CincyBillsFan

I don't know about the rest of you but I've lost all patience in so called Bills fans like "Ricco". IMO these kinds of hypothetical situations prove that they're idiots. There's only one QB in the NFL I would even think of trading straight up for Allen and that's Mahomes. And even there I would likely stick with Allen. And in addition to your point on the weather Watson this year probably faced soft prevent defenses on almost half his snaps. His team trailed by two or more scores in the 2nd half frequently. The only games where Allen actually faced an extended period of prevent defense was against KC in the championship game. Even against TN the Bills fumble on the KO return robbed Allen of facing the Titans prevent. There are a small minority of dead enders who will never accept that Allen is a great QB. They predicted doom in 2018 and they will never admit that they were wrong. But they know they'll look like even bigger fools if they attack Allen's play straight on so they slink around in the shadows throwing out hypothetical nonsense like the Bills should consider trading Allen for Watson. Spot on! Allen went 5 - 6 as a rookie QB with a dumpster fire of an offense.

I take the opposite view of many here and IMO this is a big deal. I'm very surprised Mahomes was so careless in saying what he said. There are ways to say what he said that doesn't point the finger of blame at his O Line & WR group. And it starts with giving the Buccaneers credit for causing problems for both those units. For what it's worth on the Dan Patrick show Greg Cosell thought Mahomes comments about the WR's were very strange. He also noted that Mahomes got happy feet and was bailing on the pocket way to soon.

Good catch it was supposed to be 117 attempts.

I just posted this on another thread but it fits here to. I ran the numbers for Mahomes and Allen during this seasons playoff runs and they're interesting: QB playoff stats: Josh Allen Passing: 77 - 120 - 817 yards - 5 TD's - 1 INT - 64% completion Rushing: 25 - 145 - 1 TD Total Yards = 962 Total TD's = 6 Total TO's = 1 Playoff Record = 2 - 1 Patric Mahomes Passing: 76 - 1117 - 850 yards - 4 TD's - 2 INT - 65% completion Rushing: 13 - 52 yards - 1 TD Total Yards = 902 Total TD's = 5 Total TO's = 2 Playoff Record = 2 - 1 Seems to me this answers the question of this thread, no? Or am I missing something in posting these stats? Is it to simplistic?

About those QB playoff stats: Josh Allen Passing: 77 - 120 - 817 yards - 5 TD's - 1 INT - 64% completion Rushing: 25 - 145 - 1 TD Total Yards = 962 Total TD's = 6 Total TO's = 1 Playoff Record = 2 - 1 Patric Mahomes: Passing: 76 - 1117 - 850 yards - 4 TD's - 2 INT - 65% completion Rushing: 13 - 52 yards - 1 TD Total Yards = 902 Total TD's = 5 Total TO's = 2 Playoff Record = 2 - 1 Looks about the same to me. In fact I would give Allen the edge. Am I missing something?

I'll never feel sorry for a guy whose team loses a Super Bowl. I didn't expect a pity party when the Bills were losing four in a row and I won't throw one now. In fact I long for those types of problems again! BTW I like Zerv, he was on the Broncos boards defending Allen a coupe of months ago.

This is a great point and observation. Yesterday both KC & TB committed to taking away the WR's and to a large extent they succeeded. TE's led both the Chiefs & Bucs in caches and receiving yards. Of the 4 TB TD's 3 were scored by a TE/RB. Allen and the Bills offense succeeded brilliantly for most of the year in spite of having a critical weakness at TE & RB. This indicates to me that if the Bills can bring their TE play and running game up to average they will have a great shot to win the Super Bowl next year. I think with a normal off season Knox will improve further and lift the TE play to at least average. That leaves RB as a glaring need IMO.

They were better then our RB's particularly CEH. And at TE Mahomes not only has the best TE's in Kelsy his TE is also one of the best offensive players at any position in the NFL. IMO this is only partly true. Our RB's don't often make tackler's miss or run them over. Yesterday Fournate and CEH both had a lot of yards after contact or when the blocking broke down.

Did anyone else notice how the WR's on both teams played only a minor role tonight? The leading receivers for both teams were TE's - Gronk & Kelsey. The leading total yards from scrimmage guy was a RB. IMO the fact the Bills won 15 games; had one of the top 3 offenses in the NFL and that Allen had an MVP caliber year without effective RB or TE play is amazing. It's clear what the Bills have to do - at least on offense.

The fact is that the refs are enforcing the rules like they were enforced the entire season and KC is rightly getting called. The real issue is why were the rules NOT enforced two weeks ago. As for Brady I stopped hating on the guy years ago and I'm certainly not going to hate on him when he plays for a team in another conference. The reality is we are watching something extraordinary - a 43 year old QB on his way to winning a Super Bowl MVP. Think about that for a moment.

I would switch Allen and Watson based on the fact that probably a third of Watson's passing yards/TD's came against prevent defenses. I wonder if that even enters the assessment of PFF but IMO it's a huge factor as we've all seen how many garbage time yards & TD's a QB can pile up down by three scores. In fact a close examination of Stafford would probably show that his career numbers also have benefited greatly by the Lions having a bad defense.

It's possible for multiple things to be true at the same time: * Mahomes is the best QB in the NFL. * Allen is closing the gap fast and may catch Mahomes next season. * The Chiefs have more talent then the Bills. * If the Chiefs continue to be the better team then even if Allen catches up to Mahomes KC will go further in the playoffs.

The idea that Allen was "meh" at Wyoming depends on you having only looked at his stats and not watched any Wyoming games. Years ago I stumbled on an Allen/Wyoming game late on Saturday night (it was 2 years before he declared for the NFL) and couldn't believe what I was seeing the WY QB do. Some of his throws and sack escapes defied logic to my football mind. I started making it a point to catch Allen's games after that night and the first thing you came to understand was that Allen's stats meant nothing. He was doing things that no other QB in college football was doing. And I watch a lot of college football. I remember thinking wouldn't it be nice if the Bills drafted this guy in the 4th round in a couple of years as an experiment. Little did I know. Needless to say I was thrilled when the Bills made him their pick. I wasn't sure if Allen would work out in the pros but I damn sure knew it would be entertaining.

So does this mean that the market would support 10 first round picks for Allen and 12 for Mahomes?

I refused to eat pizza with pineapple on it for years. I thought it was an unnatural act practiced by only the most primitive creatures. Then I tried a slice of ham + pineapple and it's now my second favorite topping on pizza.

Any deal is likely to be CAP neutral in 2021 & 2022 so covid should not be a factor here. If the Bills don't sign him this off season you will begin to see a rot spread through the organization. Allen will wonder if he really is the guy here. Soon we'll start to resemble the Dallas Cowboys QB saga where franchise tagging Allen every year is our only option. Now that's how you blow up the CAP. But not to worry. Bean will get it done and Allen will agree to a very CAP friendly deal. Nothing we've seen or heard on this topic from any of the key players would lead anyone to believe differently.

I think there is merit in this position. Tua was the 5th player taken in the 1st round last year and now he is at the epicenter of a possible trade for Watson. Darnold was the 3rd pick and Rosen was the 10th pick in 2018 and one is a bust and the other is on the brink of being a bust. Goff was the 1st pick in the draft not that long ago and now he got swapped for Stafford. I could fill this page with more examples of this.

Let's face it folks threads like this one and the multi page threads on Watson & Stafford only confirm that Bills fans have a bad case of off season speculative syndrome. For the last 25 years we have approached every off season like a gambleholic approaches a poker game. We have months to scheme preseason moves that will finally land the Bills a franchise QB and a playoff birth. But damn, this years Bills have spoiled that fun and now we have to exist in a world where we have a franchise QB and the Super Bowl is a legitimate goal. Where's the fun in that? I'm envious of Detroit fans who now can imagine all the pro-bowlers those 1st round picks will garner. Or how Goff will return to his super bowl year. And imagine how much fun the Rams fans are having as they speculate on how their almost elite new QB, who never won much in Detroit, will lead their elite defense (the one Allen and the Bills torched but I digress) to the Super Bowl. And I can only guess at the ecstasy surging through Miami & Jets fans in anticipation of landing the Watson. Who cares if they have to give up their first born child to get him. Think of all the awesome scenarios for any team that lands a top 5 QB like Watson. The outcome is guaranteed just like when the Bills landed Bledsoe!

And maybe the Rams are worrying that the Chargers and their great young QB are poised to jump past them in the eyes of the LA sports fan. Herbert is going to be a star and McVay is going to feel the heat if he doesn't get top level production out of his QB.

Absolutely there is IMO. And when you throw in 2 first round draft picks I take the picks and Goff EVERY time over Stafford.

The Dolphins have more holes to fill then their 10 - 6 record indicates. Unless the Fish expect to get gifted a slew of turnovers in key games next season they need to upgrade the talent level significantly just to get back to 10 - 6. Signing Watson upsets the Dolphins salary cap limiting the number of high impact free agents they can sign. And giving up those premium picks robs them of trade bait on draft day and the chance to accumulate even more picks and stocking their team with young, low cost talent.

I wouldn't. How many playoff games has he won? A lot of Stafford's stats were generated trying to overcome 3 score deficits. Prevent defenses are kind to a QB's stat line. But even if Stafford is better then Goff, he's not close to being TWO first round picks better.

IMO if Miami pays what it will cost to land Watson it will be the ruin of their team. Watson is a great QB but the cost to the Dolphins would cripple them and we know that when not surrounded by a lot of talent even great QB's like Watson will go 4 - 12. And this is why the NFL will not become like the NBA.

As others have noted the cost to land Watson just got inflated like a Weimar Republic Deutsche Mark! It's easy to throw stones at Goff but is Stafford really that much better? Put Goff in Detroit for all those years and he's more then capable of putting up Stafford's numbers. On paper this trade is a huge win for the Lions.

I can see Miami regressing with Watson at QB. First, to get Watson they'll have to give up most if not all of their first & second round picks this year. Second, the Dolphins won a lot of games because the ball bounced right for them. If they get only half the TO's next year they got this year they'll be hard pressed to win 10 games with Watson at QB. IMO there was nothing scary about that Miami team the Bills beat 56 - 28 in the last game. The Dolphins win that game and they're in the playoffs. The Bills sat a number of key players for the game and sat the rest in the 2nd half. What that game showed was that Miami is not as close as people think. They have a lot of work to do on that roster. The type of work that benefits from having a QB on a rookie contract.