1billsfan

Well at least that's something we can agree on.

So you expect EJ Manuel to get it right this training camp or he should be cut, right? Is that your position? Think the Colts still think they were smart jumping the gun and trading their former 1st round "bust" Jerry Hughes?

There is no learning curve in professional sports that is harder than the learning curve to become an established NFL starting QB. EJ Manuel was a 2nd/3rd round developmental QB who was over drafted. So if everyone agrees to this notion, which I'm sure there's almost 100% consent on, then the expectations should indeed change. Why force a developmental/project QB to play just because he was over drafted? That doesn't seem like smart business to me. Yes they made a mistake in over drafting him, but why compound it? If he's ready great, if he doesn't win then it's great that he'll have the opportunity to learn from another seasoned NFL veteran. The Bills have a 1st round selected player that they just gave a huge multi million dollar contract to, who was declared a bust with the Colts, yet turned he turned it around to become one of the best at his positions in the league for the Bills. The learning curve for his position is light years easier than the QB position.

It's a shame that EJ Manuel isn't simply thought of as a project QB that we hope will pay off big time down the road. Fitzpatrick was in the league 6 years before he was expected to be "the man" in Cincy. Cassell was in the league 4 years before being expected to be "the man" in New England. Both players showed that with a long period of sitting and watching they were able to perform at a level that showed promise and that they belonged in the league. Manuel never had that long period of learning before he was expected to be "the man". I'm a Manuel supporter and I honestly won't be upset if he doesn't win the job because I think that even more time on the bench may be in his best interest. This is a new offense with new terminology and it will probably take him a year to get comfortable in it IMO. Another year (or a good portion of this season) on the bench should help him by watching another veteran QB's leadership style and it would also help him being older and more mature before he's expected to take on that roll. I hope Manuel plays lights out right away, but I suspect that won't be the case and it seems like Cassell will be a great transition QB to either EJ or the next QB we hope will be the long term answer.

This is silly logic and overly dramatic. How many Superbowl winning QBs won a national championship? EJ Manuel was drafted as a project QB and he's still in the "may or may not become a franchise QB" zone. Some QBs who weren't even projects take years to become productive QBs like Rogers and Brees. Do some fans really think he wouldn't take three years at least if he were ever to become anything? If the very average Joe Flacco can win a Superbowl riding a great defense and running game, then an improved EJ Manuel (if it ever does happen) can win one too.

I agree. I'm an EJ supporter but I won't be mad if he loses in the QB competition. Unlike Orton, I think that Cassell is going to help in Manuel's development. If Manuel proves he's not ready to take over the team then that doesn't necessarily mean for the entire season. Maybe eight games in, Cassell is not playing well and Manuel starts looking like he's ready to roll in Roman's system. Manuel is still a project and Cassell is a known backup QB who's capable of starting now and then. Let the best QB win and then let the season play out.

Well I approve, that's a good skill to have. I think that either way it goes the Bills are not going to have a drama situation. If Cassell wins, then Manuel knows he'll probably get his shot again at some point during the season. If EJ wins, Cassell seems like a really nice guy who actually gave help to Bridgewater and will provide the same guidance to Manuel.

Where did you get that from? I just went to Pro Football Reference and EJ has a better QB rating and completion percentage on 10+ yards to go throws.

I think that people confuse support for Manuel with thinking he's going to be good enough to be a long time solution. The support is only that he's not as bad as he's been made out to be. The haters make it seem like he was a disaster which is simply not true. Like you, I think that there is hope in the form of a changing of the coaches from worst in the league to a guy who was the OC in the Superbowl a couple of years ago and he got there with a starter who has similar athletic traits as Manuel. I would imagine that Manuel will get better (how much, who knows) just on the change of coaches alone.

Cassell was a Chief for Ponders first two years as a Viking. I think some EJ haters here just don't know how bad Cassell is. However, since he isn't Manuel they are perfectly fine with him starting. According to recent stats... Cassell's average stats last two years: 58% completion 170 YPG 72 rating 11 YPC Cassell's last 14 games started: 14 TDs (all passing) Manuel's average stats last two years: 58% completion 172 YPG 78 rating 11 YPC Manuel's last 14 games started (career starts): 19 TDs (16 passing/3 rushing) Cassell will not prove he's good enough to be the starter over Manuel. IMO Cassell is plan B if Manuel melts down again. I'm not saying that Manuel is good or will be good. I'm just pointing out recent stats that are relevant to how each player is right now and not how they were 5 years ago.

I'd be a little shocked if Manuel couldn't beat out Cassell. I think both players are the same in terms of throwing ability. Cassell wins in the leadership department because like Orton, he can carry himself as the "boss" in the huddle. That's something Manuel seriously needs to work on (no more buddy buddy EJ as Spiller eluded to). However, Manuel is a QB who could extend plays and run for TDs close to the goal line. I think that extending plays is a key element that Roman would like on passing plays because those situations are where big down the field plays can happen and it's something that can't be be game planned by a defense. If they are tied then you've got to go with the unknown in Manuel. Cassell is a known backup only QB.

They just took Johnny Manziel in the first round last year. There is no way the Browns give up on him after just two NFL starts and in the process use two first rounds picks to get a project QB like Mariota who will take a couple of years to develop. NFL teams don't give up on a 1st round QB after two starts. I've never seen it happen. I'm not going to believe in any of these trade rumors other than the Eagles trade rumors. Possibly the Rams.

From what I've read and heard, Mariota is a talented QB but a project. Specifically, he knows college spread hurry up offense only. He never called a huddle or went behind center. Teams may say they have interest, but what NFL team is going to sign on to a 2 year project? Realizing that NFL coaching and front offices are on hyper speed for showing results? Coaches and GMs don't have four year deals and are afforded the time to show results three years down the line. That is today's NFL. The only team I see that is comfortable with Mariota is the obvious team, the Eagles. Maybe Fisher with the Rams is comfortable in his job and would be afforded the three year time frame to develop him. But I just don't buy into the idea that NFL teams picking high in the draft are wanting Mariota. The media may report it, but I'm not buying it. Unless you are Chip Kelly and are all in on using the Oregon offense in the NFL, I'd seriously question betting on Mariota developing quickly enough to save your job.

I think that a deal for Mariota is in the works with the Jets. The Jets don't want him and they are probably wanting Nick Foles as part of the trade (along with picks) with the Eagles. The price to go up to the Titans would be ridiculous and there's no other team that wants Mariota. Maybe the Rams would be in play? But they don't have a Foles to trade, they have Bradford and the Jets don't want that contract.

The Bills are picking #50 and Gordon and Gurley will be long gone by then. The other RBs may be good, but just try picking the guy who's going to be a top 3 workhorse RB from the RBs left over. The Bills getting McCoy just settled more than half of their offense next season and beyond. For a team with the NFL's top defense, that is huge and definitely worth the cap hit. It just is. As for him being too old, that's not true unless you are looking at him beyond three years from now. McCoy is in the second half of the prime of his career. I don't want Hughes to leave, but the Bills will offer him a fair contract and that's all you can ask of them.

Since the Bills players are pleading both sides to make a deal I think that there is a number that is so high that the Bills players will think was a generous number and if Hughes decides to go for the extra 2 million then they would not be upset with the organization "low balling" him. I think that number is around 10 million a year. So it will come down to whether Hughes wants the extra 2 million a year (yes, I think a team will offer him 12 million a year) or if he can live with 2 million less and enjoy the fun ride with his buddies on a monster defense guided by Rex. If I were Hughes I think that my name recognition would shoot so far up the next 5 years that the money he's losing out on will eventually be recouped in endorsements and post football job opportunities. I definitely think he'd earn his 10 million a year contract but I'm fine if the Bills stop at that number.

That was yesterday, and I said that I would keep Manuel even if he looked bad in training camp because that's what a project requires IMO, three full seasons before you give up. That's what I would do. My post your replying to was me questioning the validity of this coach's comments. It's not me saying that I would cut him, it's me asking why is he's still on the team if they don't think he's any good. Maybe the answer is because he's a project, but that "they don't think he's any good" comment was pretty cut and dry. It doesn't make sense to keep him on the team if they don't think he's any good. Saying that and not adding a qualifier like the don't think he's good, but they're giving him one more shot because he was a raw prospect coming into the league.

So this offensive coach was on the Marrone staff and stayed on with the Rex staff? That's what it sounds like. As for EJ Manuel, if the current staff doesn't think he's any good then why is he still on the team? That comment just doesn't ring true because Rex has no ties to him yet he's still on the team.

Want to ensure a young NFL QB doesn't develop? Tell him not to ever turn the ball over. Marrone was such an idiot. Here's hoping the looseness of Rex rubs off on Manuel and the offense and they play without fear.

I respect your opinion too. Unlike the classic QB fights here, this is going to be a weird year for QB debates.

I wouldn't cut Manuel this year even if he was a distant third behind Cassel and the new guy. The reason why is because he was drafted as a project QB. That was the plan the Bills organization signed up for. His salary is small so there is no reason to not give him three full seasons of development. I think that many fans here completely ignore the "project" aspect of Manuel. I heard stories that he played awful in training camp, yet he did put in two good performances on the road in Chicago and at home against Miami to open last season in games that actually counted. Then he looked bad in back to back games. This is what a "project" looks like. As for your bringing up over and over wanting him to be cut if he plays badly in training camp. I'm sorry, but I think it would be foolish to do that. Today's QBs don't get near the same amount of practice time that they used to due to the new player union contract. Also, this is a new system for Manuel. So he very well may look bad again this training camp. I say so what. Stick with the plan and give him the full 2015 season in the new system. I'm not saying that I don't want the Bills to draft a QB at #50. Even as a Manuel supporter I'm fine if they do that. But I'm sticking with Manuel for three full seasons regardless of how he looks in training camp. Because that is what a project requires. A three year commitment. My support for him ends this year, but I do have one more year of patience and would keep him on this team.

I just heard one of the sports talk hosts on 97.5 The Fanatic (Philly) say that he has a very close source that McCoy is not going to block the trade. The host didn't make a big thing about it, but he was just very sure about his source, mentioned it when the topic came up, and then they moved on to talk about something else.

I think you are missing the point of the trade. The Bills are positioned for yearly visits to the playoffs the next three years. They went and got the sure thing, not the maybe. Drafted RBs are very hit or miss. There's no need to even list the big names that went bust. Also, they were no in position to even get one of the two "sure thing" RBs in Gordon and Gurley. So the Bills decided to not roll the dice on the draft with whichever RB was left at #50 and instead got one of the top three stud RBs in the NFL. This trade instantly made the Bills a top 5 AFC team even with EJ Manuel as our starting QB IMO.

The goal is to win a Superbowl, not who has the best looking QB stats. If EJ does have that "clutch" gene then this team does have a possibility of winning a Superbowl with him as long as they would have a great defense and running game to support him. Because he simply isn't one of those BIG numbers QBs. I have no idea what he's going to do this year, but I can see the possibilities. Geez, remember who the QB was the Giants beat us with? I think that's the team we have and EJ may be just the right fit if he can consistently perform in the clutch.

I think that people forget major progress was derailed by huge Chandler and Johnson fumbles in the Toronto game in his first season. The Bills were 4-7 heading into that game against the Falcons and on two occasions deep into the game, EJ threw a clutch pass to Johnson which he fumbled and then Manuel came back and threw a clutch pass to Chandler which he fumbled. If either one of them hold onto the ball the Bills win that game and go 5-7 and they probably go on to beat the Bucs, Jags and Dolphins to get to 8-7 heading into the Patriots game. I think people forget that Manuel did play well in the Bears and Dolphin games to open the season this year. Was Manuel ever going to be a QB that takes over an offense? Um no. Because that's what the Bills needed in the Charger and Texan game. The Bills running game went in the tank after that Dolphin game. People can call them excuses, but I think that Manuel should have never been expected to be an Aaron Rogers or a Steve Young type. He's a guy who may be in the Joe Flacco mold of being a good enough when you have a great defense and running game. Is EJ as accurate as Flacco? No, but Flacco doesn't have the athleticism of Manuel either. However, Manuel has shown the ability of being clutch in close games just like a Joe Flacco. Besides his clutch play in a few of his NFL games, he had also won 4 college bowl games and was the MVP in the Senior Bowl, those are clutch situations he came through in. I suggest everyone go and look at Flacco's stats his rookie season and compare them to Manuel's total stats of 14 games. There is not much difference. Don't write him off so fast Bills fans. Let's see what he brings this year under Roman.