mannc
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Posts posted by mannc
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I'm not buying into your perceived views of what people's intentions or motives are. The rest of the developed world and the majority of the country believes its good policy and that is what I'm focused on. It's clear to me that your main concern is purely about partisan politics, which tells me that you are unable to view policy for what it is.
It doesn't really matter what the legislature's intent is (although the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals recently found that in passing its voting restrictions, the gerrymandered republican legislature of North Carolina specifically intended to disenfranchise minority voters); if the restrictive voting rules are not reasonably calculated to address a real problem and they have a disproportionate effect on the voting rights of minority groups, then they are illegal. (That's a bit of a simplification, I admit.) It is also irrelevant what "the majority of the country believes is good policy". That's why we have a constitution.
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I'm asking you a question. Forget about what you believe the motives are, lets focus on the policy.
If there are services that provide transportation at no cost to obtain an ID, would you then still be opposed to having to provide ID like the rest of the world does and what 80% of country believes we should do?
Probably not but it would depend upon the details of the law in question, the history of voting rights in the state and the impact the law would have on minority voters. In my state, all voting is by mail and therefore no ID is required, and yet there has been no issue whatsoever with voter fraud.
"Voter fraud" is a pretense for making it more difficult for certain types of people (who tend to vote democratic and are more likely to be minorities) to vote. It is also worth mentioning that the laws passed by Republican legislatures to make it harder to vote are not limited to ID requirements. They also involve shutting down polling places early, curtailing early voting and other similar measures that have been shown to disproportionately affect would-be Democratic voters. This has been a major point of emphasis for Republicans for a long time and they have gotten very adept at passing facially neutral laws that nonetheless have the effect of suppressing the minority/Democratic vote. Many of those laws have been tossed by the courts, some have passed constitutional muster, and others are in the process of being challenged.
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I must have missed the Alabama link. I'm not sure what voting restrictions are in place in Wisconsin, Mississippi or South Carolina, but I'm pretty sure that, armed with zero evidence of voter fraud, the gerrymandered Republican legislatures in those states have passed laws that make it more difficult for new voters to register, and that those laws have the effect of disproportionately reducing the number of registered minority voters, who not surprisingly tend to vote democratic.
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Check out the 2nd link I edited in, and sort the census data by race. There is a DMV office in every single black majority county. Some are only open 1 day a month, but this is also the case in white majority counties.
I don't have time to cross-check that with the two links you've provided, but even if it's true, do you think it's reasonable for Alabama to pass a law requiring a DMV-issued identification in order to vote, when many counties in the state have DMV offices that are open only one day per month and many counties have no DMV offices at all? Do you see how that makes it more difficult (not impossible--more difficult) for people to vote? And if, as I believe to be the case, blacks in Alabama are far less likely than whites to have such identification, do you see how such laws have the effect (if not the expressed intent) of suppressing the black vote? And on top of that, throw in Alabama's despicable history of depriving its black citizens of their right to vote, their right to attend the state university, etc...
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Brooklyn, with 2.6 million people (50% are African American or Caribbean ), has only 2 DMV's.
Why do you think that is? Because NYS is run by racists, or not that many people need to use the DMV as more suburban areas do (Monroe county has a ton of DMVs)?
I'm not sure why Brooklyn only has only two DMV offices (assuming that's true), but at least they have some. Are you unable to see the difference between Kings County (Brooklyn), which has widespread, cheap and reliable public transportation, and counties in rural Alabama that have no DMV offices and virtually no public transportation?
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I am going to call BS on that. Just looked up a few and clear as day DMV offices in several primarily black counties.
http://dps.alabama.gov/home/DriverLicensePages/wfDLOffices.aspx
Sorry, but your link does not refute what I posted. I acknowledge that there are DMV offices in a couple of black majority counties. The issue is the other eight that don't have offices.
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There only 4.9 million people in the entire state. Maybe they cut the ones where no one was coming in for driver's licenses?
Like 8 of the 10 counties with the highest black population. But hey...Alabama has such a long and admirable history of supporting the voting rights of its black residents that I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
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Those stats hurt your own argument. 25% of the population of Alabama is black, and yet they closed 38% of the DMVs in black majority areas.
Oh, it's far worse than that. Of the 10 Alabama counties with highest black population, only two will have DMV offices. This in a state where 20 percent of the adult population (and an even higher percentage of the black population) lacks a drivers license or alternative DMV-issued ID.
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Kaep actions is like a child that whines that his room is dirty and sits down pouting in the middle because he doesn't want to clean it. Only after he gets all the attention from throwing a temper tantrum is he going to help clean it. Seems like a very self-absorbed move.
Maybe I'm just slow, but I think you're going to have to explain your analogy a little bit. It doesn't make any sense to me.
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What are the numbers for this vs fraud?
I don't understand your question, but I think we can assume that the "problem" of illegal immigrants voting in Alabama is a non-existent one. Alabama has such a sterling history of facilitating minority voting rights . . .
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Might as well start retroactively hating Jackie Robinson: http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/08/29/jackie-robinson-i-cannot-stand-and-sing-the-anthem-i-cannot-salute-the-flag/
He was an ingrate...
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So stop with the ridiculous excuses. Let's come up with a plan to get everyone an ID, and they insist they use that ID to vote.
Like in Alabama, where the Republican legislature passed a law requiring drivers licenses (or similar identification) in order to vote, then closed down the DMV offices in all of the black majority counties?
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Statistically more
republicanswhite voters use the absentee ballot thandemocratsminority voters. But that is not an issue that should matter. If the legislators are serious about curtailing voter fraud then they should deal with it where it does exist.This is true and it is why the law that was struck down in North Carolina, which supposedly was intended to reduce voter fraud, made an exception for absentee ballots. I don't know it it's true that there is more voter fraud associated with absentee ballots--the scope of the voting fraud "problem" is so miniscule that it is all but non-existent.
By the way...note to mods...thanks for leaving this on the main page. I know you generally push stuff like this to the dark side, but civility has been good here and as a result the conversation has been pretty good as well.
On this, we can agree.
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The right is not trying to take that right away. They are trying to protect it because voter fraud is so rampant. It stuns me, sometimes, how unbelievably uninformed our electorate is.
This is what is known as The Big Lie. There is zero evidence to support this statement, which has been repeatedly rejected by the federal courts in voting rights cases.
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Trump has now weighed in on this issue, in his usual thoughtful and nuanced fashion: CK's protest against perceived racial discrimination against African-Americans is "a terrible thing", and he should just go live in another country. (Sorry, no link.)
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Don't worry. He won't respond. It doesn't fit his narrative to understand this until the left can explain why its bad.
He doesn't have to respond or explain. The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals already tossed NC's new voter registration law on the grounds that it was intended to illegally suppress the voting rights of African-Americans and other minorities.
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Wait, I thought you wanted this thread closed down????
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On this we agree.
I have a big heart for the black community and I wish I had the power to fix it. I hate thinking about any person feeling hopeless - as I sit in my very comfortable life.
The crappiest part is it's not hopeless - but the mindset of these communities is one nightmare to try and fix. This issue is so daunting it's depressing.
Of course it's not hopeless. They can vote for Trump! After all, what do they have to lose?
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I've only worked for 2 employers as an adult. One for 35 years and one for 12 years. It's been my experience that no matter my personal feelings and problems, as an employee, I am a representative of my employer.
Kaepernick is an employee of the 49er's and by extension, the NFL. Unless and until he's a designated spokesperson for either, he needs support and conform to their philosophy. IF he does not want to do that, he's free to seek other employment.
The guy makes 19 Mil a year. What has he done off the field to demonstrate his position?? On the field, he needs to do what his employer expects him to do, represent the team, and win games. He may have a whole lot of time, in the future, to sit or stand, as much as he wants, on his own time.
No, Kaepernik's rights are protected by the collective bargaining agreement between the league and the NFL Players Association. I've never read it, but I'm pretty sure it protects players from discipline for expressing their political views. So no, CK does not have to "support and conform to [the 49er's and the NFL's] philosophy."
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I'll share 3 experiences from the city of Chicago...
My car got badly sideswiped while parked in the city just as I was about to get in. I did then jump in and chase the sonofabitch a couple miles and pulled him over. The police were called from the scene and also the 2nd scene where he briefly stopped but refused to stay. He took off again but I had name and license plate number. Police came to original scene, I filed report and asked that hit and run charges be filed. Chicago refused to pursue it, it never became a case, they told me that they don't have time. $9K in damage.
My daughter's wallet was stolen recently while riding train in the city. She reported it a couple hours later, police blew her off. She contacted a store where her CC was used and manager looked at video tape with a clear view of the person. She called the police with this info and they said, sorry, can't help you, bigger fish to fry.
While in downtown Chicago and parked, friends car was broken into, briefcase taken with ipad. Called police who wouldn't even send an officer out to the scene. Friend did a locate on the ipad and located ipad a couple hours later in a "very bad neighborhood". Called police who told friend they would not pursue and instructed friend not to try and recover the ipad themselves.
1st 2 instances above were committed by minorities and very likely the 3rd given location of stolen property. Point is that crimes like these in big cities are most likely under-reported in statistics and minorities are probably involved in crimes in big cities more than what reported data shows.
One of the most bizarre and pointless posts ever to appear on this board. And that's saying a lot.
How ironic that the ones most vehemently blasting Kap are most likely to be supporters of a certain Presidential candidate who took every deferment in the book to get out of serving his country (one of the deferments being a bogus bone spur), trashed POWs saying he liked the men who didn't get captured, and trashed a Gold Star family and has refused to apologize. This isn't the United States of America, it's the United States of Cognitive Dissonance.
And that same presidential candidate became the nominee of one of our two major political parties by promoting an agenda so transparently racist that, according to recent polls, he has the support of less than 1 percent of African-Americans.
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Nothing in this thread has a damn thing to do with what he went through, much less the supposed " under appreciation" of same.I just spend the evening with a friend who was in 10th Mountain during Black Hawk Down. I was talking to him about this thread and he can't believe how many people under appreciate what he went through.
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I did not say I agreed or disagreed with Kaep on the underlying issue. Frankly, I haven't studied it that closely and I think there are plenty of other issues he perhaps should have chosen to take a stand on. To me, what's important is that he has taken a principled public stance on a highly controversial issue, without regard to the personal consequences to himself. Contrast that with OJ, for example...What was the racial makeup of the cops who killed Garner? Freddy Gray? The Garner case was brought to a grand jury which, based on evidence and witnesses, did not indict.
The Freddy Gray cops--all 6 were charged with various crimes (one for murder). There were acquitted and the charges were subsequently dropped against the other three.
These may not be the consequences Kaepernick wished for, but they were put through the legal system, not simply ignored.
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I'm not sure if this is true or not (I doubt it), but I think an equally important issue is the perception that cops who unjustifiably kill or brutalize black or minority suspects tend not to be held accountable. That's frequently what leads to unrest.That's where I am as well...there's zero evidence that the issue of police brutality is unique to any race--it's pretty much distributed (statistically) in proportion to the general population
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Wow, that was quite an interview. Agree or disagree with Kaep re the issue of police brutality, there is no question that he is taking a principled stand on a controversial issue, with little concern for the personal consequences. I kinda think it's an admirable and courageous thing to do.Kaep spoke about it for 18 minutes today. Answered all questions asked of him.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2016/08/28/colin-kaepernick-anthem-protest-much-much/
And his comments about the presidential race are interesting--and somewhat surprising
Kaepernick and the National Anthem
in Politics, Polls, and Pundits
Posted
And yet, in my state, all voting is by mail (with no ID requirement at all) and voter fraud has been all but non-existent. How do you explain that? From the Oregonian newspaper:
Statutes pertaining to Oregon election laws run for pages and pages. But, for the most part, voter fraud and related illegalities are exceedingly rare, according to Oregon Secretary of State Jeanne P. Atkins.
"I've been in this job since last March (2015)," she said. "And I've had only four or five of those come across my desk. I'd call it a relative rarity."
What scant voter malfeasance exists almost always involves one family member signing the ballot envelope of another — something that's strictly prohibited by law.