transplantbillsfan

I'm feeding the fire? And why do you say "them" as though I've been out of line with multiple posters in this thread? I'm actually trying to have some discussion here and you think I'm the primary guilty party. Typical. Here's an idea, direct your corrective posting crusade at some of the other posters (just one in this case) who need to fix their incendiary posting and I'll believe at that point you're genuinely trying to be helpful in some way. As of now it just looks like you don't agree with what I say and don't want to keep reading stuff you disagree with, you act like you're being helpful here, yet you only seem to direct these "helpful" posts towards me when others need clearly the same if not more help. Spread the love, Shady, spread the love

It'd take anyone 5 minutes given the detail I've already given you. Took you that long at least to come up with and type yet another really stupid analogy of yours. And, honestly, if you weren't such an arrogant bastard when you first brought up providing the times, I probably would have done it. But that's what you are, so that's asking too much. At this point you're just stupidly derailing what could be a good discussion. I'll come back if you ever want to talk about this topic having watched the plays you could easily find...

No, there shouldn't be for anyone. He gets his weapons and the year he earned to prove he can either be a viable long term answer at QB or that the Bills need to put their draft arsenal towards a 1st round QB next year.

Another incredible contribution from Crusher

Bills burning question: What more does Taylor have to prove? He's a franchise QB https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-burning-question-what-more-does-taylor-have-to-prove-hes-a-franchise-qb/ Well, Thurm, some would disagree with you, apparently I don't agree with the article that he's proven he's a franchise QB. I still think he has a chance. We should have that answer at the end of this season.

Fine Thurm, keep running with your arbitrary numbers without even acknowledging Taylor saw less playing time than any single QB from your list save Shaun Hill and that Taylor played at a much higher level for his first 30 starts than any of those guys from your list save Rodgers and Romo. Keep ignoring the fact that 8 guys on your own list took nearly or more than a full seasons worth of snaps and had at least a season's worth of pass attempts. And that 4 of those 8 guys had about 2 season's worth or more. And that of the guys who were left, you came up with 5 guys (Hill, Huard, Holcomb, Fiedler, Wallace) who were either just not good or so inconsistent and up and down that it was pretty obvious out the gate that they were likely no better than good backups. And you're left with Rodgers and Romo who became franchise QBs (but also had significantly more pass attempts by the end of year 4, especially Rodgers) and then Garrard, Beurline, and Schaub who all were good enough to at least stick around the league as starters because there were some questions about whether they were franchise QBs or could be because they all played at that level for a relatively significant period of time. However, even the 3 of those QBs had at least a season's worth of pass attempts by the end of their 4th year. Beurline had 2 season's worth. Taylor had 35 pass attempts. He didn't see any significant live in-game action to really develop on the field with bullets flying, and you listen to or read interviews from ANY NFL QB past or present and they say time and time and time again that on field experience with bullets flying is the best way for a QB to learn, by far. If you want to argue for the sake of arguing (which is what we're doing right now), then whatever. But if you're so blinded as to see the fact that NFL QBs simply don't sit on the bench for the vast majority of their rookie contract and follow it up with winning the starting QB job in an open competition and then playing at even a consistently average NFL QB level for an extended period of time immediately starting their starting QB playing career. For that reason, your 6th year rules for Taylor don't apply here or, at least, are poised to be broken by a QB who's already been breaking rules for "things that just don't happen."

Not hiding anything at all, you have the seven games. Just go watch all the passes from those games and see if you come out with the same numbers as me. And if you don't, we can have a discussion. Just tell me the game, down and distance, and targeted WR with outcome and I'm smart enough to figure out which play it was so we can further pursue this wonderful discussion

Thurm, again, you say sixth year like it's a magical number. The problem is that absolutely none of the QBs you listed had his few regular season wraps as Taylor did. Why does that matter? Seems pretty obvious, but apparently you're too smart to get out of your own way sometimes so I'll explain briefly at least. QBs need some game time reps in order to learn the game at full speed. ask any QB or listen to any interview of any QB pastor present and they say resoundingly that it's the on field experience that really matters. passing attempts and first four years: Tyrod Taylor: 35 Matt Schaub: 450 Shaun Hill: 0 Seneco Wallace: 166 David Garrard: 298 Damon Huard: 288 Rex Grossman: 675 Matt Cassell: 555 Jay Fiedler: 101 Kelly Holcomb: 73 Tony Romo: 220 Aaron Rodgers: 595 Steve Beuerline: 610 Danny White: 103 Shaun Hill, Tyrod Taylor, Seneca Wallace, Jay Fiedler, and Kelly Holcomb are the QBs who started less than a season's worth of games before the end of year 4. Danny White is a completely different era and I don't know enough about him to discuss him. It was obvious by their 7th years that Fiedler, Hill, Wallace and Holcomb were all backups, whether after moving from team to team and starting some random games but never winning a starting job outright or just not being good, at all. That is something far from obvious for Taylor. The Taylor situation is incredibly unique. He might not be a franchise QB down the road, but your prized "6th year" criteria really doesn't matter much here.

To the bold... Total Bull $H!+ You told me 50 after I presented the criteria and responded directly to that criteria. I told you give me 10. Maybe you just selectively read the way so many here seem to do and merely saw my first set of criteria and ran with it, but I'm glad you're admitting 10 don't exist, further cementing the uniqueness of Taylor's situation

Wow... all that time writing this post up and you could have easily discovered at least half of the plays based on game, down & distance, and targeted WR by looking at the play by plays in the time you wrote it... And you write enough long winded posts that go nowhere, so clearly you'd have the time to do the other half. You're a smart guy, Thurm... have at it!

Boooo!!! I plan on surfing til I die so I'll keep searching for that fountain

Thank you for coming to show all these players how to act on and off the field. Please help us get back to the playoffs

Arthritis in my right knee and getting hip problems at 35. Yeah... sad...

Hope so, I started taking osteobiflex a couple weeks ago just to try to find the fountain of youth again

"Can" as demonstrated by several examples doesn't mean anyone has said he shouldn't do it more. http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=111&type=Passing&year=Taylor had the sixth highest passer rating in the red zone in 2016. Kirk Cousins moment...? Looks like he's got a little bit of a fire lit under him. I saw either yesterday or the day before from Joe B that he thought Taylor had a good day or two and camp. But he tweeted it. He didn't write about it in his daily "seven observations". I can see Taylor getting frustrated reading only about the bad or unavoidably good rather than what's going pretty well for him and camp. Either that, or maybe more likely, he knows that the team is working on certain things and at times that might make him not look as good because of the things they're working on it, yet that's all the media sees and reports on without having context. Regardless, he seems angry!

I'm 36. And I felt my body take a turn at 35. Suddenly I'm having weird problems I never had before. I can understand it for football players for sure.

CHEEEE HOOOOO!!! I have always loved Boldin! I wonder if it's just coincidental that this is happening the day after a Watkins scare...?

Thank you for the honesty and open mindedness, but I'm still curious what specifically changed your mind? Did you rewatch a bunch of games? I ask because these "nuances" are very seemingly scout specific. Any plays as examples of these you could direct us to?

Yeah... this is interesting because before BBMB shut down I remember you felt very differently about Taylor. What changed your mind? At least I think that was you, right? You were the one getting a scouting job, right?

I like that you bring this point up. I actually feel like the timing West Coast offense will work really well for Taylor. I think when he has A well defined and quick timing route before the ball is even snapped, it will only A well defined and quick timing route before the ball is even snapped, it will help him rather than hurt him. help him rather than hurt him. Somewhere in this thread, another poster posted a link to a WGR interview of Cian Fahey talking specifically about Taylor for about 14 minutes. One of his points about the whole YAC thing was that Taylor threw the ball down the field a lot more than the majority of NFL QBs (7th highest Average Depth of Throw) and that, in general, any NFL QB throwing deeper throws will be less likely to get YAC out of those throws. And he also points out that Taylor's accuracy percentage (% of "catchable balls" vs "uncatchable balls") was still the ninth highest in the NFL (76.02%). In his catalog, he actually breaks down the accuracy of each QB in specific ranges: behind the LOS, 1 to 5 yards, 6 to 10 yards, 11 to 15 yards, 16 to 20 yards, 21+ yards. Two out of Taylor's three most accurate ranges were the parts of the field that I think will be the focus in the West Coast offense. He was the ninth most accurate quarterback in the 6 to 10 range. He was the eighth most accurate quarterback in the 11 to 15 range. As you might guess, the other category he ranked highly in was the 21+ range, where he was ninth. I've brought this up before, but I really think you saw this when Lynn took over last year. Lots of plays designed even over the middle in that 6 to 15 range. To me, that's the bread-and-butter of the West Coast offense. The general criticism that Taylor was the reason that the Bills were so poor in YAC because he doesn't put the ball in places where WRs can gain any extra yardage is questionable, at best. A few months ago when this issue came up, I started with the plan to do the whole season, but after doing the first 3 games and realizing time was an issue (wish I had more of it), I decided to jump to what I thought was his worst 4 game stretch. What I did was just rewatch the completions for ball placement to see how many of his completions were poorly placed and left yardage on the field. This is more about ball placement than accuracy, something Fahey said he's not looking at as he's just looking for "catchable balls"... and yes, I think the 2 should be examined separately because accuracy would include all those incompletions. But there seems to be this general belief by some that Taylor's WRs were somehow always bailing him out and that Taylor is responsible for leaving yards on the field. Well, in those 7 games (BALT, NYJ, ARI, CIN, JAX, OAK, PITT), Taylor completed 111 passes. By my own eyes (feel free to doubt them and try this yourself ), only 7 of those passes were so poorly placed that they left potential yardage on the field. 1- A high pass to Clay on 3rd down in the Ravens game 2- A 3rd down pass to Woods in the Ravens game 3- A 2nd down pass to Goodwin in the Cardinals game 4- A 1st down pass that was low to a wide open Woods on the sideline in the Cardinals game 5- A 3rd down and 1 to Harvin in the Bengals game that was a little behind him... he was gonna get clobbered, anyway. 6- A 1st down pass to Clay that was a little behind him in the middle and really didn't have much chance for YAC... in fact, the chance for that YAC may have been to the middle, where the ball was thrown. 7- A 3rd down pass to Goodwin around the sideline that was a 1st down conversion, anyway

Isn't that the point John was making? Those are Taylor's numbers from 2015 if you were to "project" his numbers for the 2 games he didn't play in: Cincy & Jax I've been saying all along, his 2015 production was really impressive for any first year starting QB and expecting him to build on those numbers seems almost unreasonable. But I am glad we can agree on his 2015 production being a relative benchmark.

Taylor needs to be better than 2016. That was not good enough. What if in 2017 his final stats are 430+ passing attempts, 8 YPA, 64% completion %, 3500 yards passing, 23 passing TDs, 7 INTs, 650 rushing yards, 5 rushing TDs, 1 lost fumble? Would 4000 total yards, 28 TDs and 8 turnovers manage to keep him in Buffalo as the starter beyond 2017?

I feel like talking "total TDs" just like "total turnovers" would be the opposite of cherry picking.

Oh man.... helluva post and spot on