Firing Jaruon was stupid

[GrudginglyPessimistic]

I think its an addition by subtraction move....that simple.

 

Even with this logic you may be right or you may be wrong. If it turns out that Rich Kotite is one of Ralph's old buddies and that is who are next HC is, I am sorry it is subtraction from the horrible Jauron record. We would go from unacceptably mediocre to unacceptably horrible.

 

Simon is totally right that firing Jauron without a plan is simply stupid.

 

However, he is also probably right that us outsiders really have no clue what the plan is if there is one. Nor do we know what the future holds and we could stumble into the right moves.

 

Firing Jauron without a plan is stupid (well duh). However, indicting the future without having a clue whether there is a plan or seeing whether we stumble into a good outcome is pretty stupid as well.

[KOKBILLS]

Say Fewell wins at least 4 out of the next 7 games. And the inner circle of stooges convince Ralph that it was DJ's fault all along. Next year, the inner circle of stooges, Fewell, and the loser Tampa 2 D-scheme all return. In this case, it would be better to let DJ crash and burn till the end of the year.

 

Fair enough...

 

But this time around I doubt very much Ralph will settle for anything less than a big splash at HC and a complete overhaul of the FO...Even if they Win out...Which we all know is not going to happen...

 

The following is complete speculation...It's just what I think is going on...I think for Ralph, letting go of Jauron was by far the hardest thing for him to do...I think Levy is still in Ralph's ear weekly and had all but begged Ralph to let Jauron stay...I think that's how Jauron survived last Off Season...So, by cutting off the head so-to-speak, Ralph has begun plan "Blow it the hell up" with a bang...I don't think any of these Coaches or FO Personnel stays in their current capacity after this Season...No matter what they do...I think Ralph has been convinced by others (finally) that He better go out and get a big name at HC or he's going to lose this Fan base...And I do believe Ralph still wants to please the Fans of Buffalo...He's going to make up for letting this Fan base down by keeping Jauron too long and listening to Levy too much...He's hell-bent on setting this thing right and making a HUGE splash while doing so...I think Ralph, with Brandon advising, wants Shanahan or Cowher and is willing to do whatever to get one of them...I think Ralph's finally woke up...

 

Like I said just My opinion...And I hope to God I'm right...We'll see soon enough...

[DC Tom]

Do you know what was really utterly predictable about this discussion? No? Well, I'll tell you in a bit.

 

But first I'll address the points you've made. The problem the Lions had wasn't where they were picking in the draft. It was that they had Matt Millen doing the picking. Do you want to see good draft picks? Take a good GM, and give him picks very early in the draft. That doesn't happen very often, because good GMs' teams tend to win more often than they lose. But when it does, watch out! Bill Polian certainly qualifies as a good GM; and he's used the first overall pick to take Peyton Manning. That's a clear case where losing games over the short-term has turned into more wins over the long run. Or perhaps you'd argue that the Colts would have had had just as many wins with some other QB picked 20th or 30th overall at the helm?

 

As for the Patriots: they often have a tendency to trade away current draft picks or players for future draft picks. The Bills witnessed this when we traded away our first round pick for Drew Bledsoe. They also traded away a WR, I think to Seattle, in exchange for a first round pick. Then there was the time they managed to get San Francisco's first round pick, which was early in the draft, I think by having traded away their own first round pick the previous year. They recently traded away a defensive lineman for someone's first round pick. There are probably one or two other trades like that which I'm forgetting. As a result of these kinds of trades, the Patriots have ended up with earlier draft picks than you'd expect based on their record.

 

Below is a list of the players the Patriots have drafted in the top 15, starting with the year 2001:

 

2001: 6th overall: Richard Seymour, DT

2003: 13th overall: Ty Warren, DE

2008: 10th overall: Jerod Mayo, ILB

 

That's three very good football players! Now look at the first round picks the Patriots have had during that span with non-top 15 picks.

 

2002: 21st overall: Daniel Graham, TE

2004: 21st overall: Vince Wilfork, NT

2004: 32nd overall: Ben Watson, TE

2005: 32nd overall: Logan Mankins, G

2006: 21st overall: Laurence Maroney, RB

2007: 24th overall: Brandon Meriweather, DB

 

There are some good football players in that group, but there are also some lesser players who bring down its overall average. At least over the past decade, the Patriots have done better with picks in the top 15 than with picks in the second half of the first round.

 

You seem to think that "winning begets winning." I'd argue that good football players and a good coaching staff beget winning. If you want good football players, you're most likely to find them in the top half of the draft. Which is why the last thing this team needs is a few meaningless wins to close out the year.

 

So you're changing your argument...instead of "high draft picks = good players", which is routinely contradicted by the number of ****ty teams that blow high draft picks, you're arguing that "high draft picks by good teams = good players", ignoring the simple fact that very often LOW draft picks by good teams equates to good players as well (I'd bet the list of players taken in the low first round is just as long as the list of players taken early).

 

I'll tell you what...why don't you total up all the pro-Bowl appearances by top-5 picks of the past 15 years, then total up all the pro-Bowl appearances of the bottom-5 first round picks of the past 15 years, and tell me what you find? I'll run the numbers - since we long ago established that you're COMPLETELY incapable of defining "correlation", much less identifying one - and we'll see if winning really does hurt the franchise.

[DMQ]

Without a plan in place going forward this was an absolutely pointless move at this time. The Bills should have already had multiple interviews scheduled for their permanent coach when they pulled the plug. Maybe they do, I don't know. But if not this move is just stupid and pointless.

If they want to do anything positive in the near future they should have a coach in place by Thanksgiving (and I don't mean Fewell or April or anybody else on staff) and a new GM and a reorganized front office completed before Christmas. If they can't manage that, then this move was nothing but more of Ralph Wilson's mindless bullshlt.

 

Huh??? Other coaches do not interview with a team who have a coach in place. The only way to interview big name coaches is to fire the one you have.

[grelit]

Even with this logic you may be right or you may be wrong. If it turns out that Rich Kotite is one of Ralph's old buddies and that is who are next HC is, I am sorry it is subtraction from the horrible Jauron record. We would go from unacceptably mediocre to unacceptably horrible.

 

Simon is totally right that firing Jauron without a plan is simply stupid.

 

However, he is also probably right that us outsiders really have no clue what the plan is if there is one. Nor do we know what the future holds and we could stumble into the right moves.

 

Firing Jauron without a plan is stupid (well duh). However, indicting the future without having a clue whether there is a plan or seeing whether we stumble into a good outcome is pretty stupid as well.

 

I highly doubt Rich Kotite will be our next head coach....LOL

[Cereal]

Without a plan in place going forward this was an absolutely pointless move at this time. The Bills should have already had multiple interviews scheduled for their permanent coach when they pulled the plug. Maybe they do, I don't know. But if not this move is just stupid and pointless.

If they want to do anything positive in the near future they should have a coach in place by Thanksgiving (and I don't mean Fewell or April or anybody else on staff) and a new GM and a reorganized front office completed before Christmas. If they can't manage that, then this move was nothing but more of Ralph Wilson's mindless bullshlt.

 

I don't feel like going through the whole thread, but the timing may have more to do with keeping the fans at ease, as well as getting Fewell a 7-week interview.

[timba]

Even with this logic you may be right or you may be wrong. If it turns out that Rich Kotite is one of Ralph's old buddies and that is who are next HC is, I am sorry it is subtraction from the horrible Jauron record. We would go from unacceptably mediocre to unacceptably horrible.

 

Simon is totally right that firing Jauron without a plan is simply stupid.

 

However, he is also probably right that us outsiders really have no clue what the plan is if there is one. Nor do we know what the future holds and we could stumble into the right moves.

 

Firing Jauron without a plan is stupid (well duh). However, indicting the future without having a clue whether there is a plan or seeing whether we stumble into a good outcome is pretty stupid as well.

 

Just because we don't know the plan doesn't mean there isn't one.

[please stop the pain]

First, I think ti is pretty far-fetched to believe that RW fired Dick because Bud Adams threw the finger to some fans. Stupid really. Whatever else Ralph may be, I think it is unlikely as a successful businessman that when a peer/business rival makes a rude gesture that you spaz out and start firing people. Thank god Bud didn't flip off the geek that started Microsoft; with this theory, the next logical step would be to quit and start selling Avon.

Wait, that is stupid too. Must be infectious.

 

 

I'm happy about the move. Dick is gone and so far, Perry is already working the team harder. Start now, toughen up, take your balls back out of your purses and hit someone. Lets see who wants to play football next year.

[GG]

Say Fewell wins at least 4 out of the next 7 games. And the inner circle of stooges convince Ralph that it was DJ's fault all along. Next year, the inner circle of stooges, Fewell, and the loser Tampa 2 D-scheme all return. In this case, it would be better to let DJ crash and burn till the end of the year.

 

Looking at the roster composition and the remaining schedule, if Fewell wins 4 of 7, then he should seriously be given consideration for the real job.

[dancing_joker]

Firing Jauron now shows the 'big name' coaches we have a vacancy and gives them time to really think about it.

 

Much better to do it this versus waiting until it's too late after the end of the season to fire someone, and then ending up with Norv Turner.

[Mr. WEO]

Looking at the roster composition and the remaining schedule, if Fewell wins 4 of 7, then he should seriously be given consideration for the real job.

Oh, absolutely not.

 

He should get a pat on the back and a handshake on the way out of town.

 

Clean house. Bring in one of the many better prospects.

[Orton's Arm]

So you're changing your argument...instead of "high draft picks = good players", which is routinely contradicted by the number of ****ty teams that blow high draft picks, you're arguing that "high draft picks by good teams = good players", ignoring the simple fact that very often LOW draft picks by good teams equates to good players as well (I'd bet the list of players taken in the low first round is just as long as the list of players taken early).

 

I'll tell you what...why don't you total up all the pro-Bowl appearances by top-5 picks of the past 15 years, then total up all the pro-Bowl appearances of the bottom-5 first round picks of the past 15 years, and tell me what you find? I'll run the numbers - since we long ago established that you're COMPLETELY incapable of defining "correlation", much less identifying one - and we'll see if winning really does hurt the franchise.

I'm not arguing, as you claim, that "high picks by good teams = good players." I'm stating that high picks by good general managers = good players. There's a difference. If Bill Polian has just been put in charge of a 1-15 team, you can expect good draft picks, even though the team is lousy. If Matt Millen has just been put in charge of a 13-3 team, the draft picks will likely stink, even though the team is good.

 

In one case, the Patriots traded away two picks in the lower first round to get just one top 10 draft pick. Another time they traded away their pick in the lower first round to get San Francisco's pick in the subsequent draft. (San Francisco's pick turned out to be a lot earlier in the draft than the Patriots' pick had been.) To take another example, Mike Ditka wanted Ricky Williams, and offered Bill Polian a king's ransom in exchange for the Colts trading down. Bill Polian refused, remained at 4th overall, and took Edgerrin James. Nor did Polian trade down when he had the first overall pick. Instead he stayed put, and drafted Peyton Manning.

 

The general managers of the best-run teams in the league behave as though early first round picks are worth more than picks later in the first round. Please explain why you disagree with these general managers, and why you think that a pick in the lower part of the first round is just as useful as a top 10 or top 15 pick.

[GG]

Oh, absolutely not.

 

He should get a pat on the back and a handshake on the way out of town.

 

Clean house. Bring in one of the many better prospects.

 

And embrace Jim Haslett as the savior? No thanks.

 

Anyone who can win 4 of 7 with this team on the remaining schedule deserves serious consideration. There's not a single gimme in the last 4.

[Ramius]

That's an excellent point. All those top 10 picks to which you referred were pivotal components in the Ravens' Super Bowl winning team of 2000.

 

1996: 4th overall: Jon Ogden, LT

1997: 4th overall: Peter Boulware, OLB

1998: 10th overall: Duane Starks, CB

1999: 10th overall: Chris McAllister, CB

2000: 5th overall: Jamal Lewis, RB

 

Funny. I thought spending early picks on DBs destroyed franchises.

[Dawgg]

Funny. I thought spending early picks on DBs destroyed franchises.

 

Not all DB's are created equal. Corners command huge salaries (and their salaries are rising at a fast pace) and thus top corners can go early in the draft. Small safeties, on the other hand, are a dime a dozen and are rarely taken in the top 10 (and for good reason).

[BB2004]

Without a plan in place going forward this was an absolutely pointless move at this time. The Bills should have already had multiple interviews scheduled for their permanent coach when they pulled the plug. Maybe they do, I don't know. But if not this move is just stupid and pointless.

If they want to do anything positive in the near future they should have a coach in place by Thanksgiving (and I don't mean Fewell or April or anybody else on staff) and a new GM and a reorganized front office completed before Christmas. If they can't manage that, then this move was nothing but more of Ralph Wilson's mindless bullshlt.

 

Ok then Simon, if you are so against this, then what would you have done about this situation?

[Orton's Arm]

Funny. I thought spending early picks on DBs destroyed franchises.

Using first round picks on CBs who go first contract and out--as the Bills have done all too often in the past--will hamstring your franchise. Reaching for a safety at #8 overall, based on "need," at a point in the draft when there were better football players available, and positions of greater importance to be filled, will do serious hurt to your franchise.

 

By the year 2000--perhaps earlier--the Ravens were able to protect their quarterback, block for the run, and dominate with their defensive front seven. If your team can do those things, then in hindsight spending a couple of top ten picks on CBs looks like a luxury which you were able to afford. But if the defensive front seven is mediocre, if your quarterback's getting killed, and if your early first round DBs are playing 15 yards off the ball, then a decision to invest draft picks first and foremost in your defensive secondary doesn't look so good.

[kds2931]

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?showuser=297 This is SIMON!

 

 

 

You already have.

Twice.

 

Me:

 

where can I mention good sites then?

 

Yeah, you're going to want to stop.

Now.

 

 

 

Me

 

UMMMMM Admin You didn't answer my question......you're not a good moderator if you just talk down to people and ramble on I'll report you

 

 

 

This is the exact copy....he just wants to boss the member in the forum.....and doesn't reply with information just non-sense This will hurt your member followers I am in many forums this moderator lack respect! :thumbdown:

[Simon]

I'm sure you are in many forums, spamming them with commercial links as you were about to start doing here when you told to knock it off. You're obviously only posing as a Bills fan so when you're done reporting me, take your shilling elsewhere.

 

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?showuser=297 This is SIMON!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Me

 

UMMMMM Admin You didn't answer my question......you're not a good moderator if you just talk down to people and ramble on I'll report you

 

 

 

 

This is the exact copy....he just wants to boss the member in the forum.....and doesn't reply with information just non-sense This will hurt your member followers I am in many forums this moderator lack respect! :thumbdown:

[DC Tom]

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?showuser=297 This is SIMON!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Me

 

UMMMMM Admin You didn't answer my question......you're not a good moderator if you just talk down to people and ramble on I'll report you

 

 

 

 

This is the exact copy....he just wants to boss the member in the forum.....and doesn't reply with information just non-sense This will hurt your member followers I am in many forums this moderator lack respect! :thumbdown:

 

I also recommend you post this in the following threads:

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...=103037&hl=

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...=102418&hl=

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...=100982&hl=

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...=101069&hl=

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...=101069&hl=

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...p;#entry1667034

 

Maybe then you'll get some results.