Ghost_002!

To your first sentence. In general, I have always try to back up anything I have said if i was challenged. I was replying to someone claiming I do not know anything outside of my patriots fandom. And yes a coach or person could say one thing and mean the other but since you, nor I or anyone else has any facts on what Gibbs truly meant if he did mean something different. Then wouldn't for the sake of the discussion you take him for his word(s)? I will go ahead and leave this thread. I wanted to reply to whoever replied to me, but not to derail the thread.

Come on... You think EVERY player will like their stay on every team they been on? You think there aren't players who didn't like playing for Bills? fortunately for the Pats it ain't enough to stop players from coming here and the opt outs had nothing to do with the culture. Those opt outs had to deal with the health of their unborn babies and kids....and the opt outs all have confirmed to be coming back. Tom and BB had their up and downs not denying that...if BB gave Tom close to the money he got in Tampa Bay, you think he would stay? BBs coaching tree or the lack there of has nothing to do with BB and more to do with those coaches trying to be BB., let's also not forget B.Flores and Bill O'Brien (coaching wise) being on that tree (as i said before. Bill O'Brien the GM got Bill O'Brien the coach fired) he had a decent win/loss record with the Texans and had won playoff games....where he messed up was getting rid of Hopkins and it all went down from there.. and about BB....he is old school similar to Bill Parcells and nobody complains about Bill Parcells.....it's football man. They do not take any BS and yes their success helps and they are highly respected around the league....of course not everyone is going to agree but overall they have been successful and respected by their peers...thats all that matters.

Yup teams have indicated it BUT NOTHING WAS EVER PROVEN...and when you say that....fans do not want to believe it because fiction is so much better than reality....i can recall Mike Tomlin screaming about his headset not working after a lost instead of the simple fact he kept using the same damn defense over the years making it so easy for Brady and BB to decipher what they were seeing And this is the same Mike Tomlin who "interfered" with a Raven's returner about to score by stepping on the field and tackling him., but he wants to scream about "interface"? funny how it's viewed when you aren't on the other side of things... And this dirty bag organizations according to the fans..but players still play for them, and still would come to NE....

For your first sentence...i really didn't put much stake into it...and in bold is why i said I do not deal with conspiracy theories for this very same reason...i like to deal with facts and not what some want speculate. There are 32 owners who Roger Goodell has to deal with but to fans who hate the patriots he is working for them solely..yea just that line of thinking i don't wanna waste my time debating with.

Never denied "spy gate" what i am talking about is the details that people drum up and speculate what exactly the patriots were doing ...also referencing the poster's comments about "the fishy stuff" that goes on in Boston.

Clearly you don't know what I know . passage from one of your links As for Gibbs, he didn't have a problem with Belichick's tactics, The two coaches shook hands after the game, although they certainly didn't make a lot of small talk. "No, I have no problem with anything that they did," Gibbs said. "Nothing, no problems from me." If you missed my pervious post...i said most coaches and players do not complain about that crap...just as most players and coaches do not "tank" I have seen Bill Parcells (for example) scruff at anyone bring up "running up the score" on another team

it's nonsense to think most coaches and players care about "running up the score" . Most of them would look at you like it's our job to stop the other team from scoring especially old school coaches. This ain't baseball where some "unwritten" rule was violated. What Owen's did yes i can see that as being disrespectful and players taken pride in who they are and who they play for, i expect most to say It's our job to stop them from scoring....now IMO if a team is doing late in a game for the sole purpose to break a record, to me that is something to gripe about. if the bills beat the pats 50-10 or some ridiculous score. That's on the patriots defense.

Again what is "running up the score " to a bunch of professionals..grown a** men. Playing football. Do fans complain when some D1 college beats a lesser opp by 50 or 60 points .

Well seeing that they have reduced kickoff returns..I guess your wish will have to be done another way. Yea i don't deal with conspiracy theories...

Ha ha You know..my first memory of football...my introduction to it.. The Pats and the Bears in the SB..and you know how that turned out.

lol....it's only fair I see..ha ha

You know the bills whooped the pats a** before right. Bledsoe first game against the pats w the bills... And as usual fans getting exactly what or how spygate transpired wrong..but I am not going to get Into it anymore its over, get over it..every team bends the rules and every fan complains about the refs...so ehh

Never against you guys wanting the win..just never understood the payback part. But *🍻* for wanting a good ole a** whooping...I respect that. Ha ha

If you were the jets..I could see it, but I don't remember any ill will toward the bills or the pats "running up" the score against the bills... Plus what is "running up the score" i never understood that when fans (not directed at you) complain about that, they are professionals. Your job is to stop the other team from scoring..

Better do something in the playoffs...

I like how some bills fans scream "payback" for all the years they did us.. "Payback!?" cause for all those years your GM and coaches could not build a team to compete....somehow that's NEs fault?

His stats being in the pack with the wins Is what puts him over... He doesn't need to blow away the competition cause the SB wins do that. Wins>>>stats

Clearly Beasley made the better choice because i would honestly hate to see him have to play with Cam Newton like this. I think BB tagged him to either try to make a deal with him or keep him away from the JETS. I am not sure. Burhead i think played his last game in NE unless he is willing to play for crumbs...which is possible, I also see White returning, we do not have another 3rd down back right now as effective as White and he seems like one of those Pats for life type of guys. I do not think or heard of anyone else from the pats line walking or being let go. Just Thuney has been the only one the media and fans constantly speak about. and yes, the Patriots are definitely in a rebuild no mistaken that. I am just confident enough that this process will not take too long.

Good sh*t Buffalo. You legit kicked Pittburgh's a** on both sides of the ball. The Bills were everywhere on defense and they turned it around on offense like what true SB teams do. From a Pats fan...."why not you guys in the SB!?" You guys are SB contenders.

I can say most likely Thuney will walk. I dont think BB is going to pay Thuney, and Gilmore. Expect both to walk. And FAs will still want to come to NE. BB is respected around the league by players and coaches. If they feel the money is right or the situation in NE is right for them I do not see why players wouldn't come. Ex of that: Newton was having a convo for his comback show with OBJ and a couple other players (i forgot who) and he said he doesn't know how him and BB were going to mesh And it was OBJ who told him the best place for him to go and get the coaching he needs was in NE w BB...OBJ still wants to play and NE..Newton now talks glowingly about BB and calls him a football whisperer.... Side note: Kind of has nothing to do w this reply. Did Bills fans know why Cole Beasley chose Buffalo over NE? I can't remember exactly, i think he said he just wanted to go some place different and not follow the same trend at that time...

? So Miami got lucky using Ryan Fitzpatrick being just one game out of the AFC east? Chiefs got lucky with Alex Smith before Mahomes, Colts are doing ok after Luck retired. (Note i said ok...not implying they are SB contenders) you can look around the league and see teams with feasible QBs that the patriots can use to be competitive Again they are 6-7 right now with sh*tting QB play....a "bridge QB" could keep that competitive enough. Its not hard to see that. Who cares what his "story" was....Bill O'Brien the GM got Bill.O'Brien the coach fired. How long ago Cleveland was for BB...you are just going to ignore everything else that tells you he is a great coach. This year alone spells that out to anyone looking objectively.

Oh love the grammar and spelling Nazis on the internet. Thanks, you're cool.

McDaniels...I can also say this. That fool took Tebow to be his QB....that is all anyone needs to know... Buyers remorse on McDaniels.. Yea Olszewski, he is one of BB "outta no where" picks. Former D2 CB who played special teams as well.. converted to WR...Almost cut last year (Practice squad last year) Worked hard to be able to play at wide out,...stay on the team as a special teamer...cuz BB loves special teams...idk if he will make a career out of being a punt returner. there are times he fields punts that he shouldn't. He is similar to Edelman when he first started in that position in terms off keeps running into big hits and for no reason. And just to understand how training camp on the offense side went for the pats... Per the media he was the only one that looked like an NFL receiver. If that meant anything to anyone asking at that time..

This team is 6-7 with a sh*t QB. They could of had or could picked up a "bridge" QB and be a threat for the playoffs because their coaching staff is that strong. BB has proven that time and time again. He gets the most out of his players often, so they could bring in a Jimmy Grapolo (example) and be a threat for this division and maybe the AFC next year, and i am just going off their record now and losing very close games to the bills and seahawks. Doesn't matter why BIll O'Brien got fired, look at his record. He to date has won more playoff games than your coach. That says something and how ultimately Flores is TBD but as of right now in just 2 years they are a threat to win this division, that says something as well, plus Flores was very instrumental in the pats last SB run shutting down the rams..... right now he is a good coach. Please show me where Saban said his time in Cleveland was the worse of his life and it's because of BB. Because I do not know if you know this, but BB and Saban and great friends they just did a documentary together and yup he didnt do well in Miami and is a still a great college coach that doesn't need to come back to the NFL to prove anything...Harbaugh was better in the pros than he is in college at michgan... and again, how long ago was the cleveland era? i must of missed all those great coaches who came after BB in Cleveland.

For N'Keal it could be a lot things, on the pats fan forum there is a thread dedicated to N'Keal productions or lack there of. He was thrown into the situation with Brady and Brady stop playing nice with young receivers years ago, so that could of hinder his development, BB absolute stinks at noticing wide talent, he whiffed on all those receivers in the draft last year and in 2018..could of had Deebo Samuel and/or AJ Brown, but NOPE! This year its now Cam Newton throwing him the ball and we all can see how bad he is at that, and N'Keal has been injurie a lot as well....in that Harry thread most of us Pats fans think he is a bust. The other wide outs now; Meyers and Damiere Byrd are ok, they aren't bad. They do get open and Cam misses them..i would say they would be 3rd or 4th option on another team who has a solid wide receiving core. BB always thinks he can find that hidden gem in some of the most awkward places...d2, and d3 colleges.....like sometimes just buy into the hype man. and yea for most of the coaches who left to be head coach in other places, yeah they tried too hard to be him and it just doesn't work for them. I have always like Flores and I did like Billy O'Brien everyone else i can careless and I personally think any team that gives Josh McDaniel's another chance would be a complete fool........i do not think he will be a very good coach in the NFL.