grb

Oh lord. Another hair-brained loony-tune theory to take the long detour around what's obvious. I won't point out how well Taylor played when he had a good (nowhere near elite) offensive cast. I won't point out the crap situation he had last year. Those facts are like the 500lb gorilla in the room : If you can't see the beast, odds-are you're trying very, very hard not to. Let's look at the latest version of someone trying very, very hard : Bad receivers aren't bad receivers because a craftsmen doesn't blame his tools. First, bad receivers remain bad receivers regardless. Second, the "craftsman" of this analogy didn't blame his tools - Taylor didn't trash his receivers. Third, other people are permitted to notice the difficulty of creating a swiss watch with a dull axe - even if it's taboo for our "craftsman" to say so. Besides, this isn't just gibberish, it's also completely false. I've known craftsmen. No one is more demanding or critical about their tools than they are. "You can say all you want that he had nobody to pass the long ball to"......because he didn't. Full stop. That's why you can say it. His "deep threat" was Chicago-freakin-Bears reject Deonte Thompson. Bad receivers aren't bad receivers because (insert long incoherent quote starting with "These are all NFL pros"). Last season Taylor was sixteenth in the league by NFL passer rating. Just above him was Matt Ryan; just below were Dak Prescott, Andy Dalton, and Derek Carr. Want to make a case a quarterback under-performed with the assets given him? Maybe you should start with Taylor's four neighbors. They all had much, much more to work with than he did. "TT just refused to ruin the only truly marketable asset he had..." Our poster doesn't even bother to explain what this drivel means. If I had to guess, it's something to do with Taylor throwing few interceptions. Anti-TT-types have this bizarre obsession with making his low interception rate into a Tragic Flaw of intelligence, ethics, fortitude, resolve or manliness. Yep. That may be stupid, sick or pathetic - perhaps all at once - but it's their obsession. Reminder : Taylor had the same low interception rate the 15 games he had Watkins and Woods on the field - when he had a 8.25 ypa and threw 27 tds. "This was so apparent in so many games when he flat out didn't attempt the passes to wide open receivers"..... Ah, yes - all those "open receivers" streaking wild and free in the mind of every Taylor hater. I'm convinced they dream of them at night, perhaps counting them as they flow by like so many sheep. I admit to sometimes having inappropriate daydreams about luscious Hollywood starlets. The anti-Taylor crowd? They fantasize about about all those "wide open receivers". So many !!! Why, you can almost reach out and touch them, they seem soooo real...... Speaking of real : Bills receivers were at league bottom in getting separation. There's a stat for that. That's where they were. Back in the real world. Not in fantasies.

I don't think facts, evidence or personal opinion drives NFL disciplinary matters - public relations does.....

Three Points : Without the incoherent spittle-spraying rants of TT-haters, the man would barely have any support here. Trust me on this, I know. Maybe you should do a measure of Irrational Support vs Irrational Hatred. It'd be good for you; self-awareness is a positive thing, however painful. Your rankings will be constantly re-calibrated during the '18 season. And it doesn't matter if that's a hill you want to die on or not. You chose the ground; you're stuck.

Cowherd is a clown. Not only did Mayfield not stand for his half-baked crap, but BM was smooth and in control while answering back. I'm sure that wasn't the kind of response Colin was looking to provoke.......

They say the best thing to do in your situation is to stop digging......

Really cute puppies dude. That aside, are you going show up this Fall - in the inevitable threads on TT's performance in Cleveland? You might need your puppies then. They say pets are a great help to people suffering depression.........

Yes, Taylor often held the ball too long. Yes, the pass protection was frequently atrocious. Yes, Taylor sometimes made critical plays precisely because he held the ball too long. Partisans on the Taylor Issue tend to pick one of those three, yet they're all true. But it's even more complicated than that. Time to Throw is a curious stat. Looking at the 2017 numbers - yes - we find Taylor near the bottom, just above Russell Wilson and DeShaun Watson. But we also find Tom Brady at 23rd, Matt Ryan at 25th, Case Keenum at 32nd and Jared Goff at 35th. The top ten are : Blaine Gabbert, Brian Hoyer, Andy Dalton, Derek Carr, Eli Manning, Josh McCown, Ben Roethlisberger, Mike Glennon, Jay Cutler, and C.J. Beathard. Excuse me for being critical, but I don't find that an inspirational list. Also : There's little more than a half-second difference between the topmost and worst numbers. I just paused to look at my watch and consider that. You assume, of course, that tiny little delta still has a colossal significance. Maybe it does, but it isn't reflected very much in the rankings. Good and bad quarterbacks are distributed almost randomly up & down the list. https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2017/all#average-time-to-throw

Hilarious. What point do you think you're making? I doubt you even know. Look at the numbers : Does it seem like Taylor needs an excuse for his play the limited time he had Watkins and Woods on the field? An 8.25 ypa would be near top of the league for any year, any team, any quarterback. The touchdown to interception ratio is stellar, and 27 tds total probably noses you up around the top dozen a typical sixteen game season. And that's what the "right on the cusp of being a back-up" did the only time in three years the Bills put a decent group of skill players around him. Please feel free to take your sack stat and ride that horsey as far as it goes. The big picture doesn't change : How many games Taylor starts for Cleveland depends on how long Cleveland is playing meaningful games, which is hard to predict. But Taylor will be starting for an NFL team in '19 and the years after. Because this "right on the cusp" and "almost every team" schlock is - frankly speaking - pretty damn stupid.

And yet all you had to do was put Watkins and Woods on the same field with him, and he did this : 63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 td passes. 6 ints ( 15 games total) But what am I saying ?!? He was probably sacked during those fifteen games - while he was throwing over eight yards an attempt, with a 27-6 td/int ratio...... And to think, over half of the quarterbacks in the league throw to receivers as good if not better than W&W - probably way more than half. Hell, Woods got only the third most targets on the Rams; Watkins even less. You can almost say the QB for every team in the league had a better set of weapons these past two years than Tyrod, but not quite. Very close, tho. I'm guessing a lot of people's quotes are right on the cusp of getting bumped, once games are played this fall..........

God I love quarterback debates !!! So Peterman showed good accuracy on the passes he was accurate on? There's a firm foundation on which to build.........

It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people yearn to believe, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? That seems so simple, but ask and you hear every kind of nonsense. Let's take this thread alone : OldTimeAFLGuy is still selling his shtick Taylor lacks the "skill set" to throw downfield. But inquire of the old-timer why TT had one of the best long-games in the NFL when the Bills fielded a deep threat - and then you get deafening silence. The Red King has this soulful theory it's just a "crisis of faith". Mercifully, this isn't a Garden of Gethsemane-style-thing, but lack of faith by Taylor in his receivers. About those receivers - rated one of the worst groups in the league last year - T.R.King has strangely little to say. But if faith is belief in the absence of evidence, then T.R.K. has it it spades. He believes (truly believes!!!) in all those wide receivers streaking free and clear every single play. Meanwhile, (back on home planet Earth) NetGenStats listed the Bills receivers as near league-bottom in getting separation. Of course faith can handle that fact, right? But PeterGriffin has the most elegantly constructed nonsense of all : The league "figured Taylor out" at the exact same rate his offensive cast deteriorated. Two independent phenomena occurring in perfect sync, but having absolutely no relationship. Try disproving something that nebulous, huh? It doesn't seem like that hard a question : If Taylor is the disaster so many people want to see, why did he play pretty well the only time the Bills put a good (not elite) offensive cast around him? Or for that matter, why shouldn't he play the same way when put in the same situation?

Especially downfield, huh? When Taylor actually had a downfield receiver he was one of the best long-ball throwers in the NFL. It wasn't that long ago; you should remember. TT averaged eight yards an attempt in 2015, which is an exceptional number for any year, any quarterback, any team. Exactly when did he waste "skill position talent" as a Bill ?!? When Watkins sat half a season, then ran on a broken left foot when he did play? When his receivers were Matthews & Benjamin just shy of crutches, Zay like a deer in the headlights, Holmes & Tate as warm bodies, and Deonte Thompson starring as the "deep threat"?!? Yeah. Taylor really wasted a lot of "skill position talent" there. Perhaps you've forgotten: Taylor only had Watkins and Woods together 15 games over two years. When he did? 63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 td passes. 6 ints. Seems like Taylor didn't waste that "skill position talent" the limited time he had it on the field. But - hey - entertaining thread. Probably lots of good quotes to bump once real games are being played.........

I was responding to this : "certainly hope his new start/new venue moves him closer to (his) NFL dream of being a starting NFL QB" To be fair, maybe OldTimeAFLGuy just got a little clunky in his phrasing - something I'm guilty of often. Otherwise it's a kinda strange statement. And yes, the trade was good for both parties, though please excuse me if I find your reasoning ludicrous. (One of the best deep-ball passers in the NFL lost the ability to throw deep because he .... (dramatic pause) .... "lost faith"...... give. me. a. break..... Bottom line? The Bills were always going to see Taylor as a year-by-year expedient, they were always going to treat him poorly, and they were happy letting offensive talent drain from the team with Taylor as an excuse. None of which was good for either side. No one knows what Allen will become, but lets assume the worse and say his first two years are : 83 of 218, 38.1%, 1410 yds, 6.5 ypa, 6 tds, 24 ints 203 of 373, 54.4%, 2259 yds, 6.1 ypa, 13 tds, 21 ints Then maybe he becomes the four-time Super Bowl champion, one year MVP and twice season TD-throwing leader Terry Bradshaw. The Steelers committed to him, they built a team around him, and championships resulted. Or look at the current Pittsburgh quarterback: Roethlisberger whined about "wasting" a pick on Rudolph because he (BR) is a jerk, but the Steelers also spent a 2nd & 3rd round pick on receiver and o-linesman. Neither position was close to a need, but Pittsburgh has continually re-stocked and re-loaded to give their guy everything he needs to succeed. It helps to have someone who is "your guy" so you start taking responsibility for supporting & building around him. Otherwise you're just sitting around with your thumb (in an awkward place) - perhaps inventing lame-o theories (faith ?!?!). I was living in the Washington area when RGIII and Cousins were drafted. After Griffin's injury the Redskins played Cousins and weren't entirely satisfied. Later they tried Cousins two or three more times, at one point benching him for Colt McCoy. Sometime during all that, the idea he wasn't "their guy" burrowed into their brains, and no matter how much Kirk lit it up afterwards, that idea could never be dislodged. That's how Washington bungled thru multiple franchise tags before paying out the same money for Smith and, to my eye, getting the worse of the deal. You don't wanna make it too complicated. Taylor is gone. Allen is the guy. Look to the future and work to make it happen. (also: don't waste time worrying if Allen has "faith" in his receivers. please)

People look at this thread with negativity and limited vision. Heard of the Eternal Flame? Think something like that.......

There's something so very Billsy about saying Cleveland gives Taylor the chance to start for an honest-to-god real NFL team.......