metzelaars_lives Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 and then you line up Levitre, Hangartner, Wood and Butler/Meredith/Scott/Bell at RT and they manage to stay healthy, do the Bills even have a bad O line? I'm so sick of hearing about our line issues in the media (John Clayton lost a lot of credibility in my eyes last week) as if we have to revamp our entire line and start from scratch. Did they perform well this year? Of course not, but Fred Jackson averaged over 4 yards a carry and I hate to burst your bubble folks, but he is not Ladanian Tomlinson circa 2005. Not to mention the pass protection was bad, but I have seen worse (see: Rob Johnson era). Wood and Levitre in their second year, assuming Wood is back to 100%, should only improve. Bottom line, we have way bigger issues than OL- again, assuming we can figure out what's going on at LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 and then you line up Levitre, Hangartner, Wood and Butler/Meredith/Scott/Bell at RT and they manage to stay healthy, do the Bills even have a bad O line? I'm so sick of hearing about our line issues in the media (John Clayton lost a lot of credibility in my eyes last week) as if we have to revamp our entire line and start from scratch. Did they perform well this year? Of course not, but Fred Jackson averaged over 4 yards a carry and I hate to burst your bubble folks, but he is not Ladanian Tomlinson circa 2005. Not to mention the pass protection was bad, but I have seen worse (see: Rob Johnson era). Wood and Levitre in their second year, assuming Wood is back to 100%, should only improve. Bottom line, we have way bigger issues than OL- again, assuming we can figure out what's going on at LT. I couldnt agree more...I think last years draft solidified our inside line for years to come, providing that wood does come back 100 percent-and all indications are that he will, and if hangartner plays for another 4 years...I can live with a mediocre RT if we can somehow land a franchise left tackle....and that is a huge IF though you are correct....if we could somehow get McNeil from the chargers, that allows our draft to be BPA for sure....frees us up to take McClain (i pray every night for him to fall to us) or any other DT that is still around....main point, gives us flexibility and options...but we may hav eto use that number 9 pick on a LT, which isnt the worst thing in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthICE Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Bottom line you can have the best line in the world, if you don't have a QB worth a **** it doesn't matter. We go into 2010 with these same losers as our QB corp and it will be ANOTHER losing season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Jersey Bills Fan Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I couldnt agree more...I think last years draft solidified our inside line for years to come, providing that wood does come back 100 percent-and all indications are that he will, and if hangartner plays for another 4 years...I can live with a mediocre RT if we can somehow land a franchise left tackle....and that is a huge IF though you are correct....if we could somehow get McNeil from the chargers, that allows our draft to be BPA for sure....frees us up to take McClain (i pray every night for him to fall to us) or any other DT that is still around....main point, gives us flexibility and options...but we may hav eto use that number 9 pick on a LT, which isnt the worst thing in the world How many linemen does a team normally carry? It seems like keepers would be: Livetre Wood Hangman Bell Butler Meredith Incognito That's 7, if we add an LT that's 8. Sounds like too many...do any of these guys have trade value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 and then you line up Levitre, Hangartner, Wood and Butler/Meredith/Scott/Bell at RT and they manage to stay healthy, do the Bills even have a bad O line? I'm so sick of hearing about our line issues in the media (John Clayton lost a lot of credibility in my eyes last week) as if we have to revamp our entire line and start from scratch. Did they perform well this year? Of course not, but Fred Jackson averaged over 4 yards a carry and I hate to burst your bubble folks, but he is not Ladanian Tomlinson circa 2005. Not to mention the pass protection was bad, but I have seen worse (see: Rob Johnson era). Wood and Levitre in their second year, assuming Wood is back to 100%, should only improve. Bottom line, we have way bigger issues than OL- again, assuming we can figure out what's going on at LT. Hangartner pretty much sucks and Butler is a ? at RT while he is very good at G. Wood playing center = upgrade, Butler at RG = upgrade. IF both those guys can play this season like they have in the past, then we are still 2 OL guys away, not just one. That takes care of our starting lineup, does not help depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 How many linemen does a team normally carry? It seems like keepers would be: Livetre Wood Hangman Bell Butler Meredith Incognito That's 7, if we add an LT that's 8. Sounds like too many...do any of these guys have trade value? SJBF, in the recent past we've gone anywhere from 9 to 11, sometimes depending upon whether one of them is a long snapper. ...so no, I think we have room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsaikotic Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I'd actually like to see Levitre move to RT with the line looking like this: Rookie LT - Incognito - Hangman - Wood - Levitre another scenario might be if Chan wants to use Brohm as the QB and letting Brohm's college center be his pro center: Rookie LT - Incognito - Wood - Levitre - Meredith my main idea is that I'd love to keep the mean attitude guys on the O-line (Wood, Incognito and Levitre)...Levitre played OT in college and Wood played OC...Meredith was a 2nd round draft talent that I think has some upside...keep hangman as depth along with 1 or 2 of Bell, Scott and Ramsey..also keep Butler as OG backup...jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Jersey Bills Fan Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 SJBF, in the recent past we've gone anywhere from 9 to 11, sometimes depending upon whether one of them is a long snapper. ...so no, I think we have room. Thanks man. I didn't realize linmen went that deep on the roster. Even with some shuffling, it looks like we have starters or potential starters from RT to LG. The middle seems solid (Butler/Hangman, Wood, Levitre/Incognito). RT has potential (Mererdith, Bell/Butler). I aggree with the orginal thought that we are not that far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I saw little from Hangartner that made him look like enough of an upgrade over the too-small/weak guys we've had there the past several years. He's better, but still not great. Given the need for a really strong Center to work against the NT's in our division particularly, Wood needs to be the answer at Center if healthy, otherwise we should draft another one. As for Incognito, I'm all for tough and mean o-linemen, but this guy seems to repeatedly cross the line to just stupid and out-of-control. 15-yard personal fouls are not a way to generate offense and score points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I agree with the OP's sentiments. Locating a solid LT (possibly even in free agency) would go a long way toward cementing the OL. I think we will also discover that if we get a competent QB back there, that the OL will also look much improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 SJBF, in the recent past we've gone anywhere from 9 to 11, sometimes depending upon whether one of them is a long snapper. ...so no, I think we have room. The Bills always keep 8, maybe 9 OL on the 53-man roster. Not sure where you're getting 11 from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsaikotic Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I saw little from Hangartner that made him look like enough of an upgrade over the too-small/weak guys we've had there the past several years. He's better, but still not great. Given the need for a really strong Center to work against the NT's in our division particularly, Wood needs to be the answer at Center if healthy, otherwise we should draft another one. As for Incognito, I'm all for tough and mean o-linemen, but this guy seems to repeatedly cross the line to just stupid and out-of-control. 15-yard personal fouls are not a way to generate offense and score points. while I agree that the penalties Incognito received while playing for STL are things I don't want to see in Buffalo, he behaved himself in the games he played here...I'm willing to call all that the past and hope to see wonderful things in the future from him in Buffalo red, white and blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I saw little from Hangartner that made him look like enough of an upgrade over the too-small/weak guys we've had there the past several years. He's better, but still not great. Given the need for a really strong Center to work against the NT's in our division particularly, Wood needs to be the answer at Center if healthy, otherwise we should draft another one. As for Incognito, I'm all for tough and mean o-linemen, but this guy seems to repeatedly cross the line to just stupid and out-of-control. 15-yard personal fouls are not a way to generate offense and score points. then you and I were watching a different center play football this year...Hangman was better than decent at center, especially after Wood went down, he was left on an island a lot more in the middle with some tough nose and d-tackles and he more than held his own....Hang and Levitre were the only bright spots after wood went down bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 and then you line up Levitre, Hangartner, Wood and Butler/Meredith/Scott/Bell at RT and they manage to stay healthy, do the Bills even have a bad O line? I'm so sick of hearing about our line issues in the media (John Clayton lost a lot of credibility in my eyes last week) as if we have to revamp our entire line and start from scratch. Did they perform well this year? Of course not, but Fred Jackson averaged over 4 yards a carry and I hate to burst your bubble folks, but he is not Ladanian Tomlinson circa 2005. Not to mention the pass protection was bad, but I have seen worse (see: Rob Johnson era). Wood and Levitre in their second year, assuming Wood is back to 100%, should only improve. Bottom line, we have way bigger issues than OL- again, assuming we can figure out what's going on at LT. Agree completely. We need one part in this line to be servicable to good IMO There are many different combinations that we could use. I like this one LT- Rookie or FA LG- Levitre C- Wood RG- Incognito RT- Butler/Bell/Meredith/Scott HandyMan to back up the Guards and C and you could have a pretty decent line Or maybe they flirt with Levitre at LT, and throw Handy back at C and move Wood and Incognito around a little. At least it all did on my Madden team. If they do something along these lines it would servicable and be able to attend to our biggest need on this team IMO. LB, DE, DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsaikotic Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 then you and I were watching a different center play football this year...Hangman was better than decent at center, especially after Wood went down, he was left on an island a lot more in the middle with some tough nose and d-tackles and he more than held his own....Hang and Levitre were the only bright spots after wood went down bro man I hate it when that happens...not that it does.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Bottom line you can have the best line in the world, if you don't have a QB worth a **** it doesn't matter. We go into 2010 with these same losers as our QB corp and it will be ANOTHER losing season. Actually the saying is, you can have the best QB in the world but if you have a crappy line in front of him it won't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Bottom line you can have the best line in the world, if you don't have a QB worth a **** it doesn't matter. We go into 2010 with these same losers as our QB corp and it will be ANOTHER losing season. The Bills have a lot of needs which won't be addressed in one year. Yes, you are correct that the qb position is the most critical position in football. But franchise qbs aren't easily found. My view is to get the best LT you can in the draft and try to find a second tier qb in the free agent market. Jason Campbell, Sage Rosenfeld, Kobb, Vick and Bulger types of qbs who might be available to compete with the qbs presently on the roster. Last year the Bills had the opportunity to draft Michael Ohrer to fill the void left by the trading of Peters. The Bills front office thought they could fill in the hole with the immobile Langston Walker. That was a very damaging personnel decision which has resonated for this upcoming draft. The OL has been bad for a very long time. There comes a point where you either address that unit or you continue to struggle on offense. Will the Bills be good enough to make the playoffs next year? Absolutely not. The Patriots, Jets and Dolphins are now better than us and will be getting better than us because of their stronger organizations. The Bills desperately need a coherent rebuilding plan instead of continuing with their scattered and incoherent approach they have been taking for almost a generation. Building a team from its lines and then addressing the skill positions might be the best strategy to take. With a quality line the Bills might get lucky and have Brohm or even Edwards play at a level that could make us competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackMamba Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 anyone else think that the sigining of incognito signified that the bills are going to keep levitre at LT, wood at LG and incognito at RG? i dont think they are going to draft a qb or lt....i think they go defensively and get a lb and dt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 anyone else think that the sigining of incognito signified that the bills are going to keep levitre at LT, wood at LG and incognito at RG? i dont think they are going to draft a qb or lt....i think they go defensively and get a lb and dt The Bills were able to sign Incognito to fill in for the injured Woods because he was cut by the Rams. It is my understanding that it is not a given that he will sign a contract with us for next season. The problem with Incognito is that he can't control his emotions on the field. He lacks the discipline required to play without constantly being penalized. As it stands he has the talent but doesn't have the emotional maturity or psychological makeup to maintain his composure in the game. He was a troubled player when he was in college and he also was a troubled player in the pros. He is a big risk factor. You can't count on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throwback Bills Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I don't read every post, but if all is lost at the O-line. Why was Levitre rated top rookie at G? Wood would have been in the running if no broken leg week 11. Maybe two all rookie G's. Plus this is exactly how the HOGS got started. With rookies/moved players at every postion. If we get Anthoney Davis or Bruce Campbell with the 9th pick watchout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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