Bob in STL

For most of his career John Fina was good. I agree that he lost a step in last two years and it took a toll on his play. The Bills should have moved Fina to Guard. The same thing happend to Joe Devli. He was moved to guard when he lost a step and could not play tackle. The difference is that Develin finished his career with Marv, and Fina with Gregggggg, who was clueless about offense.

Ostoski is another guy who I think geta bad rap. He is not a star but heck he did OK. I would take Ostroski any day over Teague. Ostroski was a classic over acheiver. He was not even drafted and yet he started at several positions

Byron Franklin was not a bad player at all. He took time to develop and sat on the bench behind some good WRs in Jerry Butler and Company. He had some good years, some injuries, and then he played for another team (Atlanta I think). No way was he in the category of a Bucky Brooks or some of the others on your list.

My comments, I assume you are talking about players that started for awhile: RB - A. Smith had some good years, especially at NE. Bryson and Linton were weak as starters. WR - Quinn Early was decent, but we got him at the twilight of his career. FB - I liked Garner - he was a mean sob! OT - John Fina was a good football player. I never understood the hostility towards him? He slipped his last few years at LT but if we had more talent at OT we could have moved him to OG like they did for Joe Devlin and he would have been fine. OT's to add - Jerry Crafts, Chris Farris -- both were putrid. OG - Lacina had a good career with the Vikings. He was better than the crap we replaced him with. Add M. Sullivan to your list of losers. LB - Keith Newman was decent. Eddie Robinson was over the hill as a Bill. He had a strong career in Houston. Brandon Spoon was a weak player at linebacker. CB - Kenny Irvin was decent, he did not suck at all. ST Bruce DeHaven was an excellent ST coach! I think this is your biggets error. Wade Phillips ruined the special teams and Wade used Bruce as a scapegoat. DeHaven is still in the league and his group is always at the top. HC - Mularkey was worse than Williams. He had less talent and his teams did not quit on him (and I don't care for Williams by any means).

TC - I agree that we are on the upswing but lets face it, we have an unproven QB, many unproven players on the OL, and not much experience at DT. I am not sure was have it in the trenches to run and stop the run. I watch the games at Hot Shots in St. Charles. I hope to see you there. - Bob

The question was the past 15 years. So 1990-91 is the cutoff. Otherwise you add Fergy, Cribbs, Butler, and a more.

Rating by value to the team and on field performance: RB - - I would put Kenny Davis ahead of Henry and McGahee (so far) FB - I think Garner and Mueller desrve mention Ot - I put Fina and Parker ahead of Jennings (any day of the week) OG - I put Richter first, then Brown, then Davis/Parker P- Kidd and Mohr werr good and deserve mention SS - Add Schulz

Afer reading this thread, and particularly the names of the LTs listed , it is impossible for me to answer as to whether he is "above average" or even average. If he was so clearly above average then I seriously doubt would the Bills have been able to get him as a low tier free agent signing. That is not to say he doesn't have good upside either. One thing we know is that the Bills did not seriously pursue any other potential free agent tackles other than talking to Fabini. They drafted developmental tackles. Maybe they are content with Gandy and they think he is above average? Most likely he is an adequate (average) player and they will be looking at LTs again in the next off season, having chosen to address the defense first.

.... so you actually think that "whomever is inheriting the team", assuming there is such a person, would be reading this forum and would be willing to share their thoughts with you? <play Twilight Zone theme here>

Hmmm interesting. I am always leary of the " I'm not appreciated" types but the guy is far better than any tackle we have had since Wolford and Ballard. Thanks for the update.

Very true, and I distinctly remember the "experts" on ESPN saying that the pick was a reach, he would have been there at 20. Same bunk they said about the Whitner pick this year. The Jones pick is a great example of why you should not put much stock into the talking heads on ESPN and their vision of what is proper value in the draft. I would love to see the Bills get Jones next season as a free agent but I expect that Cinci will lock up their franchise LT.

It is. I'll take motivation, prepartion, hard work and character. "Talent" is often mistaken for these traits.

Your correct but I recall that Mike-Mayer kick was not at the end of the game for the win. The drama of the Dempsey miss added to my pain.

I'll give you two and both are against Miami. 1 -- Last year - I will always remember Moulds fighting with the coaches and quitting. I hurt to blow such a big lead. 2 -- Back in about 1978 or 79. Tom Dempsey missed a chip shot with seconds left in the 4th quarter. I was standing in the driving rain, watching, thinking that the "0 for the 1970's" losing streak was over. I expected the fans would take the field and tear down the goal posts. When he missed it hurt like hell.

Run and stop the run. You call the OL vastly improved .... true, but from an extremely poor level to start with. I like the changes that have been made. I would love to see a solid starting OT added to the roster. I'm not conviced we have one. Adding Royal will help. We lack experience and depth at DT. After Triplett, a backup in Indy, we have Tim Anderson and two rookies. Stopping the run starts here. Hmmmm. Add to that a big question mark at QB and a rookie most likely starting at SS. I am more hopeful than optimistic at this point. I look forward to seeing the team develop and and hopeful for a strong finish.

Good info. Any way you look at it, we need to improve the talent on both lines and we need to develop a QB. If Losman, Peters, Preston, Fowler, Williams and McCargo become solid starters we are in good shape.

I thought Ostroski was a decent player and very tough. He had a long career for a guy who started on the practice squad. He never did anything to warrent hall of shame consideration. Spriggs was an underachiever.

Brian Bosworth and Tony Manderich - big egos and bigger busts.

The Thurman snub is simply residual from the Bills going 0-4 in the SB. His stats stand by themselves and he was the best football player in the group that goes in this year. Had Norwood made that kick, Thurman gets the MVP and the ring and voila ... he is in on the first ballot. Many of the writers just seem to be missing the point as they dangle the careers of great players with their votes.

I think they were both excellent QBs for a time. Neither had sustained sucess and neither are HoF caliber in my opinion. There are lots of QBs with impressive stats that are not in the HoF. To me Drew and Vinny are no better than Joe Ferguson, Jim Hart, or even a Daryl Lamonica --- they are one tier below HoF.

Talmistry.

My changes are mostly with the OL and DL and I think the Pats are better almost to the man: LG- Reyes < Mankins (this guy is a future Pro Bowler) RT- Peters < Gorin (Peters has more upside but not there yet) LE- Denney < Warren DT- Wilfork > Triplett (Wolfork can dominate) RE- Schobel < Seymour (Seymour is an impact player) ROLB- Spikes > Colvin (maybe - depends on injury recovery)

If only it were that easy. Being a top 10 pick does not always translate into a Pro Bowl player and some of the Pro Bowl selections have more to do with hype and popularity rather than on the field play. Daryl Talley had a hard time making the Pro Bowl. If Whitner plays with the impact of Talley then I am happy. If he is a leader, a strong starter, and a play maker you would expect the pro-bowls to come. What might be more relevant is how good is he compared to other alleged top 10 prospects that we passed on such as Lienart, Ngata, and and Bunkley.

Agreed. Many of Butlers players that were purge by TD for salary cap reasons went to other teams and were productive. Can we say that abpout TDs players?

I totally agree. Lets be good like the Bills of the 90's. When Gregg-o came to town he and TD had the attitude that Buffalo fans didn't know what good football was. The Bills of the 90's owned the Oilers and the Steelers. All of a sudden we are playing their style. I hated that.