In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Pat Williams testifies that a Bills trainer told him Starcaps was legal since PW left the Bills after the 2004 season and Jones joined the Bears in 2005, who was it? How many "trainers" were on the team in those days? Williams said he started using StarCaps when he played for the Buffalo Bills from 1997-2004 and even consulted with a Bills trainer about the supplement. "He checked it out and said everything was legal," Williams testified. I have nothing but respect for Rusty Jones, I'm asking a legitimate question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Pat Williams testifies that a Bills trainer told him Starcaps was legal since PW left the Bills after the 2004 season and Jones joined the Bears in 2005, who was it? How many "trainers" were on the team in those days? I have nothing but respect for Rusty Jones, I'm asking a legitimate question... What are we talkin' about here... THE CREAM and THE CLEAR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 It would be shocking to think that an athlete would use his trainer as a scapegoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 The NFL had a hotline that players/coaches/trainers could call. Apparently the hotline told NUMEROUS personnel that there was nothing in Starcaps that was against the drug policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthICE Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 The NFL had a hotline that players/coaches/trainers could call. Apparently the hotline told NUMEROUS personnel that there was nothing in Starcaps that was against the drug policy. Exactly which is why the NFL will lose. If they ok a company and say its ok for you or your team to purchase from them, you can not ban them when a product comes up bad from the company you ok'ed. The NFL says each player has a responsibility to check out company's and supplements and what they put in their bodies. Ok well the Williams boys DID do that....by checking with the NFL and using a company THEY SAID WAS OK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Pat Williams testifies that a Bills trainer told him Starcaps was legal since PW left the Bills after the 2004 season and Jones joined the Bears in 2005, who was it? How many "trainers" were on the team in those days? I have nothing but respect for Rusty Jones, I'm asking a legitimate question... It might be that back when he first asked they were "legit." Standards change all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Based on the wording, it wasn't Jones. He was S&C COACH. Trainers are Bud Carpenter et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 I think the argument is that at one point the ingredient in Starcaps that is currently illegal was legal at one time. The NFL changed their drug policy on StarCaps and the players are saying the NFL failed to notify them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightClub Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 In related news today Bill Belicheat told reporters that he had approval to tape games from former Bills head coach Marv Levy. C'mon guys, cheating is cheating. Once you're caught, it's on your name FOREVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Exactly which is why the NFL will lose. If they ok a company and say its ok for you or your team to purchase from them, you can not ban them when a product comes up bad from the company you ok'ed. The NFL says each player has a responsibility to check out company's and supplements and what they put in their bodies. Ok well the Williams boys DID do that....by checking with the NFL and using a company THEY SAID WAS OK! I don't understand the NFL's intransigence on this issue. Sometimes the issue is more than the Black/White point of the law. The league has to use some common sense and understand that if the players received information from the authorities who should know (training staff) then how could they be faulted. Fighting to the death over such an understandable misunderstanding doesn't make sense to me. The league needs to relent and stop this interminable legal battle. What a waste of time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Rusty Jones can walk on water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthICE Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 In related news today Bill Belicheat told reporters that he had approval to tape games from former Bills head coach Marv Levy. C'mon guys, cheating is cheating. Once you're caught, it's on your name FOREVER. How is it cheating? the NFL approved it, now they want to ban them for it. !@#$ em. I sue the **** out of the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA6seat Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 It might be that back when he first asked they were "legit." Standards change all the time. As an athlete subject to random drug testing I can attest to the fact that standards change from year to year. Pseudoephedrine (the active ingredient in the cold medicine Sudafed) used to be on the USADA and WADA banned substance list. Then it was taken off for a few years. Now its back on the prohibited list but only in competition I believe. The point is that the banned substance list for Olympic sports is updated every year based on evidence from years prior. Just because a drug is ok one year doesn't mean that it is ok the next. I'm not sure how often the NFL updates their list but players should be aware at all times what the regulations are when they consume things. The common advice is that if you even use vitamins it is at your own risk because you are ultimately responsible. If you are at all worried about a substances legality you should not use it plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Players have to be careful taking even so called natural legal supplements- it is not uncommon in the bodybuilding supplement business to dope the first batchs of supplement with oral steroids or other PEDs- people try the stuff get results and you get great reviews and sales - later you stop putting PEDs in but it doesn't matter because your product has a rep and you'll get years of sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 How is it cheating? the NFL approved it, now they want to ban them for it. !@#$ em. I sue the **** out of the NFL You're not one to let fact get in the way of your conclusions, but consider this: Starcaps is a diuretic and a PED masking substance. All players and their agents were warned against using this product by the NFLPA BEFORE the Williams boys were busted. Regardless, Williams was contractually prohibited (by the Vikings) from using any diuretics, banned or not, to meet his weight requirements. So he willfully did use a diuretic, and instead of using a League legal one chose one that masks steroid use. The only logical conclusion is that he used PEDs. I don't see how the League loses this one. http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/nf...sts-mar-10-2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 How is it cheating? the NFL approved it, now they want to ban them for it. !@#$ em. I sue the **** out of the NFL Correct. It was not "cheating." StarCaps was OK with the NFL. This happened years ago. Its not even a PED, it an OTC weight loss supplement. Incase you have noticed the Williamseses are fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Correct. It was not "cheating."StarCaps was OK with the NFL. This happened years ago. Its not even a PED, it an OTC weight loss supplement. Incase you have noticed the Williamseses are fat. Wrong, except the last statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Blood pressure medicine is a PED it keeps you from dying which will enhance your playing ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabres...yawn Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Pat Williams testifies that a Bills trainer told him Starcaps was legal since PW left the Bills after the 2004 season and Jones joined the Bears in 2005, who was it? How many "trainers" were on the team in those days? I have nothing but respect for Rusty Jones, I'm asking a legitimate question... Maybe the trainer thought they WERE legal. Evidently, other players have used it without suspension( I heard 6 players used it w/o suspension (FAN 590). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthICE Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 You're not one to let fact get in the way of your conclusions, but consider this: Starcaps is a diuretic and a PED masking substance. All players and their agents were warned against using this product by the NFLPA BEFORE the Williams boys were busted. Regardless, Williams was contractually prohibited (by the Vikings) from using any diuretics, banned or not, to meet his weight requirements. So he willfully did use a diuretic, and instead of using a League legal one chose one that masks steroid use. The only logical conclusion is that he used PEDs. I don't see how the League loses this one. http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/nf...sts-mar-10-2010 They will lose it because the League approved it and now wants to bust them for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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