pennstate10

This is exactly right. I said at the time that McD should challenge that. They might say it isnt challengeable, but at least that would have made them think a bit more. Given the NFL more time to realize that theyre opening a huge Pandoras box.

Yeah, we basically agree. But please read what I wrote once more. "By that, I mean a KO returner not signaling fair catch, catching a ball in the end zone, not taking a knee, tossing the ball to the ref, followed by the kicking team recovering ball, and ref signalinig TD." I bolded the pertinent part. this is truly unprecedented. Law is the field where precedence is most commonly searched and cited. There was a dispute about rule interpretation. The men in black had a different interpretation than the ref on the field. I think it does make some sense to look for precedents. Still not sure it should be safety or TD. Interesting, I saw a replay. Early in the discussion, one of the striped refs walk in and just drops a flag. Not throwing at at a foul (like coach coming off the bench) but just a drop. Like you see them do when they watch a replay and decide there should be a grounding call. That makes me think that they re-interpreted the play as an illegal forward pass, but then the men in black convinced them otherwise.

Ah, I'd give partial credit for this despicable tweet to Booger "the Eater" McFarland-- Saying Ford was selfish for this penalty. Thats simply wrong. Ford wasnt selfish, he was trying to play the game. The official, for some assinine reason, decided he needed attention, and needed to inteject himself into the game. It was a horrible call. Horrible timing. And, according to Mike Periera, simply wrong.

Sorry dude, you're simply wrong. 1) A safe sign is not a fair catch sign. Read the rules. 2) He didnt let the ball bounce in the endzone. By rule, that is a touchback. He caught the F@#$##in ball. That is the entire reason for this discussion. Wake up. Or go to a Trump rally. Your call.

"safe" sign is a signal to blockers. Its NOT the same as a fair catch sign. You can argue that it is, but there is no support for this in the rules whatsoever.

thats a good question. I think a mistake on McD's part. You can bet if it happened to Bellichek, he's running out to show the refs the rule as written in the rule book.

You mean this rule? Which doesnt use the word "intent"? "A member of the team attempting to catch a punt or kickoff may signal for a fair catch. To request a fair catch, the receiver must raise one arm fully above their head and wave it from side to side while the ball is in flight. " Fing maroon Anyone with common sense knows that the NFL just opened a huge Pandoras Box with their "common sense" over-ruling, you know, the actual RULES. This is actually a big deal.

Two points here: 1) The situation in the Bills game was completely unprecedented in the NFL. By that, I mean a KO returner not signaling fair catch, catching a ball in the end zone, not taking a knee, tossing the ball to the ref, followed by the kicking team recovering ball, and ref signalinig TD. That sequence of events is completely unprecedented in the NFL. In other walks of life (law, medicine, science), when one encounters an uprecedented event, most rational people look to precedents from similar (not identical) events. The closest precedent is the SC St/Clemson game this year in college football, where the same sequence of events occurred, and was ruled a TD for the kicking team. The only difference in these two events was that the SC St player tossed the ball backward to the ref, and 1-2 sec after he tossed the ball, had a look of horror on his face as he realized that he F@##$%$ up. 2) Given that this play is unprecedented, I'm unsure whether it should have been a TD or illegal forward pass. A forward pass implies a receiver; there was none here. If a QB is being pulled down by the pass rush, feels the ball coming out, but is able to push it forward, is that a forward pass or a fumble? What about an NFL receiver who catches a pass, runs a few steps and trips over a turf monster, and slams the ball down (slightly forward) in disgust, never begin touched down. Is that a fumble? An illegal forward pass? or is he ruled to have given himself up? I sort of think I've seen that ruled a fumble in the past.

If this happened to the Bills I would have beenpissed also. At the returner for not knowing the rules. Not at at the ref for doing his job and properly administering the rules of the game.

Don't be obtuse. NCAA rules are very similar to NFL youre wrong here on several levels

Google clemson v South Carolina state kickoff TD. This was PRECISELY the same play. And gues what? it was called a TD. Imagine that. Refs following the rules when player makes a stupid mistake.

Sorry Dude, you're one million percent wrong. You cant read my mind,or discern my intent (unlike the menin black). As a Bills fan, if the shoe was on the other foot,I would've. Said "wow, we really dodged a bullet there. That should have be a Texan TD"

refs aren’t human, they make mistakes and overlook violations all the time. Like holding for instance. so I think it likely that a KO returner at some point has caught the ball and tosses it to official and official signals touchback. Although I can’t point to such a play. If, in the Bills game, the official caught the ball and signaled touchback, I don’t anyone would have said anything. BUT , in this game, the official enforced the rule. And then he lost his balls to the men in black. think of it like holding. A common rules violation often not called. But when it is called and confirmed by TV replay, I’ve never seen an official back off after men in black told him the OL didn’t intend to hold there. Never. it was poorly handled by the NFL and we haven’t heard the last of this

I think it's pretty clear that McD, and the rest of the Bills coaching staff (let's not pretend McD made this decision in a vacuum) panicked when they didn't punt on this play. I dont think they they realized yeah with 3 TO left, they could easily get the ball backwith 1:20 or more. I think the Bills need a numbers guy who can instantly tell them this type of info. It it surprises me how poorly NFL teams (not just the Bills) manage time in the last 2 minutes.

This is 100% true. I also hope to learn more about the men in black, and what, if anything, should be their official roles in NFL playoff games.

It wasnt a "prevent " D. Was a conventional cover 4 zone. The LBs (at least 49) just dropped too deep. A bad, bad mistake. I hope they learn from it.

this is 100% wrong. The refs never catch the ball. They're old men. They usually drop it.

I like McD, and think hes the coach for Bflo. Blue collar, tough, hardworking. Having said that, he made several key mistakes yesterday. I have no idea who made the conservative O and D play calls, so I wont go there. But with respect to general CEO calls, the punt on 4th and 4 from the 38 yd line was a mistake. Gained them 18 yds. Not punting on 4th and 27 was also a mistake. I think McD panicked there, thinking that they couldnt get the ball back. And not vigorously protesting the reversed KO TD was a huge mistake.

Yikes! Glad you're not on my team! Say the Texans muff a punt. Should the Bills hand him the ball and say, I know you didnt mean to drop this?

As i said in the other thread. 100% chance that every NFL ST coach is showing this to his team, telling his returner to ALWAYS TAKE A EFFIN KNEE!!! Texans lucked out and avoided the TD, or safety. At the time, I said McD should've blown up, that Bellichek would have done so. Mistake by McD in my book.

Sorry, you’re wrong. throwing a challenge flag in the final two minutes is. throwing a challenge flag and being told you can’t challenge the play happens all the time. And the final call in the field, after the men in black intervention, was touchback. There would have been no penalty for throwing a challenge flag.

yeah, but he can certainly throw a challenge flag, get the refs attention, be told he can’t challenge it. because as a scoring play it was reviewed. then you’d have a stop in play, and a few minutes to think things through. instead of having the 4 men in black on the sidelines telling the official what to call.

Actually, according to the rule book, the call on Ford was wrong. Look at Mike Periera twitter for an explanation

So, clearly, the official who signaled TD on the play was applying the rules to the letter. Can we all agree on that? then, he wusses out a let himself be overruled. To compund the problem, McD didn't challenge the ruling. This is critical. You can bet that over coaches-Bellicheck for instance- who know the rules back and forwards would have run on the field, complained long and loudly. by the way, I thought I saw a flag on the field after this play, and thought maybe OBrien was going to get an unsportsmanlike or something. Did they just pick this up?

Lets look at the play from this viewpoint. Its my opinion that every ST coordinator in the NFL is telling his KO returners to MAKE THE F SURE you either take a knee or signal fair catch. Anyone disagree? Any why would they be doing that, if its OK to just act like youre giving yourself up? Because everyone knows Houston dodged a bullet here, without penalty. Nope. Not even once. Show me a play, or report where a TD was signaled and reversed after a guy tossed the live ball to an official.