UKBillFan

Point three - do the Bills have a structure in place which gets the best out of Josh?

It's more a case of making an example of Josh - you're not listening so sit down and think on it - rather than expecting anything good out of Kyle, to be honest. The question is how would Josh deal with public humiliation from the coaching team? Will it help him reset or just make him more nervous and desperate? Again, the coaches have to make the right choice.

I said after the game if the same thing happens against the Raiders, then Kyle Allen needs to come in for a series of two. See if extreme measures can work. Trouble is, if Kyle has a nightmare, it just re-enforces Josh as the best option, which we know is the case any way. Something needs to give, and it's up to the coaches to make the right choice. Does he need an arm round the shoulder? A boot up the backside? A good cop/bad cop routine? If they don't get it right then Miami will have no competition in the AFCE.

Big question - what's the solution?

Just an example of the stupidity and ill discipline which permeates through this team.

Daboll, or the combination of Daboll and Dorsey, certainly seemed to have a better grip on him then there seems to be now. I think there's an OC, QC coach or combination out there who can rein (reign? I don't know) him in. It's about lucking out an appointing the right person or people. For now, I do want to see Dorsey on the touchline for the Raiders game.

Said exactly the same last night. Call him out and show that enough is enough.

Trouble is is McDermott is defense. He can tell Josh to play smarter but not explain the intricacies of each series. Plus, if Josh is on the sidelines then, more often that not, McDermott will be playcalling. It needs to be Dorsey.

Think it was GunnerBill who said Daboll used to be in the booth after year one, but Dorsey was on the touchline with Josh. I do think he perhaps needs to move back down with him, give it a go and see what happens.

True, he definitely trusted Dorsey before. Maybe he still does. I do think the protect yourself/don't run mantra has screwed him over somewhat. Second half yesterday, in particular, he seemed to continually make the wrong decision.

Coaches can help with the mental state of players. Josh seems to be spiralling and everyone appears clueless as to how to resolve it. It's not that he can't do it - look at the majority of 2021 and start of 2022.

Just said on another thread, if they're incapable of reigning Josh in then there needs to be a change. Do I think he could be reigned in? Yes, with the right approach.

That means the Bills need to get someone in who can reign him in. McDermott, Dorsey and J Brady all seem incapable.

Josh says the same thing too. Like he's on auto pilot.

First half was fine. If he had continued playing that way in the second half the Bills would have won at a canter.

Jason Whitlock? He also claimed Diggs wanted out of Buffalo as there wasn't enough strip joints.

I think it's a mix of that and he has little confidence in the rest of the offense, Diggs excluded. He doesn't trust the O Line to hold. He doesn't trust Davis to run the right route (him and Diggs were in the same place on a play yesterday - again - for some unknown reason), he doesn't trust Knox to hold on to the ball, he doesn't trust the run game. Part of me wonders if he subconsciously doesn't trust Dorsey. So he fires long, particularly at Diggs, and hopes they can conjure up magic to keep the offense ticking over.

The most annoying thing is, he had. For the most part from week three of 2021 to half time of week eight 2022, he looked a bona fide elite quarterback (ok, minus the disasters against the Jaguars and the Colts). Then something clicked and I'm not sure what it was. Was it down to the elbow injury - the start of the instructions to protect himself? Run less? Maybe. I think that might be where it all started, which had led to him questioning the approach to take. Then, when looking to throw, he was behind a horrific O Line last year, which he still doesn't trust despite it doing ok yesterday. And he relies on trusting his eyes when they seem to be deceiving him. It becomes a perfect storm.

Not nothing to do with them, but he needs to take personal responsibility too - and show it in action rather than just via words.

So what happened at half time of the Packers game last year? Because that's where the regression started. I agree, the coaches should take some responsibility but not all. Josh says the right things but doesn't execute them on the field of play.

I think most contenders now have an OC as Head Coach. There are two brains in the room to look at any issues there may be on the offensive side of the ball, with ability to bounce ideas off each other and perhaps be good cop/bad cop with the quarterback where needed. I imagine with Daboll's presence this mattered slightly less, as he had Dorsey to work with. Who's the second command for the offensive side of the ball now? Presumably Joe Brady. But he has very little experience of the role compared to Dorsey when he held that position. But then every time one of us fans say this needs to change to make thing better, the Bills seem to try implementing it and instead make things worse. I can't help but feel part of Josh's issues, which started less year, was the "protect yourself" mantra which now sees him caught in two minds, or maybe desperate to get things done in one play to get off the field. Logically, bringing in a OC Head Coach should be the next step but I have no confidence it would solve things.

1. The offensive line was fine last night 2. Josh maybe. Playcalling, maybe not. I have concerns about Dorsey and Josh being emotionally beneficial towards one another, but on each of the interceptions he had plays available he did not take. Or the series before half time, he under throwed to Cook - nothing to do with playcalling 3. Maybe unsuitable rather than poor

He's said it before, more than once. Nothing changes. Maybe he needed a game where it purely was all on him, rather than having mitigation. We'll see.

You may be right overall but last night wasn't on McDermott. It was solely and purely on Josh and, after seeing this kind of approach from him time and again despite saying he's learned his lesson in countless press conferences, something has to give. Coaches cannot do everything - the players have to take personal responsibility too.

The only way it happens is if, for some reason, Josh turns and says he can't work with Dorsey anymore.