. It's a cogent, coherent, well thought out question. Not even a criticism. It'll be interesting to see how Best does in Detroit and McCluster does in KC. I would think Best would certainly be more of a workhorse than McCluster but I guess that's why they play the games.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Am I allowed to post yet?

HAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

Wow, Leonidas. When the whole Tim Graham thing was going on, I said some nice things about you and some not-so-nice things about you.

 

I said that you were definitely not lacking in brains. And I said I always thought your posts were interesting. But I also said I thought you should apologize. And that you were flawed (we all are).

 

Anyways, I'm glad you're back in the saddle. The place wasn't the same without you.

[thewildrabbit]

Am I allowed to post yet?

 

Honestly, I think it's because Jahvid Best is one hard hit away from getting Steve Young'ed. With all the concerns over concussions over the last year, and the off-the-field work of former players bringing post-concussion syndrome to light, Best represents a very real possibility of being not long for the game. It's not like he had one, remember, he's had a few, and they're being taken more seriously these days then even just a couple of years ago.

 

When compared to McCluster, I would take a different approach. I never watched McCluster in college, but at Roscoe Parrish-size I can't imagine him running between the tackles. Not in the pros. If they really wanted another Chris Johnson, they needed someone to do that, and I think McCluster fits more of a Darren Sproles mold. Ask SD how that worked last year.

 

I'm not sure why people are jumping on you. It's a cogent, coherent, well thought out question. Not even a criticism. It'll be interesting to see how Best does in Detroit and McCluster does in KC. I would think Best would certainly be more of a workhorse than McCluster but I guess that's why they play the games.

I considered Sproles to be a MJD clone, mini bowling ball type.

 

Chan Gailey got his "waterbug" he was talking about pre-draft and apparently thinks that type of player can help the Bills more then others. He reminds me of a Reggie Bush type with more speed, a playmaker.

 

I only hope that with the current O line players the "waterbug" doesn't get smushed / swatted trying to get outta the backfield.

[Magox]

Specifically, Jahvid Best (5'9" 195 lbs) is a player VERY close to Spiller (5'11" 195 lbs) in terms of talent, style, and impact.

I guess it all depends if Nix & Co. feel the same way you do regarding their talent level.

[Pilsner]

I know it seems that I'm casting aspersions on the CJ Spiller pick seeing as I've made two posts about him in one day. In truth, I had to wait till well after the draft to really incubate some thoughts. I consider myself neither an optimist nor a pessimist when analyzing the Bills.

 

Besides the 15-18 touches per game issue, here's the other issue regarding the drafting of CJ Spiller at #9 (and surprisingly to me, no one here or in the media has brought up this issue, which I think is very real).

 

There were at least two other "scatbacks" that the Bills could have taken later in the draft…although one might have required a trade down in the first round.

 

Specifically, Jahvid Best (5'9" 195 lbs) is a player VERY close to Spiller (5'11" 195 lbs) in terms of talent, style, and impact. He ended up going to Detroit with the 30th pick overall after the Lions traded up four spots to select him. Another highly regarded scatback in this draft was Dexter McCluster (5'9" 172 lbs) who went 36th overall to the Chiefs.

 

In actuality, one can make the argument that Best is a better player than Spiller.

 

For starters, several player rankings had Best ranked higher than Spiller.

 

Best also had the fastest 40-time of all running backs at the NFL Combine.

 

Playing 3 years for Cal in the Pac Ten, Best totaled 3635 yards, averaging 7.3 yards per rush, 8.6 yards per reception, and 25.6 yards per kick return.

 

Playing 4 years for Clemson in the ACC, Spiller totaled 7588 yards, averaging 5.9 yards per rush, 11.5 yards per reception, and 27.7 yards per kick return.

 

I'm not saying that Best is better than Spiller. Spiller was certainly more of a workhorse for Clemson (but does that not also mean that he has higher mileage?) and had very few injuries while Best was nagged by injuries during his college career. I'm merely pointing out that the player who many thought was the most explosive player in college football, Jahvid Best, is nearly as good as Spiller and went 21 picks later. I would also argue that if a player is going to get limited touches, it matters less how much of a load he can carry.

 

As for Dexter McCluster, he played 4 years for Ole Miss in the SEC, totaling 4089 yards, averaging 6.4 yards per rush, 13.1 yards per reception, and 19.7 yards per kick return.

 

Again, Spiller might be the best of this group.

 

But in all the oversimplified criticism of Spiller being a "luxury pick," everyone who makes that argument points to the usual crap about building through the trenches, already being strong at running back, passing up needs at OT and QB, etc.

 

But one of the main things that makes CJ Spiller a luxury pick, if indeed he is one, is that there were similar players that the Bills could have possibly traded down to get later…picking up extra picks along the way.

 

As a corollary to that point, the ONLY criticism I have of the Bills draft is Buddy Nix's quick, decisive, selection of CJ Spiller. He was admittedly dismissive of the idea of trading down but he may have been too hasty.The Bills made their pick very quickly (I can't recall exactly how quickly). Who's to say that a team might not have come calling with a trade offer if Nix had simply waited to use his complete allotted ten minutes. Who knows how many picks the Bills could have stockpiled had they simply listened to offers. It's within the realm of possibility that they could have come out of the draft with more players who they liked, AND gotten the coveted scatback.

 

 

Good thoughtful balanced post. It was nice to look at and compare the stats between Spiller, Best and McCluster. Personally i'm glad we didn't pick up Best due to his concussion issue. I don't know much about McCluster but he might actually be lighter than Roscoe. We have a fly-weight already so i'de pass on McCluster.

 

My opinion here doesn't really matter though. What matters in this thread are the reasons the Bills picked Spiller and why they didn't pick Best or McCluster. We have their stats that you provided, but what we don't know is how the interviews went with Best and McCluster and what their personalities are like. What is their work ethic like? Are they leaders in the locker room? Do they have the drive to motivate themselves and to motivate others? What kind of role model will they provide to the next crop of draftees in future drafts? Their stats show they have been able to consistently produce on the college level. But what else can they provide that is essential to building a solid cohesive team? Only the Bills management knows their perception on this.

 

Also, this may not mean much, but Marshawn was the previous starter at Cal before Best. Maybe it's unfair to Best, but perhaps Marshawn's awesome attitude tainted Best's draft value. Best got drafted in the first round, so maybe not.

 

Good post tho San Jose. Gives us something to debate in a civil thoughtful way.

 

Go Bills!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Good thoughtful balanced post. It was nice to look at and compare the stats between Spiller, Best and McCluster. Personally i'm glad we didn't pick up Best due to his concussion issue. I don't know much about McCluster but he might actually be lighter than Roscoe. We have a fly-weight already so i'de pass on McCluster.

 

My opinion here doesn't really matter though. What matters in this thread are the reasons the Bills picked Spiller and why they didn't pick Best or McCluster. We have their stats that you provided, but what we don't know is how the interviews went with Best and McCluster and what their personalities are like. What is their work ethic like? Are they leaders in the locker room? Do they have the drive to motivate themselves and to motivate others? What kind of role model will they provide to the next crop of draftees in future drafts? Their stats show they have been able to consistently produce on the college level. But what else can they provide that is essential to building a solid cohesive team? Only the Bills management knows their perception on this.

 

Also, this may not mean much, but Marshawn was the previous starter at Cal before Best. Maybe it's unfair to Best, but perhaps Marshawn's awesome attitude tainted Best's draft value. Best got drafted in the first round, so maybe not.

 

Good post tho San Jose. Gives us something to debate in a civil thoughtful way.

 

Go Bills!!

Thanks Wing. I love Spiller.

 

It's somewhat common knowledge that Spiller wore #28 in honor of one of his heroes, the great Warrick Dunn. I agree that the Bills braintrust probably loved the kid, as any NFL team would. And this was a common thread throughout the Bills draft. All character guys.

 

Like you and Leonidas, I haven't even seen McCluster play (nor had I seen Spiller). But to play in the SEC on one of the weakest teams and to average 6.4 yards per carry and 13.1 yards per reception is pretty impressive. I mean we're talking major college football.

 

It'll be another interesting year for running backs. Jim Schwartz, the Detroit Head Coach made some unfortunate gushing remarks about Best…that he probably wishes he could take back.

 

And AJ Smith in San Diego traded two high picks to move up 16 spots to draft Ryan Mathews just 4 picks after the Bills took Spiller.

[Leonidas]

HAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

Wow, Leonidas. When the whole Tim Graham thing was going on, I said some nice things about you and some not-so-nice things about you.

 

I said that you were definitely not lacking in brains. And I said I always thought your posts were interesting. But I also said I thought you should apologize. And that you were flawed (we all are).

 

Anyways, I'm glad you're back in the saddle. The place wasn't the same without you.

 

Yes, but everything you said was accurate, for better or worse. You even called me 'mercurial,' so after looking up the word myself, I asked my friends if they knew what it meant. Their responses varied:

 

- It means you drive a Mercury, like [our friend]'s old mini-van

- adjective: Likely to cause heavy-metal poisoning...

- mer·cu·ri·al

/mərˈkyʊəriəl/ Show Spelled[mer-kyoor-ee-uhl]

–adjective

1. changeable; volatile; fickle; flighty; erratic: a mercurial nature.... See More

2. animated; lively; sprightly; quick-witted.

3. pertaining to, containing, or caused by the metal mercury.

4. (initial capital letter) of or pertaining to the god Mercury.

5. (initial capital letter) of or pertaining to the planet Mercury.

I'm going to go with #4... being a deity sounds fun!

 

Either way, I'm glad I could help.

[IAmBuddyNix]

I don't know about all this stuff about Best having " less milage" or " more in the tank"...I mean cmon, the last time anybody saw Jahvid Best play a football game he was being taken off the field on a gurney. They are both in their early 20's, no need to worry about wear and tear right now.

[Leonidas]

I considered Sproles to be a MJD clone, mini bowling ball type.

 

Chan Gailey got his "waterbug" he was talking about pre-draft and apparently thinks that type of player can help the Bills more then others. He reminds me of a Reggie Bush type with more speed, a playmaker.

 

I only hope that with the current O line players the "waterbug" doesn't get smushed / swatted trying to get outta the backfield.

 

At just about the same height, MJD outweighs Sproles by 25+ lbs., and their running styles are completely different. And Reggie Bush ran a 4.33 at his pro day while Spiller ran a 4.37 at the Combine, so I'm not sure how Spiller has more speed. Solid post, otherwise.

[Pilsner]

Thanks Wing. I love Spiller.

 

It's somewhat common knowledge that Spiller wore #28 in honor of one of his heroes, the great Warrick Dunn. I agree that the Bills braintrust probably loved the kid, as any NFL team would. And this was a common thread throughout the Bills draft. All character guys.

 

Like you and Leonidas, I haven't even seen McCluster play (nor had I seen Spiller). But to play in the SEC on one of the weakest teams and to average 6.4 yards per carry and 13.1 yards per reception is pretty impressive. I mean we're talking major college football.

 

It'll be another interesting year for running backs. Jim Schwartz, the Detroit Head Coach made some unfortunate gushing remarks about Best…that he probably wishes he could take back.

 

And AJ Smith in San Diego traded two high picks to move up 16 spots to draft Ryan Mathews just 4 picks after the Bills took Spiller.

 

 

I'm really excited about Spiller too. In a year or two after our O-line improves thru experience and players added i'm really curious what kind of damage Spiller can produce. Hopefully mind-numbing scary type stuff. Wow it's very impressive he got a 6.4 yards per carry average in the SEC against such good competition. That opened my eyes for sure.

 

I really thought Best would get drafted in the 2nd. He might show flashes in some games but as another poster said, he's only "another concussion" away from being a bad draft pick. I could be wrong, but i'de be very concerned about that.

 

I didn't know anything about Ryan Mathews, and Fresno State is only 2 hours drive away. The one year i decide to not watch a Fresno State game and I don't notice they have an NFL caliber running back. So obviously that pick came out of nowhere in my mind. Hopefully for SD he pans out cause he idolizes LT. So i'm sure he's happy going there.

[sllib olaffub]

I see the point about Best, and I thought, before the draft, that they would've looked at him in round 2 and went LT in round 1, or Clausen when he was still there. But, now that it is over, I think what separates Spiller is that he is more solid physically, he's shown he's durable, dedicated, can be a three down running back, and that character - I think the Bills F.O. finally believes that players character, their willingness to be team players, to want to win above everything else, is perhaps more important than the public realizes. I think of the New England teams that were dominant half a decade ago - they were a group of apparently interchangeable players that as a team always played hard. From what I've seen and read, it looks like that is the kind of team being assembled here - players that want to dedicate their lives to winning games, to team goals. I think we're going to be proud of these Bills in the years approaching, and I think they will prove a lot of people wrong with how good they perform as a group. And, really, you can't go wrong with Spiller - it was a no brainer. Even if they could maybe have traded and gotten an extra pick, at least they came away with certainty that they added a playmaker - a one of a kind player.

[jkx2]

I know it seems that I'm casting aspersions on the CJ Spiller pick seeing as I've made two posts about him in one day. In truth, I had to wait till well after the draft to really incubate some thoughts. I consider myself neither an optimist nor a pessimist when analyzing the Bills.

 

Besides the 15-18 touches per game issue, here's the other issue regarding the drafting of CJ Spiller at #9 (and surprisingly to me, no one here or in the media has brought up this issue, which I think is very real).

 

There were at least two other "scatbacks" that the Bills could have taken later in the draft…although one might have required a trade down in the first round.

 

Specifically, Jahvid Best (5'9" 195 lbs) is a player VERY close to Spiller (5'11" 195 lbs) in terms of talent, style, and impact. He ended up going to Detroit with the 30th pick overall after the Lions traded up four spots to select him. Another highly regarded scatback in this draft was Dexter McCluster (5'9" 172 lbs) who went 36th overall to the Chiefs.

 

In actuality, one can make the argument that Best is a better player than Spiller.

 

For starters, several player rankings had Best ranked higher than Spiller.

 

Best also had the fastest 40-time of all running backs at the NFL Combine.

 

Playing 3 years for Cal in the Pac Ten, Best totaled 3635 yards, averaging 7.3 yards per rush, 8.6 yards per reception, and 25.6 yards per kick return.

 

Playing 4 years for Clemson in the ACC, Spiller totaled 7588 yards, averaging 5.9 yards per rush, 11.5 yards per reception, and 27.7 yards per kick return.

 

I'm not saying that Best is better than Spiller. Spiller was certainly more of a workhorse for Clemson (but does that not also mean that he has higher mileage?) and had very few injuries while Best was nagged by injuries during his college career. I'm merely pointing out that the player who many thought was the most explosive player in college football, Jahvid Best, is nearly as good as Spiller and went 21 picks later. I would also argue that if a player is going to get limited touches, it matters less how much of a load he can carry.

 

As for Dexter McCluster, he played 4 years for Ole Miss in the SEC, totaling 4089 yards, averaging 6.4 yards per rush, 13.1 yards per reception, and 19.7 yards per kick return.

 

Again, Spiller might be the best of this group.

 

But in all the oversimplified criticism of Spiller being a "luxury pick," everyone who makes that argument points to the usual crap about building through the trenches, already being strong at running back, passing up needs at OT and QB, etc.

 

But one of the main things that makes CJ Spiller a luxury pick, if indeed he is one, is that there were similar players that the Bills could have possibly traded down to get later…picking up extra picks along the way.

 

As a corollary to that point, the ONLY criticism I have of the Bills draft is Buddy Nix's quick, decisive, selection of CJ Spiller. He was admittedly dismissive of the idea of trading down but he may have been too hasty.The Bills made their pick very quickly (I can't recall exactly how quickly). Who's to say that a team might not have come calling with a trade offer if Nix had simply waited to use his complete allotted ten minutes. Who knows how many picks the Bills could have stockpiled had they simply listened to offers. It's within the realm of possibility that they could have come out of the draft with more players who they liked, AND gotten the coveted scatback.

Have you seen Jahvid Best concussion video and the problems he still has from the injury, it's all you need to see why Spiller was a better pick.

[Booster4324]

At just about the same height, MJD outweighs Sproles by 25+ lbs., and their running styles are completely different. And Reggie Bush ran a 4.33 at his pro day while Spiller ran a 4.37 at the Combine, so I'm not sure how Spiller has more speed. Solid post, otherwise.

 

See, that is a good post. A bit of a slam, but done with facts. I have enough respect for your acumen to not even check the figures. The question, can you maintain that posting style when the fur starts flying?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Have you seen Jahvid Best concussion video and the problems he still has from the injury, it's all you need to see why Spiller was a better pick.

I didn't click on the link because I've seen the hit many times. I live in the Bay Area so there's no shortage of coverage of Cal Football.

 

Yes it was a hellacious collision with the ground by a very courageous football player who totally sold out to try to score a touchdown.

 

But I don't think that this one play will derail Best's career.

[Pilsner]

I see the point about Best, and I thought, before the draft, that they would've looked at him in round 2 and went LT in round 1, or Clausen when he was still there. But, now that it is over, I think what separates Spiller is that he is more solid physically, he's shown he's durable, dedicated, can be a three down running back, and that character - I think the Bills F.O. finally believes that players character, their willingness to be team players, to want to win above everything else, is perhaps more important than the public realizes. I think of the New England teams that were dominant half a decade ago - they were a group of apparently interchangeable players that as a team always played hard. From what I've seen and read, it looks like that is the kind of team being assembled here - players that want to dedicate their lives to winning games, to team goals. I think we're going to be proud of these Bills in the years approaching, and I think they will prove a lot of people wrong with how good they perform as a group. And, really, you can't go wrong with Spiller - it was a no brainer. Even if they could maybe have traded and gotten an extra pick, at least they came away with certainty that they added a playmaker - a one of a kind player.

 

 

There's a lot more to a good football player than just physical ability. At least there should be. So many people are into height, weight, speed, number of tackles made, yards, catches made ect... That is all fine and dandy. I want players on our team that are good at accumulating all that too. Who doesn't? But we also need people who are team players, who collectively know their roles and are "interchangeable" in some ways as you pointed out, as the need arises.

 

We can gather all the talent in the world as other teams have in the past (Snyder's spending spree's on the Redskins) but if we don't gather the right personality types that know how to work together then it is for naught. We Need men of character, drive, perseverance, team players who will not make a big fuss over playing time. We need players who want to be on the field no matter what, but who also know when to not throw a hissy fit if they don't get their time on the field.

 

Team players with the will to succeed and who will fight for their fellow players. And who give a frickin F*@k for the fans. I'm so so glad we drafted players with character this year. I don't think we short changed ourselves in physical talent either. Only time will tell. This is the kind of real long term foundation that a successful team is built upon. I hope we continue to draft in this mold. Talent and Character.

 

In the end, true character never loses.

 

Go Bills!!

[ChasBB]

You make a good point in the fact that even though Nix knew who he wanted he could have used more of his alotted time , that being said with the amount of injuries the Bills had last year why would they have even considered a back a bit smaller with a much bigger injury history ? Wouldn't you go for the guy that is more durable just what Nix did . I love the pick i think Spiller is not only going to bring fans to the stadium the way T.O. did but just the thought of the excitement of the possibilities of what he does on the field on game day ---- i can't wait !!!! GO BILLS !!!!!

Also, I don't consider 5'9" that close to 5'11". Their weights are the same, but that is not an insignificant height difference. Now, it may not make a huge difference, but it seems to me that if you're going to utilize your back a lot as a receiver, it's better to have a little bigger of a target and a little more reach. I don't know. I'm no expert, but I like the Spiller pick.

[mob16151]

Didn't McCluster run like a 4.6 40 leading up to the draft? Or maybe i was like 4.59. Anyways McCluters shifty but he's small and not that fast. And as for Best, head injuries scare me.

[eball]

Not a bad post -- certainly provides some food for thought. My own opinion is that Spiller is clearly the best of the three -- he's the biggest, most durable, and has the most upside. Plus, we're talking about an INTELLIGENT guy as well -- graduated early.

 

I believe this is the guy they really wanted at #9 if one of the two "stud" LTs was not available. I'm not buying into the Ralph Wilson conspiracy theory to sell tickets. Spiller WAS a "need" pick -- the Bills need to score points, and CJ did that better than anyone at the RB position.

[ChasBB]

Not a bad post -- certainly provides some food for thought. My own opinion is that Spiller is clearly the best of the three -- he's the biggest, most durable, and has the most upside. Plus, we're talking about an INTELLIGENT guy as well -- graduated early.

 

I believe this is the guy they really wanted at #9 if one of the two "stud" LTs was not available. I'm not buying into the Ralph Wilson conspiracy theory to sell tickets. Spiller WAS a "need" pick -- the Bills need to score points, and CJ did that better than anyone at the RB position.

Agree. Best player available at his position *and* a position of need for Buffalo -- especially given the ML situation.