mannc
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Posts posted by mannc
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2 QB's have been listed in the last 33 years who got better after 6 years of suck.
Is that really how you would characterize Tyrod's career up to now?
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KC scored 24.3 ppg while Buffalo scored 24.9. Seems close right? Here is where I use the Tyrod hater argument...
KC had 5 defensive tds to Buffalos 3. Already the Defense spotted them 14 points.
KC D had 33 takeaways most in the league, Buffalo had 18. KC Defense gave them 15 extra possessions.
Buffalo played a harder schedule (.520 win % vs. .496)
How about some common opponent fun:
Tyrod gets killed for the Oakland game, The Bills scored 24 in that game. KC played them twice and scored 26 and 21 points.
Chiefs played the Jets and held them to 3 points. The Bills gave up 37 and 30 respectively.
Chiefs scored 19 against the lowly Jags, the Bills 28.
Are you including Tyreke Hill's special teams touchdowns?
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lol. He played 16 games twice in his first 6 years. I swear, the spin zone is getting better than ever.
How many times did Tyrod play 16 games in his first 6 years in the league?
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Alex Smith in 2016: 3636 yards, 20 tds, 8 ints
Tyrod Taylor in 2016: 3603 yards, 23 tds, 6 ints in what everyone says was a down year and reason to move on.
Tyrod is already as good as Alex Smith and maybe has potential to grow. Alex is who he is.
Smith also hurts the argument against Tyrod of who gets better after 6 years in the league. After 6 years Smith was almost out of the league. He got to start a lot over his first 6 years and only once passed for more than 3000 yards.
Smith has a worse career comp %, a high of 23 passing tds over 11 years and has only passed for more than 20 twice, a career QB Rating of 85.3 (TT is 92.3), and played a full season 3 times in 11 years.
You can't want to move on from Tyrod and simultaneously want Alex Smith. Smith got to play for Harbaugh and Andy Reid. Tyrod got to play for Rex.
This pretty much sums it all up. If the Bills dump TT for A Smith, it will be an indication that they still don't get it.
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I'm having a very hard time believing that Alex Smith would be an upgrade over Tyrod. He would cost at least as much, and he's six years older than TT. The world has definitely seen everything A. Smith has to offer as a QB, and it's not that great. Tyrod has started less than 30 games in the NFL and, IMO, he showed some significant improvement toward the end of 2016, once Sammy was playing again. This move would make little sense.
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And they were widely criticized for using a 4th round pick on cousins when they already had RGIII, the QB of the future.Washington could get quite a lot if they do have to trade him. What a weird scenario. They trade a ransom for RG3 and then take Cousins in the 4th round of the same draft. Then inauspiciously release RG3 after such disappointment, turmoil and controversy - all while Cousins blossomed into a FQB. Now they might be forced to trade Cousins and, if so, they'll likely get a bunch of picks back for him. You couldn't make that up.
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Watson < Goff.
Are you serious?
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You know what else doesn't win in the NFL? Greg Roman.
Or Rex Ryan, for that matter.
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It could make sense to some to dump Watkins because he might bolt. If this is what happens it means that Whaley should have been dumped this off season as well. Whaley built a team that was supposed to showcase Watkins as the center piece. If Whaley starts Cardale and trades Watkins it means that the team he built failed. Usually when a team "tanks" it is with a new GM. They are tanking because the last GM failed. Why the h*** would anyone trust Whaley to rebuild after tanking? If he got us to the point of desperation where we felt "tanking" is the only way to rebuild, why would he be the guy to help rebuild the franchise?
You make a strong point regarding Whaley, but I wouldn't call playing Cardale "tanking", because I don't think the intent would be to lose games for purposes of improving draft position. I would call it rebuilding by giving a young QB a chance to develop, while at the same time unloading some unpalatable veteran contracts (not that I would put Watkins in that category, of course). I would not be in favor or unloading Watkins because receivers like him don't grow on trees and, because of his injury history, I don't think the Bills would get enough in return for him to make it worthwhile. And Cardale will need help if he's going to develop.
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I do get it, and I understand that NC's schedule strength is a concern. I just think that in terms of judging a QB, the ACC is competitive enough to do so even if they have less top 25 ranked teams than the bigger conferences. Alabama and OSU have 2 of the premiere college football programs. How many of their QB's are starting in the NFL?
I'm just saying it's not as simple as looking at W/L or quality of opponents. Just look at Russel Wilson's stats against quality opponents when he was at NC State. More terrible than good there. Other than his great season with Wisconsin, he looked like a middling QB at NC State, which arguably had lower quality opponents.
Please. There's no way to discount Wilson's final year, at Wisconsin, which was capped by a phenomenal game in the Rose Bowl. Trubisky's thin body of work, which came against generally mediocre opponents, is definitely a concern: 6-5 against Division 1 opponents.
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I so shouldn't share this. Someone I know is friends with someone in our organization (sorry I'm being vague- I have to). The discussion at OBD is this: Cardale as the starter, and thinking of trading Shady or Watkins or both. Internal struggle is full rebuild, like what I mentioned, or trying one last run with a veteran QB
Interesting rumor. Regardless of how well he played last year, I can't believe McCoy has much, if any, trade value at this point. On the other hand, there are probably quite a few teams who would give up a first round pick for Watkins. If the Bills are truly in rebuild mode, it would make sense to dump Watkins because he seems likely to bolt as soon as his rookie deal is up, and he still has significant trade value.
I assume that this scenario would also involve drafting a QB high and letting him compete with Cardale for the job. Although there is a pretty good chance this would result in a 6-10 season (or maybe worse), it would be more fun to watch than another 8-8 season with Tyrod.
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Thanks. Once again, you're making a lot of sense.I don't usually get too involved in college scouting discussions, but since I'm a Tar Heel fan I see most of their games. Carolina lost three of their last four games this season -- two of them tight rivalry games against Duke and NC State. If you don't understand how W-L records and stats go out the window in college rivalry games, I can't help you. The other loss was two points in the bowl game against Stanford. Before that, Trubisky was 7-2 with the two losses coming in his first game as a starter and in a monsoon. The Carolina defense was pretty much inept all season and their running game was inconsistent. Trubisky also lost the team's best "traditional" WR early in the season.
If you look solely at the W-L record and "level of opponent" I think you're missing the bigger picture with Trubisky.
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2 more starts and 5 more losses against some questionable competition. Yes, I know w/l is a team thing, but 8-5 (6-5 in FBS competition) in his only year starting isn't exactly impressive
I agree. Trubisky's middling record as a starter (against weak competition) is a huge red flag for a supposed first round guy. I can't think of a single quality QB in the league right now who did not win big at the college level. Newton, Mariota, Winston, Wilson, Cousins, etc. Even Tyrod. Rodgers and Prescott won a lot of games for schools that had not had a lot of previous success and played very tough conferences.
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Don't misinterpret this as me shilling for Trubisky, but you're just not accurate in your assessment. Georgia was the first game of the season, it was basically a road game (at the Georgia Dome, not at home), and it was Trubisky's first game as the starter.
The VA Tech game was played during a hurricane; it was ridiculous they didn't postpone the game. Down the road in Raleigh, NC State and Notre Dame played one of the ugliest games in recent memory on the same day. This one gets thrown out.
You're calling the Stanford game a bad game? He made one awful throw for a pick 6 in the 2nd half and took a bad sack to take NC out of FG range in the 4th quarter, but he also led a 99-yard TD drive in the final 2:00 that nearly tied the game (missed the 2-pt conversion). During that drive he actually threw THREE TD passes -- the first two were dropped.
He developed a great late game reputation in other games as well -- in successive weeks he led ridiculous 4th quarter comebacks against Pitt and FSU.
Trubisky is a very solid pro prospect. Five games into the season I think he was completing nearly 80% of his passes. Very accurate, makes anticipation throws, and makes quick decisions. He's "mobile enough" to move in the pocket and avoid trouble. Maybe he doesn't pan out, but I wouldn't be disappointed if the Bills wound up with him.
Thanks. This is far more convincing than just saying, "He's more accurate than Cardale."
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Wrong
Chow from Hangover
Michael Jordan
James K Polk
Harrison Barnes
All UNC grads.
Dukes got Belle Knox, Richard Nixon and Richard Spencer.
Wrong again. Chow went to Duke.
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Anytime. Sink or swim w Cardale works for me if you're consigning it.
For the record, regardless whether we re-up Tyrod, I'm in favor of drafting another QB this year, but it has to be someone who is (a) a better prospect than Cardale, or (b) is available in round 3 or lower. Trubisky might turn out to be a very good pro, but I can't understand why he is considered a better or more NFL-ready prospect than Cardale. If MT were still available in round three or lower, I'd be fine with taking him there. It sounds like some other team might fall in love with him and he'll go a lot higher than that. So be it.
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Nope. Have fun with the irrelevant Dak Prescott Jared Goff take.
You have it under control.
Very persuasive. Thanks.
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False. Trubisky is a a top 10 pick
Cardale was 139th.
There are reasons
Enlighten us. What are those reasons? (And of course, no one knows where Trubisky will be picked; many QBs projected as first rounders in February have had to wait a long time to hear their names called in April.) Oh, and I suppose there were also "reasons" that Jared Goff was selected first overall last year, while Dak Prescott had to wait until the middle of the fourth round. Those "reasons" turned out to be rubbish.
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Much better accuracy
You're deluding yourself if you think Trubisky is a better prospect than Cardale because he had a higher completion percentage in college (against a far lower level of competition). If "accuracy" (as measured by completion percentage, presumably) were all that mattered, then the Kellen Moores and Bryce Pettys of the world would have been drafted in the first round and would now be franchise QBs. (Tom Brady, by the way, had a completion percentage at Michigan of just over 60, about the same as CJ.) CJ had a slightly higher YPA (8.6 vs. 8.4), won a hell of lot more big games, against better competition, is bigger, faster and has a stronger arm than Trubisky. They both played about a full season of college ball. I'm not saying that either will or will not become a star in the NFL, but there is no reason to consider Trubisky a better (or even more "pro-ready") prospect than CJ, and therefore no reason to spend a high draft pick on him or, god forbid, trade up for him.
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Yep. Before we draft this guy in the 1st round, someone needs to explain why he's a better prospect--or even less "raw"--than Cardale Jones.Gee I can't wait for this guy in the NFL. North Carolina played a handful of games against good teams. And he was pretty much less than stellar in all of them, except for Florida State, where he was pretty lights out. So, call me a little less enthusiastic about this "dart thrower". His darts didn't seem to connect much against teams that have a clue in the NCAA.
24-40 for 156 yards against Georgia at home. 0 TD's, 0 INT's.
13-33 for 58 yards against Virginia Tech at home. 0 TD's, 2 INT's
23-39 for 280 yards against Standford on a neutral field with 2 TD's and 2 INT's
Lights Out Here through, almost unexplainably....
31-38 for 405 yards, and 3 TD's at FSU. Great game.
Of course though, he lit up Illinois, JMU (FCS), Pitt, Miami, UVA, Citadel (FCS), NC State, and Duke though. Because those teams are all so good.
Mark me down as not really all that impressed. The ACC is awful outside of two schools. The defenses are awful for the most part. They played two schools in the FCS. He's a one year wonder that really wasn't all that great against some borderline top level competition. Red Flags all over if you ask me. He could end up special, but if this guys busts, you can't say there wasn't sufficient enough evidence to see that.
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I have heard that the Bills would be in line for a 3d round compensatory pick if they do not pick up the option and TT signs with another team. (Not sure if that would be in '17 or '18 draft.) If true, that is likely a consideration.Are those contract dollars or guaranteed dollars?
True. Normally a QB that will be released has no trade value. But, as Johnny H, pointed out, if there are multiple teams interested, trading for him gives you the advantage over other suitors.
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Yeah, I don't think it's a given that no team will pick up TT's contract. However, the trade market for him is probably weak because of the perception that the Bills will likely dump him. The market for TT is a great unknown.A starting QB for 15MM/yr? Don't be so sure.
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Expanding on what i said earlier. I want cardale to succeed. My main concern is that we've been consistently told hes a project. So to go from project going into week 17 one season to starting QB the following season seems like a stretch.
Before Romo went down, was anyone in the Cowboys' front office saying that Prescott was ready to start? If so, I missed it. No one has any real idea how Cardale would do if he were given a chance to play. I'm sure Cardale would struggle at times, but so what? With his tools, if he was a totally polished product, he would not have been available at the very end of round 4. The fact that you are ready to base your opinion about Cardale on how he did in one quarter of garbage time in a game that the Bills were actively trying to lose is just beyond silly.
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I think the Raiders did just that when Carr was hurt this year: McGloin finished the game but they rolled out Connor Cook after a week or two,Not really, teams do that all of the time. It's not uncommon that the vet finishes the game and the young guy plays for weeks. The Texans kind of did it with Tom Savage (although he entered during a game).
You don't put the rookie in to finish a game. You give him a week to prepare. If he isn't ready you start the vet and try again the next week. This isn't uncommon at all in the NFL. The staff knew EJ sucked. He wasn't going to be the answer in an extended absence of TT. They would have rolled Cardale out and let him sink or swim.
Bills look more likely to keep TT - working on restructure
in The Stadium Wall Archives
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