mannc
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Posts posted by mannc
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Old School with all due respect I think your missing the point
- Offense improves to 10 most scoring points in the league
- DEFENSE drops from 5th overall into the middle of the league
- End result...the wins/losses remain the same for the team
Now Im not saying that the offense could not have been better....it could have....but which one here was the most likely reason we missed the playoffs?
I don't have a link, but the advanced statistics guys ranked our defense quite a bit lower than middle of the pack last year...more like "bottom of the barrel."
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I think that you hit on what a lot of people were missing. They start talking about all of these other receivers from the draft that have played well. At the time of the draft only Evans was considered in his league and probably less than 1 out of 20 would have ranked Evans higher. Watkins was an ELITE prospect with a high ceiling and a high floor. He was clean on the medical end and had just a small off the field issue (think it was weed as a young player). He had just come off of a game where he ANNAHILATED an elite OSU secondary. Watkins was the highest graded player on many teams board in 2014 and higher than any prospect in 2013. He was, by many accounts, the best player to come out between the end of the 2012 draft and the start of the 2015 draft. He was considered the best receiver prospect since Julio and AJ Green and graded out similarly.
Since coming into the league he has had some nagging injuries but that is bad luck. We didn't know that coming out. When he has been thrown the ball he has performed like the prospect that he was. The Bills need to get him healthy and to throw him the ball 10 times a game. if you do that he will unquestionably be a star.
Maybe it's revisionist history, but I have seen recent reports that before the 2014 draft, more than a few scouts viewed Watkins as a very good prospect (15th to 20th selection) rather than an elite one (top five). At the time, almost all of the reports I remember seeing fell into the former category and don't think there was any way Watkins would have dropped to 9, but apparently there were some doubters...
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Nothing personal, but I hate the term "game changer". I understand what you are saying, though. I think (1) it's unfair to pin a team's win or losses on a WR, or any one player for that matter, and (2) when he was healthy, Watkins was underutilized, although he still produced. I hope Dennison plans to change that in 2017.The same could be said in they 2 games they won with him as a starter, Cleveland and Jacksonville, the two teams combined for 4 wins. The bottom line is that so far in his career, he has not been a game changer. People make it sound like they cant win without him, when to the contrary, last year they had a better record without him than without him.
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You might want to look at who the Bills were playing in those games, and how healthy Sammy was in some of the games he did play. If you think a healthy Watkins would not help the Bills win games in 2017, then I just don't know what to say. And of course, any future draft pick(s) the Bills might acquire for Watkins would contribute zero this coming season.I would have to disagree, that if they did trade Sammy, that they were giving up on the season (and how healthy. Sammy was not an impact player for them last year. The team went 5-3 without him and 2-6 with him. And in one of the wins he played in was against Cleveland, he had 1 catch for 10 yards in garbage time. Maybe they think they can find a player who can contribute to wins with the pick they would get in return.
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. I disagree with your assessment of Z Jones, but I too disliked both of the trade ups in a very deep draft. I dislike the Jones trade up a little less because at least it was two picks for two picks. IMO, it's always better to just be patient. There is every chance that Jones or Samuel is still there at 44.Now let's get to the draft. Tre White was drafted in the right place. I won't get into who they passed because that has been exhausted to death. But it was a QB prospect that someone who was his former boss and QB guru wanted. That should have alerted Sean that he might not have the winning hand. Now to Zay Jones. I think he was not only a reach but we spent a 2nd AND 3rd on him. Terrible value for a future 2nd or 3rd possession receiver. Dawkins I love as a pick and where we got him. But again, to fill the need they gave away picks. You don't trade away picks when you are building or rebuilding to fill needs.
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I agree, and if Beane were to make that deal, it would sway me to your position that McDermott and company are in over their heads. I can't see it happening, though. It would, IMO, amount to giving up on 2017, which the new coach cannot afford to do.I don't think anyone has ever accused me of drinking the Koolaid on this board and I can state that Sammy Watkins is a special talent who the Bills would be foolish to trade for a low 1st or 2nd round pick.
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So, interpolated over 16 games with Tyrod, Watkins would "average" about 1200 yards on 17.5 YPC? Those don't look like career-killing numbers to me. Sort of undermines the "Watkins wants out of Buffalo because Tyrod is trash" narrative, doesn't it?Sure, it could be argued that way, true.
But it's not like Sammy Watkins was some well-established vet in the NFL who's proven he can be an Elite WR. I love the guy's talent, but he's been massively underwhelming in the NFL based on expectations.
Still, it's notable that Sammy has split time almost exactly evenly between Taylor and the combo of Orton/Jones/Manuel with 19 games under Taylor (1 of those being a 1 catch 1st quarter injury in Miami in 2015 and out) and 18 under those other guys.
1398 yards, 73.6 yards per game, 17.5 yards per catch
1061 yards, 58.9 yards per game, 14.5 yards per catch
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It's a silly question to begin with because there are no five-team divisions in the NFL. First, you have to ask who the Bills would switch places with. If they switched with GB, the Billls would compete for the title every year, given a steady diet of Bears, vikes and Lions. It would be a bit different if we swapped places with CHI...Guys, maybe you are poking fun, but honestly it isn't that hard:
Packers fan:
How well do you think the Bills would do if you played in the NFC North? If you had to play us, Chicago, Minnesota and Detroit? You think you would sweep us?
On topic, I'm with the rest that answered, I think we would split with 1-2 teams and sweep the other 2. So between 4-6 wins out of 8 games. On the other side, the Packers would probably make out better in the AFC East despite the Patriots. Bills have been mediocre, and the Jets/Dolphins are trash.
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It would be a terrible idea, and pretty strong evidence that our new administration is clueless. If they were going to trade Watkins, they should have done it before the draft and before they declined the year five option. Now he has less value to a potential trading partner.
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Well, if the Bills switched places with GB (meaning they would only have to play DET, MN, and CHI within the division) they would be contenders every year.
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Wow, talk about hindsight.
Dareus was the best D-Lineman in the draft, and that's what the Bills needed.
No one could have predicted what would happen in his personal life.
He's an outstanding player on defense who for the last two years was asked to play NT, a position he was not meant to play.
Yes, he's an idiot for getting himself suspended, and he needs to change his attitude, but he is arguably the best player the Bills have on defense.
So we can't use hindsight to evaluate draft picks? Are we required, then, to simply rely on what Mel and Todd and Mayock said at the time about the pick? At any rate, you did not need extraordinary powers to know that AJ Green and Julio Jones (not to mention Patrick Peterson) were going to have a far greater impact than even a very good defensive tackle.
As to your statement that Dareus was the "best d-lineman in the draft", well, that just laughable. He's at best the fourth best defensive lineman taken in the first round that year, behind JJ Watt, Ryan Kerrigan, and Mo Wilkerson. It's a stretch to say Dareus has been better than Cameron Jordan and there is no way in hell he's better than Jurrell Casey, who the Titans took in Round 3.
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They could, but it would be a waste of breath.Do Falcons fans complain about the A.j. green trade ?
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I said "outside TBD". Show me a list of top five interior linemen that included Dareus.Prior to last year, Dareus was most certainly a top 5 interior lineman.
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Dareus has had his moments and he has not been a bust, but he does not play a premium position and there were generational talents taken at premium positions immediately after him. It is irrelevant that he was not considered a reach at the time. Although Dareus has talent, outside of TBD he is not considered a top five (or even top ten) interior lineman.He was hardly a bad pick at the time; he was widely considered one of the best players in that class.
I'll admit that there were a vocal minority of us that wanted JJ Watt, but most folks thought Cam/Von Miller/Dareus/AJ Green were the elites in that class.
Also, Dareus was a wrecking ball in '13 and '14. I don't excuse his off-field behavior, but the fact that Rex's defense adversely affected every player along the defensive front can hardly be ignored here.
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That hurts. Anyone who thinks Dareus is in the same universe as those guys is delusional. He was a bad pick and an example of the perils of drafting for need.for those worried about passing on troubled talent
PRO BOWL players picked after Dareus in 2011
#4 - aj green
#5- patrick peterson
#6- julio jones
#9 - tyron smith
#11- jj watt
#15 - mike pouncy
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Wow. What a load of rubbish. If this is a window into Whaley's thought process, then it's pretty scary that he was in charge of this team for so long.Former Bills GM Doug Whaley for the first time Monday addressed Buffalo's decision to allow RB Mike Gillislee to sign a two-year, $6.4 million offer sheet with New England last month. Whaley told SiriusXM NFL Radio that he believes the Patriots can "overpay" for players like Gillislee because Tom Brady is paid a less than market-value deal.
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John, you have no idea what was happening in the negotiation. All you're doing is guessing. And any reporter who said Tyrod had to accept a lesser deal to remain with the team was guessing, too, or being duped. I'm sure OBD wanted Tyrod and his agent to believe that.
That being said, it's not unreasonable to conclude that Tyrod and his agent had some idea what his value might be on the open market, whether through back channels or just through talking to people around the league. The truth is, I don't know if they had inside information or not, and neither do you. But it would not surprise me if there was a pretty tepid market for Tyrod. He is an unconventional quarterback and I'm sure a lot of teams were not interested in redesigning their offenses to suit his perceived strengths and weaknesses. Ironically, it is those same unconventional qualities that make Tyrod a difficult QB for other teams to gameplan against.
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Very interesting. Thanks.Doug Whaley: One of the guys we took a lot of pride in, when we didnt have a 1st round pick was Ronald Darby. #Bills
Doug Whaley: This is a production based business and bottom line is we didn't produce enough wins.
"If I get a shot again to be a GM in this league I would make sure I secured a franchise QB, quickly" Doug Whaley
Doug Whaley on Pegulas: "Great owners, great people & great owners. There's nothing that we asked as personnel dept that they said no to."
Doug Whaley on draft room: It wasnt uncomfortable at all. We worked well together. It was a great working relationship [with Sean McD]."
Doug Whaley: As a parting gift, we left them with two [first-round picks] next year.
Doug Whaley on @SiriusXMNFL that the Pegulas are great people and great owners. We did not produce. I take full responsibility."
Hearing how Brandon Beane breaks down the QB position compared to how Doug Whaley did should give all Bills fans hope for better days.
Whaley: "It was business as usual in that draft room and we all worked well together and the draft the #Bills had was reflective of that".
Whaley: "Right now I'm reconnecting w the family. I'm just going to take a deep breath, sit back & relax & listen to things coming my way."
Whaley said that he got a note from Jim Tressel after he was fired by #Bills that said: "Next chapter will be the best chapter."
Doug Whaley has been reconnecting with his family since being fired by the Bills. He says he is considering opportunities outside football
Whaley on Sean McDermott: He will have them in position to win a lot of football games. The Buffalo #Bills wont be beating themselves.
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You and I are riding different horses on the carousel so neither one is going to catch up to the other. Our differences are irreconcilable because our evaluations are the qb are different. My position is that being an adequate qb is not good enough to get you anywhere meaningful. You see more than I do; I have seen enough. We just respectfully disagree.
Kirby can speak for himself, but I don't think he was expressing his own opinion about Tyrod's ability. He was just arguing from the available evidence that the Bills don't necessarily view Tryod as strictly a bridge QB, and I think the fact that they did not draft Watson or Mahomes this year lends strong support to that view.
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Your response makes no sense at all. If what you are saying is accurate then why did TT agree to a modified deal? TT and his reps knew that there wasn't a better deal for him on the market. Because if there were offers (under the table) he would have simply walked away to a better offer and situation.
The facts are that the Bills didn't release him because he adjusted[/b[ his contract. If he would have insisted on keeping his original deal then odds are that McDermott would have also allowed him to walk. What is well known now is that once McDermott was hired he was running the show. And it is probable that he was not going to keep him under the original terms because the lower deal was worked out when McDermott was de facto the boss.
John, you have no idea whether what you are espousing as established fact (that Tyrod would have been dropped if he did not restructure) is true. And then you attempt to back it up with speculation about what teams might have illegally offered "under the table" for Tyrod's services. You then throw in some circular reasoning: McDermott would not have kept Tyrod under his original deal because he negotiated a lower one. Come on, you're better than that.
There were many potential reasons Tyrod would have agreed to restructure, many of which Hokie has already covered in this thread. But one of the potential reasons is that Tyrod and his agent believed that the Bills might not pick up the option if he refused to restructure, and they chose to take what the Bills were offering, for many different reasons. It's called a negotiation, and neither side really knows what the other side is going to do.
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I'm mostly in agreement. I'm willing to wait and see.You have avoided the simple question that Shaw66 has put to you: What recent front office and coaching hire has bothered you so much that you are out of hand rejecting it as a bad transaction? What recent player transaction has bothered you so much that you have already rejected it as being bad?
None of the people responding to your post has denied you the right to be skeptical. But when asked by Shaw66 and others what specific decision/s do you find so offensive that you out of hand reject it you vaguely respond about the history contaminating the present. That is a very thin response. There is nothing wrong with you being skeptical because I am to a lesser degree wary of the immediate empowering of the wrestling coach over the football operation. But even on that issue I am a little less troubled because the staff assembled in the front office seem to be high quality.
In my view this team is a few years away from being a serious team. So you are going to have plenty of time and opportunities to express your displeasure as to what is unfolding. However, it seems to me that the ground work that is being laid down in the beginning stage of this takeover is being down properly and smartly. Only time will tell.
For those who were/are opposed to the McDermott hire, who would you have gone with instead?
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That most certainly was not a fact. That might have been the Bills' negotiating stance, but IMO it is unlikely they would have released him, especially after McDermott was hired. You're statement that Tyrod would have been released is nothing more than your uninformed speculation.If Tryod was not willing to modify his contract he was going to be released. That was a fact.
Exactly right. They want to see what Tyrod does this year, with another season under his belt, a new system, and (hopefully) some healthy WRs.Someone made an important distinction between a "bridge" deal and a "prove-it" deal. Hoyer is a bridge QB. McCown is a bridge QB. Glennon (now) is a bridge QB (but wasn't at the time of signing). Bridge QBs are guys that you are certain to move on from. Often you have the successor in the building already.
Tyrod is on a prove-it deal to me. It's a totally new staff and scheme. They had an opportunity to add his successor this year and they punted. The kicked that can down the road, electing to evaluate him instead. They've insured against a bad season with the extra 1st rounder. I would suspect that the plan is to use it on a QB but certainly wouldn't guarantee it. The actions that they've taken show us that they want to evaluate.
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Tyrod was never a free agent, so your question is just silly, even when you ask it twice.Name a team that was interested in Taylor and made an effort to acquire him? Taylor took a pay cut cut in salary and had the terms of his contract altered so he could remain with the Bills. Again, name a team that showed an interest in him and took any measure to get him when he was available?
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As to your first paragraph, I agree that the trade has worked out pretty well for KC, but Buffalo acquired TT without giving up a single draft pick and at a much lower cap hit. Your preference for Smith over Taylor is certainly not supported by their comparative stats for the past two years; Smith has enjoyed a far better defense, as well as vastly superior coaching. Taylor is seven years younger than smith and has started only 29 games. I'll take Tyrod at this point, and it's not close.I would take Alex Smith over Tyrod under any circumstances. The deal for Smith worked out well for KC. They are a playoff team with him taking the snaps. And compared to TT he uses whole field. The criticism of him that he too often throws the underneath stuff because he is overly cautions is warranted. But without question the trade that KC made for him has worked out well for them.
Tyrod could have put himself on the market if he wanted to but didn't because there wasn't much interest in him. He ended up taking a pay cut and the term of his contract was shortened so the team could be in a better position to walk away from him if it decided to.
Your second paragraph is nothing but speculation that has already been thoroughly discussed.
Rumor- Bills will entertain trade offers for Watkins?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Maybe, but those scouts, if they existed, were probably right (and I'm a big Sammy fan).