Steely Dan

Does the name Righetti mean anything to anyone?

That's what the seamstress said just before sewing my inseam. No wonder those cards are worthless.

Magox, your being extremely naive. Back when California was going through the brownouts the sheeple accepted that the power problem was due to higher demand and the inability of power plants to meet it. I did not because I don't believe what people tell me without questioning it. Common sense dictated something was going on. Could I prove it? No, but I didn't have the resources to prove it. Gray Davis had the resources but not the common sense and it cost him his job. It wasn't until the collapse of Enron that a conspiracy was provable. Like any crime you start with who stands to benefit the most from the crime. If a man is murdered and a month before his murder his wife increases his life insurance from $100,000 to $3,000,000 I can pretty much tell you that the vast majority of the time the wife had a hand in his death. Who benefited the most from the high oil prices two to three years ago? That's your main suspect. If the refining companies got !@#$ed in the whole thing then closer examination needs to be made of them to see if any individuals in the company benefited from it. Were there payoffs, extortion or other means used to get what those who ended up benefiting the most wanted? We'll probably never know for sure. If Enron hadn't collapsed we wouldn't know about the California conspiracy. You're assuming that because their stocks suffered that it was a bad deal for those running the company and it may not have been at all. Those guys only care about stock price when it can cost them their jobs or affect them financially. They don't give a **** about the little investor. If you believe they do your blinders need to be removed. Why do companies keep doing things like this? Because they can. Sheeple keep defending them because if they say they didn't do anything wrong they must not have. Using that logic we should empty the prisons of all of those who say they're innocent. Often when they are caught nobody does significant jail time. I'm sure those in the oil industry were more than sure that Bush and Cheney weren't going to launch any serious investigations. Under Sarbanes Oxley (more government involvement) that might change and more convictions may come about. The whole "I'm just the pathetic dimwit running the company" excuse is gone. To my knowledge nobody directly involved in the California energy scandal has been prosecuted or convicted of anything related to that crime. A bunch of sicko's who laugh about stealing money from grandmothers were the culprits. (Anybody in California reading this should realize they were laughing at your grandmother, even if her name isn't Millie.) They don't care about anything except lining their pockets. There is a lot more of that going on than you seem to realize or want to admit. If an in depth government investigation had been launched into the whole thing then we'd know a lot more than we do now. All I know is Ted Stevens had no intention of swearing in the oil execs and got very mad and refused to answer when asked why. There's another clue Skooby. It's sheeple like you that keep these guys in business. Nobody seriously questioned Bernie Madoff and he got away with things for years. He was stealing from charities, he didn't give a flying !@#$. His houses his bank accounts and his abilities to hide the truth in his dealings were all he cared about. Nothing more. It only takes a few people to pull these things off. 5 guys in a company can do a lot of things that nobody finds out about. There is prevailing pressure against snitches so it's not really hard to do. There is so much more of these kinds of things going on than you're business apologists mind wants to believe. Use your common sense and it's very easy to see that something very fishy was going on. It wasn't China and it wasn't corn, what it was I don't fully know but I believe a full investigation is more than warranted. I have yet to see an industry get de-regulated and somebody not taking advantage of it in an immoral if not illegal way. The sad part is that the majority of businessmen behave in a mostly ethical way and are subjected to restricting laws due to the few who don't. Unfortunately that's how it has to be. There are many laws on the books that restrict me unnecessarily because a lot of people have to be restricted from them because they lack the common sense. On a side note if you believe that product liability caps are a good idea they're not, IMO. They're not if you value human life more than money. A cap on product liability will lead to doing what the Ford Motor Company did with the Pinto. Sit down and figure out the cost to fix the problem vs. the amount of money that would be lost in liability cases. Whichever one is more economical they'll go with that. LA, You are being really naive if you think Jindal's comments were made without hearing from the oil companies first. BTW, how do you feel about what the guys at Enron did to your utility bills? Question authority people, question authority.

It bugs me when a title isn't clear enough that someone makes another post but the way around that is to use the search engine.

The inheritance tax has nothing to do with whether or not the Bills stay in Buffalo. It's up to whoever buys the team. If RW, God forbid, were to die this year all the inheritance tax means for this year is his family would pocket a lot more money.

How much the tax is has nothing to do with whether or not the Bills stay in Buffalo. That decision will be made by the new owners. Ralph's family is selling the team when he dies and nothing will change that. As for the inheritance tax, Ralph bought the Bills for $25,000 and they are now worth almost a billion. He hasn't paid any tax on that gain. When he dies the family will be expected to pay taxes owed. By getting rid of the inheritance tax the country would be losing all of the tax revenue it would get at all. There is nothing wrong with that tax. (I don't really believe that all of somebodies goods should be taken away when they die I'm illustrating a hypocrisy.) I find it laughable how some people cry about the inheritance tax in one breath and then proclaim that only people who work hard make it. Well then, I say take it all away from their kids and let their kids work hard to make it. They'd be starting at a much higher level than the vast majority of people by having private school educations, expensive college degrees and a social networking tree that the vast majority of Americans could only wish for. Oddly though nobody seems to be for that idea. I guess working hard to get it all isn't that an attractive idea to the richest who espouse it. BTW, I think this thread belongs in PPP. JMO

Smerlas was a great player and seems like a guy who'd be happy to talk to you in a bar. Thinking is not his strong suit. JMO

Because it makes them record profits. I'm not saying they were involved, it hasn't been proven, but they sure made out like bandits when oil prices were ludicrous before. JMO Are you denying that the best profits the oil companies ever made were when oil prices were sky high?

http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/4936841.php Would I? Yes to; Maggie Laughlin Debra LaFave Pamela Rogers Turner Mary Kay LeTourneau Sandra Beth Geisel Amber Jennings Carrie McCandless Maybe to; Sarah L. Tolzien Lisa Marinelli Autumn Leathers (great name) Heather Zeo Christine A.McCallum Kelsey Peterson No way to; Stephanie Ragusa Rebecca Daniels Rachel Holt Julianna Sauls Melissa Snow Adrienne Laflamme Shannon Hrozek Christina Butler

Your question is why would they want higher prices. I guess you could have asked them in the congressional hearings that Ted Stevens refused to swear them in for. They loved the higher prices. JMO

Bite me.

Ok. Got it. I disagree with your conclusion but I get it. In the 2008 the oil companies weren't complaining about higher prices. They were making more profit than ever before. They don't care what the price is they'll just pass it on to the consumer. People don't stop driving just because gas is so high. They make the lost money up in other parts of their budgets. So going by 2008 I believe they'd want higher prices. JMO I'm just curious why none of the oil companies came forward during the last ridiculous increase in prices and complained themselves. It seems they really liked the price increases, at least their bottom lines liked them. Once again this is just another scare tactic to get the public on their side. We'll see what the price of crude is in 2018.

No, what's asinine is believing anything they tell you. When they pack up and leave talk to me then, but it won't happen. You just sit there and believe anything your told and that's exactly what the oil companies want you to do. They pull off one of the biggest avoidable mistakes ever and somehow they've convinced you that they're not responsible for lost jobs in the industry. It's the big bad government making sure that things like this won't happen again that's the problem. If BP had "policed itself" to the point where this never happened there would be no deep government involvement going on now. The problem is that the industry can't police itself. They can't stop people from doing stupid things in order make money. They got all impatient because the well was taking too long to get working and cut corners that cost people their lives, the worst environmental disaster ever and the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs and yet they are crying about having to leave because of the government. They're lying to you and your buying it. You are the perfect shill, just accept what they say and question nothing.

I was looking for information on the subject but the stuff you supplied wasn't clearly written. I'm going by what you posted. According to you they are both speculation. You never made a differentiation between to the two other than to say that speculation isn't done just by investors. You need to be more clear. I didn't misinterpret anything you said. You said; Speculation doesn't come just from investors (others speculate too, and those people are), as a matter of fact, most of the contracts that are purchased come from those that process the crude into refined products such as gasoline and diesel. It's called hedging. You are the one who placed them in the same boat without any differentiation in how. Your quote only talks about who speculates and not how they speculate. I understand the difference, what you wrote wasn't very well written to make your point. Did you mean to write; Speculation doesn't just come from investors. There are two different types of speculation...

You posted this; Speculation doesn't come just from investors, as a matter of fact, most of the contracts that are purchased come from those that process the crude into refined products such as gasoline and diesel. It's called hedging. It sounds to me like you are saying that speculation also comes from those who process the crude. Which still is speculation going by what you've written above. Can we agree that the cause of oil prices in 2008 were caused by market manipulations? The point of the fat chicks is to sum up; they will put up with a lot more and are willing to accept a lot of transgressions in their men due to desperation. Do you disagree with that notion? BTW, nice job of changing the subject. Let's get back on this issue now, mmkay. You still haven't addressed the WSJ article that kind of dismisses your point about them taking too long and people leaving. It appears that possibly this week guidelines will be issued that will allow the wells to start pumping. Why don't you address that? Is it because you would feel foolish if you had to give the Obama administration credit for something? It amazes me to see how many people are fed a load a crap and when they find out it's crap say well they got me this time but there is no need to think another load of crap will be given to me. The energy crisis of the early seventies was a set up to get the oil industry de-regulated. The oil companies knew there wasn't a crisis in the amount of oil on the planet, but it worked like a charm and people keep believing the things that industry and many other industries say just so they can continue to operate in less than ethical ways. Supposedly the California brownouts were caused by user demand - well we know that was BS and that market manipulation was the cause of that. (I knew it was market manipulation long before it was proven) Then in 2008 I said that gas prices were the result of market manipulations and was laughed at. It wasn't market manipulation it was Chinese demand or, my favorite, corn in the gas. Well then it turned out to be market manipulation. It's so easy to do when people refuse to question things. The industry has cultivated a lot of shills and made them believe that it's just the bad people trying to make them honest that are causing the problems. Time and time again industries screw people over and then have the chutzpah to claim that they will never do it again and they don't need further regulations. Of course once they are deregulated all sorts of crap goes on to increase the wealth of a few at the expense of the many. Sort of like giving the rich tax cuts leads to more jobs.

Way to simplify my point. Why aren't you addressing the fact the the WH is pushing to get them back on line asap? Why are you focusing solely on the oil workers and not the millions of others who's live are being destroyed by the disaster? Is there a way that we can make working on a rig safer, which helps oilmen, and keep the environment and associated jobs safe too?

The millions of people on radio right now.

IIRC, people were buying oil contracts and holding onto them in order to get the prices up before they would sell them.

Back on topic. I think the Jests turnover is going to bite them in the ass. It wouldn't surprise me to see the Bills finish ahead of them this year. Why they felt the need to cut Thomas Jones mystifies me and a lot of the players on the Jests.

Yes, I listed all of their names to give them recognition.

When obvious trolls come around the best thing, IMO, is to ignore them. Too many people here bother to respond to them and that just feeds their desire to come back. IMO, if somebody is suspected of being a troll just ignore them. If they get no response they'll leave and never come back because they won't be having any fun.

He's not a Bills fan. He's a troll that comes in and tries to stir the pot. He's probably a fan of another AFCE team who gets his jollies from coming here and doing it. What a looser.

So then I guess speculators make up 15-20% of the total demand and that means it's a vast majority?