mannc
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Posts posted by mannc
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I do get it, and I understand that NC's schedule strength is a concern. I just think that in terms of judging a QB, the ACC is competitive enough to do so even if they have less top 25 ranked teams than the bigger conferences. Alabama and OSU have 2 of the premiere college football programs. How many of their QB's are starting in the NFL?
I'm just saying it's not as simple as looking at W/L or quality of opponents. Just look at Russel Wilson's stats against quality opponents when he was at NC State. More terrible than good there. Other than his great season with Wisconsin, he looked like a middling QB at NC State, which arguably had lower quality opponents.
Please. There's no way to discount Wilson's final year, at Wisconsin, which was capped by a phenomenal game in the Rose Bowl. Trubisky's thin body of work, which came against generally mediocre opponents, is definitely a concern: 6-5 against Division 1 opponents.
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I so shouldn't share this. Someone I know is friends with someone in our organization (sorry I'm being vague- I have to). The discussion at OBD is this: Cardale as the starter, and thinking of trading Shady or Watkins or both. Internal struggle is full rebuild, like what I mentioned, or trying one last run with a veteran QB
Interesting rumor. Regardless of how well he played last year, I can't believe McCoy has much, if any, trade value at this point. On the other hand, there are probably quite a few teams who would give up a first round pick for Watkins. If the Bills are truly in rebuild mode, it would make sense to dump Watkins because he seems likely to bolt as soon as his rookie deal is up, and he still has significant trade value.
I assume that this scenario would also involve drafting a QB high and letting him compete with Cardale for the job. Although there is a pretty good chance this would result in a 6-10 season (or maybe worse), it would be more fun to watch than another 8-8 season with Tyrod.
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Thanks. Once again, you're making a lot of sense.I don't usually get too involved in college scouting discussions, but since I'm a Tar Heel fan I see most of their games. Carolina lost three of their last four games this season -- two of them tight rivalry games against Duke and NC State. If you don't understand how W-L records and stats go out the window in college rivalry games, I can't help you. The other loss was two points in the bowl game against Stanford. Before that, Trubisky was 7-2 with the two losses coming in his first game as a starter and in a monsoon. The Carolina defense was pretty much inept all season and their running game was inconsistent. Trubisky also lost the team's best "traditional" WR early in the season.
If you look solely at the W-L record and "level of opponent" I think you're missing the bigger picture with Trubisky.
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2 more starts and 5 more losses against some questionable competition. Yes, I know w/l is a team thing, but 8-5 (6-5 in FBS competition) in his only year starting isn't exactly impressive
I agree. Trubisky's middling record as a starter (against weak competition) is a huge red flag for a supposed first round guy. I can't think of a single quality QB in the league right now who did not win big at the college level. Newton, Mariota, Winston, Wilson, Cousins, etc. Even Tyrod. Rodgers and Prescott won a lot of games for schools that had not had a lot of previous success and played very tough conferences.
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Don't misinterpret this as me shilling for Trubisky, but you're just not accurate in your assessment. Georgia was the first game of the season, it was basically a road game (at the Georgia Dome, not at home), and it was Trubisky's first game as the starter.
The VA Tech game was played during a hurricane; it was ridiculous they didn't postpone the game. Down the road in Raleigh, NC State and Notre Dame played one of the ugliest games in recent memory on the same day. This one gets thrown out.
You're calling the Stanford game a bad game? He made one awful throw for a pick 6 in the 2nd half and took a bad sack to take NC out of FG range in the 4th quarter, but he also led a 99-yard TD drive in the final 2:00 that nearly tied the game (missed the 2-pt conversion). During that drive he actually threw THREE TD passes -- the first two were dropped.
He developed a great late game reputation in other games as well -- in successive weeks he led ridiculous 4th quarter comebacks against Pitt and FSU.
Trubisky is a very solid pro prospect. Five games into the season I think he was completing nearly 80% of his passes. Very accurate, makes anticipation throws, and makes quick decisions. He's "mobile enough" to move in the pocket and avoid trouble. Maybe he doesn't pan out, but I wouldn't be disappointed if the Bills wound up with him.
Thanks. This is far more convincing than just saying, "He's more accurate than Cardale."
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Wrong
Chow from Hangover
Michael Jordan
James K Polk
Harrison Barnes
All UNC grads.
Dukes got Belle Knox, Richard Nixon and Richard Spencer.
Wrong again. Chow went to Duke.
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Anytime. Sink or swim w Cardale works for me if you're consigning it.
For the record, regardless whether we re-up Tyrod, I'm in favor of drafting another QB this year, but it has to be someone who is (a) a better prospect than Cardale, or (b) is available in round 3 or lower. Trubisky might turn out to be a very good pro, but I can't understand why he is considered a better or more NFL-ready prospect than Cardale. If MT were still available in round three or lower, I'd be fine with taking him there. It sounds like some other team might fall in love with him and he'll go a lot higher than that. So be it.
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Nope. Have fun with the irrelevant Dak Prescott Jared Goff take.
You have it under control.
Very persuasive. Thanks.
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False. Trubisky is a a top 10 pick
Cardale was 139th.
There are reasons
Enlighten us. What are those reasons? (And of course, no one knows where Trubisky will be picked; many QBs projected as first rounders in February have had to wait a long time to hear their names called in April.) Oh, and I suppose there were also "reasons" that Jared Goff was selected first overall last year, while Dak Prescott had to wait until the middle of the fourth round. Those "reasons" turned out to be rubbish.
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Much better accuracy
You're deluding yourself if you think Trubisky is a better prospect than Cardale because he had a higher completion percentage in college (against a far lower level of competition). If "accuracy" (as measured by completion percentage, presumably) were all that mattered, then the Kellen Moores and Bryce Pettys of the world would have been drafted in the first round and would now be franchise QBs. (Tom Brady, by the way, had a completion percentage at Michigan of just over 60, about the same as CJ.) CJ had a slightly higher YPA (8.6 vs. 8.4), won a hell of lot more big games, against better competition, is bigger, faster and has a stronger arm than Trubisky. They both played about a full season of college ball. I'm not saying that either will or will not become a star in the NFL, but there is no reason to consider Trubisky a better (or even more "pro-ready") prospect than CJ, and therefore no reason to spend a high draft pick on him or, god forbid, trade up for him.
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Yep. Before we draft this guy in the 1st round, someone needs to explain why he's a better prospect--or even less "raw"--than Cardale Jones.Gee I can't wait for this guy in the NFL. North Carolina played a handful of games against good teams. And he was pretty much less than stellar in all of them, except for Florida State, where he was pretty lights out. So, call me a little less enthusiastic about this "dart thrower". His darts didn't seem to connect much against teams that have a clue in the NCAA.
24-40 for 156 yards against Georgia at home. 0 TD's, 0 INT's.
13-33 for 58 yards against Virginia Tech at home. 0 TD's, 2 INT's
23-39 for 280 yards against Standford on a neutral field with 2 TD's and 2 INT's
Lights Out Here through, almost unexplainably....
31-38 for 405 yards, and 3 TD's at FSU. Great game.
Of course though, he lit up Illinois, JMU (FCS), Pitt, Miami, UVA, Citadel (FCS), NC State, and Duke though. Because those teams are all so good.
Mark me down as not really all that impressed. The ACC is awful outside of two schools. The defenses are awful for the most part. They played two schools in the FCS. He's a one year wonder that really wasn't all that great against some borderline top level competition. Red Flags all over if you ask me. He could end up special, but if this guys busts, you can't say there wasn't sufficient enough evidence to see that.
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I have heard that the Bills would be in line for a 3d round compensatory pick if they do not pick up the option and TT signs with another team. (Not sure if that would be in '17 or '18 draft.) If true, that is likely a consideration.Are those contract dollars or guaranteed dollars?
True. Normally a QB that will be released has no trade value. But, as Johnny H, pointed out, if there are multiple teams interested, trading for him gives you the advantage over other suitors.
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Yeah, I don't think it's a given that no team will pick up TT's contract. However, the trade market for him is probably weak because of the perception that the Bills will likely dump him. The market for TT is a great unknown.A starting QB for 15MM/yr? Don't be so sure.
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Expanding on what i said earlier. I want cardale to succeed. My main concern is that we've been consistently told hes a project. So to go from project going into week 17 one season to starting QB the following season seems like a stretch.
Before Romo went down, was anyone in the Cowboys' front office saying that Prescott was ready to start? If so, I missed it. No one has any real idea how Cardale would do if he were given a chance to play. I'm sure Cardale would struggle at times, but so what? With his tools, if he was a totally polished product, he would not have been available at the very end of round 4. The fact that you are ready to base your opinion about Cardale on how he did in one quarter of garbage time in a game that the Bills were actively trying to lose is just beyond silly.
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I think the Raiders did just that when Carr was hurt this year: McGloin finished the game but they rolled out Connor Cook after a week or two,Not really, teams do that all of the time. It's not uncommon that the vet finishes the game and the young guy plays for weeks. The Texans kind of did it with Tom Savage (although he entered during a game).
You don't put the rookie in to finish a game. You give him a week to prepare. If he isn't ready you start the vet and try again the next week. This isn't uncommon at all in the NFL. The staff knew EJ sucked. He wasn't going to be the answer in an extended absence of TT. They would have rolled Cardale out and let him sink or swim.
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Cowboys
That would be my pick. They have all the pieces in place. May need a new HC, though.
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But wait, there's more! That linebacker they spent 3 picks on was suited for Rex's inside 3-4 scheme. Now he will be asked to play mike in a scheme where linebackers are expected to have good range. So even those picks on LB's could have to be done over.
But wait, there's even more: There is every chance that the guy they gave away two fourth round picks for probably would have been available anyway at the Bills' original 2d round slot.
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From what I have read from a variety of sources the Bills were eyeing Prescott last year. As usual they waited too long and instead took a known immature lineman from Ohio State with their third round selection, the spot they would have needed to take Prescott.
Not true. If Whaley had not given away the Bills' 4th round pick (something he apparently LOVES to do) to move up for Ragland, that pick could have been used on Prescott.
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The refs are unbelievably fired up for this second half. They've made their halftime adjustments and there is no way they will let the Falcons embarrass them like they did the first half.
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Zeke is great, but his impact pales in comparison to a good QB. That's just the way it is.Should have been Zeke.
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What hype are talking about? And he did actually win a few games in college, as you may recall...I think its sad that a project QB who will never amount to anything gets all this hype
Please tell us how you already know he "won't amount to anything." Was it the 4 quarters of preseason football, playing with the Bills' third stringers, or was it the one quarter of mop up duty in a game that the Bills had all but announced to the world they were trying to lose?
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Antonio Brown? Odell Beckham?Whaley's copying of the Julio trade up did not make any sense. Not because Watkins is not a great player when healthy. Watkins is great but does not have the size to ascend to the game changing physical force level of a Julio or Calvin Johnson. Only a great receiver who can also be a physically dominant force is worth that kind of value.
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My post from other thread on this:
I watched a good amount of ND games and Kizer did absolutely nothing in those games which made me come away thinking he would be a top NFL QB. Same with Miami and Kayaa. These guys may have the "tools" and "biggest upside" but to me, if you can't pass the initial visual test of watching them play then you should not even be in consideration for a first round pick. I will say this though in the ND games, I often found myself saying "why do they keep running the ball all game when it is going no where." Not sure why Kelly didn't open it up more for Kizer is it Kelly's fault or did he just not trust him? Finally, a huge red flag to me is any college QB with a completion % below 60 in their final year. Even more so if they showed regression which Kizer did. If you can't hit 60% in college how are you going to be effective in the NFL?
I'm really glad you are not making the selection on draft day.
The question the Bills should be asking themselves with each of these QBs in the draft is "Is he more ready than Cardale Jones?" and "Does he have as much upside as Cardale?" If the answer to either of these questions is "no", then what's the point? I'm not opposed to drafting another QB this year, but we need to find out if the guy we already have can play, and drafting another QB will reduce Cardale's opportunities. There is no sense drafting a QB every year if you're not going to give him a chance to develop and play and find out what you already have.
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Please, no. How many top TEs in the league right now were taken in round 1, much less the top third of round 1? I count zero. This is clearly a position where you can get great production in the lower rounds or even in UDFAs.
Whaley wants Cardale to be 2017 starter
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
You make a strong point regarding Whaley, but I wouldn't call playing Cardale "tanking", because I don't think the intent would be to lose games for purposes of improving draft position. I would call it rebuilding by giving a young QB a chance to develop, while at the same time unloading some unpalatable veteran contracts (not that I would put Watkins in that category, of course). I would not be in favor or unloading Watkins because receivers like him don't grow on trees and, because of his injury history, I don't think the Bills would get enough in return for him to make it worthwhile. And Cardale will need help if he's going to develop.