transplantbillsfan
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Posts posted by transplantbillsfan
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The more I read about this "anchoring" technique to heal a torn achilles... no.
Tre might actually be participating fully in the minicamp in a couple months.
I think we restructure his deal, which would be smart, but if we get a fully healthy Tre White by minicamp, maybe McDermott and Babbich can transition Benford or Douglas to Safety.
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Watched a couple Diggs interviews.
Honestly... I think he's just sick of people asking about it. I think he believes he clearly squashed any thought of him wanting out of Buffalo when in Training Camp he spoke glowingly of the Bills and said he wanted to retire a Bill.
Even his interviews now he says he doesn't want to be traded. He says he and Josh are family and Josh has done so much for him.
The whole "where there's smoke there's fire" statement came in the middle of him riffing.
We can't move Diggs.
We won't move Diggs.
Diggs will continue to be evasive all offseason because that's just how he is.
#/thread
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16 hours ago, Buddy Hix said:
Allen plays a physical game, so comparing him to a pocket passer seems disingenuous.
Regardless, if Marino didn’t win one, nothing is guaranteed.
John Elway played at a high level until he was 38. In fact, he was the Super Bowl MVP at that age.
Brett Favre also had a physical style of play and he had over 200 consecutive starts and had one of the best seasons of his career at age 40.
Allen is the current Iron Man of the NFL and it's not even close. He has around 90 consecutive starts. The next closest QB has less than a quarter of that.
Josh Allen still has more years of high level QB play in front of him than behind him.
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Just now, Gambit said:
Now now, he has 2 playoff wins. Sooo, twice as good... MVP should include playoffs honestly.
Only problem with that is that NFL MVP and Super Bowl MVP would pretty much always be the same guy.
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1 minute ago, Einstein said:
Allen’s 5-1 record against playoff teams came with average margin of victory of 13 points.
There is no way around it. Lamar was no more the MVP than Allen.
It doesn't matter... everyone (except Nick Wright) knows Allen is the better QB.
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Onto next year...
It really is a joke Lamar won it this year. Bills fan and Josh Allen homer aside... McCaffery really should have won it.
Do even any of the most negative Nancy or (as they'd call themselves) "objective" and "realistic" posters on this board think Lamar Jackson was more valuable to his team this year or just flat out had a better year?
Plus... anyone notice no one EVER talks about how many fumbles he loses... it's a lot.
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23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:
Why are you excited about that?
And not all coaches keep elevating positions coaches in the room to Coordinator. And there's no reporting that other teams offered either of them jobs that they turned down.
I'm excited about Brady and Babbich because they're hot names across the NFL for a reason. Brady coordinated arguably the best passing offense in College Football history and has actually served as an OC in the NFL and found some success with minimal talent and Teddy Bridgewater at QB.
As far as Babbich goes... everything he's touches has turned to Gold. He was the Safeties coach in the beginning of Poyer and Hyde's career and the year he shifted to LB coach was Edmunds best year and Milano was an All-Pro and then this year we all saw Bernard plus he turned Dodson into a pretty good LB.
That's why I'm excited.
And most coaches do promote from within. Perhaps it's time for you to consider that promoting from within is actually a good sign.
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44 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:
It doesn't belie what happened--it's what happened.
Frazier was squeezed out gently, McD took over, then he moved a subordinate with no coordinator experience up. All in 3 seasons.
Yes Daboll got another job. Then they promoted from within--the QB coach. Then they fired him and promoted from within--the QB coach (who was fired during his second season as an OC "playcaller" before that).
It's not the most "exciting" way to manage coaching staff, but is seems McD is determined to promote guys who already answered to his authority. It doesn't reek of stability
We aren't on a new Coordinator because we fired one each time.
We fired one OC and (probably) one DC.
As for the whole "McDermott should go outside the organization because all he hires are YES men!!!"... Matt Parrino and Ryan Talbot talked about this recently on their "Shout" podcast. Of course Head Coaches are going to hire people who will do what he wants them to do. That's what all Head Coaches do. And they should. The difference here is also that both our new OC and DC were desired by other teams for either the same position or a Head Coaching position.
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18 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:
I don't think McD is giving his DC much juice this coming season. And the 3rd OC and DC in 3 seasons isn't ideal.
Well this just belies the what happened and really paints it negatively for no good reason.
For OC, we lost our previous OC who was so good that he got a HC job. Then we promoted the QB coach (who NEVER had any playcalling experience) already on the squad and let him try the position for a full year and a half before moving on from him. Then we promoted the new QB coach who DID have previous playcalling experience to OC and we got a 9 game sample size with him.
So, as far as OC goes at least, it's not like we don't know part of what we're getting.
For DC, there was a mutual parting of ways (it seems) with our years-long DC. Then our HC who cut his teeth as a DC decided to call plays. Now we promoted a guy widely viewed as an up and coming young coach, not because of the lack of success this past season, but more as a way to make sure we don't lose the young guy.
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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:
Yea Tre wasn't close to his best. But he could move around, he wasn't a total liability on the field. That is the distinction. Von was replacement player level.
Tre was pretty bad when he came back. He was also eased back into the lineup with several weeks after Von was this year. You hear athletes time and time again say that ACL tears really take more than a year's worth of recovery for them to feel like themselves again. We started to see flashes of the old Von in his last 2 games.
I've said my piece. You've said yours while hijacking a thread that was supposed to be about getting excited about this team moving forward. Maybe you should start a separate thread about how you think Von should be cut because he's shot. I'm sure that thread will get plenty of dialogue.
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8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:
It is not just age. It is more watching him this past year. Because I wasn't saying coming into the season Von is toast. When you combine how he looks with the fact he is about to turn 35 I think the chances of an offseason being the cure are extremely low.
See Tre White coming back from his 2021 injury in 2022.
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15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
With respect to Greg you don't "kick $15m out of the $32m we owe into 2025."
$6m of that money is in 2025 even if we cut him as a post June 1 cut NEXT year which almost everyone presumes is the plan. So really what you do is accelerate (I prefer that term to kick in these circumstances - kick to me means move out in time whereas here we would be moving money forward) an additional $9m onto the 2025 cap which would otherwise (with a post 1 June next year cut) be on the cap in 2026.
Again my point here is that 32m is 32m whichever way round you go. You can't get out of a penny of that money by cutting him now or cutting him later. This year's 17m is guaranteed and the 15m after that is long since paid in cash terms. So do you want to spend ANOTHER $6.7m on Von or not? Personally I think he is done, so no.
Yes. You spend another $6.7m on Von.
I understand your position and wildly disagree with it. There's an objective age cut in your brain that Von just doesn't make.
There's absolutely no arguing against that because we didn't see a fully healthy Von really at all this year. Tre was a shell of himself when he came back in 2022 after an ACL tear in 2021. He looked much better this season.
I (and others) am saying Von deserves some latitude when it comes to his performance this year because of his injury.
You're saying he reached X age so he's shot and that's it. That's literally what you're arguing.
I think that argument is ridiculous. I could point to Reggie White, Bruce Smith, or even Michael Strahan who all had good to great seasons at an age older than what Von will be this season.
You'll say different era.
This is a stupid argument.
Von will be on the team. You've sure made your position clear... you'll either be right or wrong. But talking about a simple age cutoff as the strict and sole reason he won't belong on an NFL field next season is a stupid conversation because there's no proof of it other than screaming from the mountaintop that he's shot as you've been doing throughout this entire thread, which ironically wasn't about Von.
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6 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:
How you going to roll your eyes at my comment and then basically say the same thing 😂
You said Shakir is the only guaranteed contributor on the team next year and that's blatantly false. Diggs is guaranteed to be on the team as a contributor next year, and even if he's on the otherbside of the hill, he's still better than Shakir, who I love.
People need to just stop watching Diggs interviews and reading his tweets. He's the ultimate Troll in the offseason and you all fall for it.
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I realize it's fun to pick through and choose "our guys," but in this draft, I don't know if Beane can really go wrong as long as he drafts a WR in the 1st and 2nd round and another later.
We have Josh ***** Allen... he's going to make whatever WR we draft a stud.
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I really don't know why we're still talking about cutting Von as a viable option or even a good one.
Here's Greg Tompsett on the idea of cutting Von. Go to 5:45
"Unfortunately, we have to hope that (he contributes next year like he did against KC) because there's still $32m that we haven't accounted for that we've paid Von Miller. He's going to count for that money whether he's on the team or not, so releasing him--whether you do that before June 1st or after June 1st--we've still gotta make up that $32m. So, some people will try to put it as "Oh! If we do it after June 1st, we save money!" Well, no... you just kicked $15m out of the $32m we owe into the 2025 and make next year even worse."
18 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:Everything I've read everywhere does not ascertain your statement that we'd save money cutting him this offseason. I've not found one article or post that says we'd be better off doing it this year.
With how he performed last year and our cap situation this year, if it were really as simple as cut him and save 6.7m with no other ramifications, everyone would say do it.
No one does. Just you and some other fans on the board. I'll go with the actual experts, who are trying to find any possible way to save anything and never list cutting Von. I don't think it's as simple as you and others are making it out to be. Or else it would be a no brainer.
EDIT: Okay, i've found something. And again, it doesn't support your idea that it's a good call to cut him now, explaining why no one recommends doing it.
Overthecap says Post 6/1 2024 - 17m in Dead Cap, 6.7 in cap savings.
Post 6/1 2025 - 6.37m in Dead Cap, 17.5 in cap savings
That's why you don't do it this year. You're paying 17m in Dead Cap for 6.7 in savings wherein next year, you're paying just 6.37 for 17.5 in savings.
In the long run, you're essentially paying 11m to cut him now and create another hole.
Also factor in the CAP money that will be pushed into 2025 if we were to cut him post June 1st 2024.
16 hours ago, John from Riverside said:Hoping we bring back guys like Kingsley Jonathan
Always over performs will be on a good contract and we need that kind of youth movement
He's still under contract
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7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:
Oh come on. Did you focus on him? Von was no better than a pet rock out there this entire season. Just because you’re paying him it doesn’t mean he has to take up one of the very limited roster spots. He did nothing!
Not true in his last 2 games.
Even Joe Marino in his All-22 review of the KC game said Von was one of the best defenders on the field that game.
And Joe has said all season that Von should have been inactive because of his lack of contribution.
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2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:
But the dead money next year is already factored in. Because they are on the hook for that anyway and if the plan was, as everyone has pretty much concluded it was, to cut him after 3 years of the deal then the ONLY ramification to next year is you cut him now and all $15m of that is on 2025's cap whereas if you cut him after next season you have the ability to spread that over two years. But you are still on the hook for all that money. It has already been paid. Von has it in his bank. The Bills have to account for every dollar of it and have been planning on that basis.
And the $17m in dead cap this year if you cut him is $17m you are accounting for whether he is here or not.
So the question remains have him at nearly $24m and him be here or have him at $17m and not be here and have $6.7m to spend on an alternative who can be more productive.
If you think Von can bounce back and produce sure it is a no brainer to keep him but if as I do you think he is toast it is equally a no brainer to cut him.
But as the other poster said at one point, cutting Von means you have to replace him. And not just with a single $6.7 million DE. You'd be cutting a rostered DE after having already paid him all that money and would leave yourself with only Player X who replaces Von, Kline, and Groot. You need at least 2, probably 3 more rosterable DEs on this team.
And again... you've already paid Von a ton of money, so if there's any thought he can be a value to the roster as a contributor, it doesn't make much sense to cut him.
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1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:
There really is nasty ramifications. Releasing him this offseason would incur a 17.08 dead cap hit this season and a 15.417 dead cap hit next season as well. We'd take on over 32 in Dead Cap and save 6.7 on a post 6/1 cut. Meanwhile, in keeping him, we could take on just 15m dead cap next season and save 8.5 in 2025.
So we'd be eating 32m in dead cap and saving 6.7 cutting him this year or eating 15m in dead cap and saving 8.5 next year. It's really a no brainer.
Compounding the issue is the fact that, as opposed to CB, we're razor thin at DE. Cutting Miller would leave us with just Greg Rousseau, Kingsley Jonathan, and Kameron Cline under contract.And if you want to make it about cap space to spend on DE and damn the repercussions next year - there's actually a way to save 12m this year prior to 6/1. And it involves keeping him. It isn't advised, but neither is cutting him:
You want to make it as simple as "cut Von now and save 6.7m". It's not. There's a reason why this is only something that's talked about as a possibility by fans.It's simply not going to happen. And if it's about getting money for his replacement this year and putting blinders on to repercussions - it still makes more sense to keep him.
6 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:I'm just not sure what it is that would make you feel confident enough at this point in his career he can return to perform very much better than some of the younger guys
Because he always has.
He was still playing at an extremely high level in the 10 games he played in 2022 at age 33.
If we get 80% of that 10 game in 2022 Von Miller, it's better than "some of the younger guys." And who exactly are "some of the younger guys" you're referring to?
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5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:
There really are no nasty ramifications though. The money they are on the hook for next year they are on the hook for if they cut him today, on 1 June or after next season. The question is just do you pay him $23m to be here or do you pay him $16m not to be here and pocket the difference for a player who contributes more.
And I don't consider Tre an underperforming player. The last game he played for the Bills was literally one of the best 5 performances in his career here. Okay, it took him 8 or 9 games to round back into top form after his last injury and now he has another injury to try and bounce back from but I still think there is a lot of good football left in Tre and at even 80% of his best he is the best corner on the Bills.
It wasn't just 8 or 9 games to round back into form after his last injury. It was 6 games and then an entire offseason and then however many games in 2023 you would argue it took him in 2024.
Von now has an entire offseason to get his body right and recover.
You're actually convincing me even more that cutting Von simply won't happen. It's clear you think it's strictly his age as the reason he's "shot." You've hitched your wagon to that idea, and that's fine.
Brandon Beane signed him to a contract that very clearly intended to keep him for at least 3 years, plus the previous restructure.
Von Miller is not getting cut. He'll have the offseason to recover and get right and then we get to see what percent of the old Von he is in 2024.
2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:On Von - literally anyone. He was hopeless this year and I have zero faith in his ability to return to form. He couldn't move let alone rush.
On Tre.... I think Douglas played pretty well. But I still think an 80% Tre White is an upgrade on him. He remains comfortably our best corner IMO. And his game against Miami in which he got injured he was outstanding. I feel reasonably confident he can get back. I wouldn't take that chance at the current deal. But if he is willl to take a pay cut I would and there is reason to believe he would.
Douglas played "pretty well????" "80% Tre White is an upgrade on him"?????
Are you just trolling everyone?
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7 hours ago, boater said:
Ahhh... we're going to have a "Yute" movement.
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11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:
Why would we you think we are assured to see an improvement from a guy at an age where almost everyone at that position has hit the decline? The history of pass rushers beyond 35 is not good, and in the last 15 years it is even worse than "not good". It is almost non-existant. And that isn't factoring in coming off the ACL and the obvious limitations on his movement last year.
Again, I'll be here to eat crow if I'm wrong. But Von Miller is finished.
Von Miller is one of the absolute best pass rushers in NFL history.
The fact that you believe suddenly he won't even belong on an NFL field less than 2 years removed from 8 sacks in 10 games is pretty amazing to me.
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12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:
I just think there is way more chance, and I mean like to the times of ten, that you get the old Tre White than you get the old Von Miller. I really don't think it's close.
Try and renegotiate with Tre. Cut Von.
Wow... seriously disagree on this.
Tre had 2 injuries to the same leg basically 2 years in a row. And the 2nd injury is considered a much worse injury than the first.
Meanwhile, Von's first injury was years ago. Yes, age might be a factor, but Von fully recovered from his first injury and was back to his old self for years. We never truly saw that happen after Tre's first injury. I think Von's age just made for a longer recovery time.
I think we keep both guys, but if I were to bet on which one is going to have a better 2024 season, it's Von by a longshot.
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1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:
With geriatric Frazier, we had one of the best defenses in the NFL.
I don't think our failures in the playoffs had anything to do with Frazier's age. Youth isn't an automatic cure.
Frazier was born the same year I was, btw. I don't believe my cognitive skills, imagination, inventiveness, mental energy, etc. have declined at all. Saying Frazier is too old to run a good/aggressive defense is an insult to everyone my age. Spags in KC is the same age as Frazier and me and seems to be doing just fine.
Prejudice based on age is just as pernicious as prejudice based on race, gender, ethnicity, or anything else.
Really didn't mean to offend in terms of age, but our failures in the playoffs especially in the 13 second game certainly had something to do with Frazier's "bend don't break" defensive mentality that he's notorious for. Same goes for other big games we've lost, including the Houston playoff game in 2019.
Age aside, Frazier's defenses were always great in the regular season, but were a huge contributor if not THE contributor to our final losses in 4 consecutive playoff games. That Bengals game last year Burrow picked the Bills D apart because Frazier approached the game with what everyone could tell was obviously the wrong game plan.
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6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:
Yea. 20 years ago. The average age of NFL players has decreased almost 2 years since then. It's a young man's game. I don't think even the great Bruce Smith has double digit sacks at those ages anymore.... and Bruce wasn't coming off a second ACL injury in those years and hadn't looked as stiff as a board the year before.
What would constitute a rebound in your mind? Because if it just means better than 0 sacks, 0 tackles for loss, 5 total pressures and a 25% missed tackle rate in 258 defensive snaps then sure, I can imagine he does better than that. It wouldn't be difficult. But to me for it to be a rebound that makes him definitely better value than the $6.7m you might be able to spend on another vet guy it has to be AJE 2023 type production (i.e. at least good enough to be considered your first guy in off the bench in rush situations) - 6.5 sacks, 14 pressures, 7 tackles for loss (not asking him to match the 2 interceptions).
I just don't see how he has that sort of impact. He could barely move out there.
Yes, I think he gets at least that production.
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Does this team actually have the guts to move on from Tre White?
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
The technique has already worked and quickly for a number of players.
Plus the team only saves about $6m if they cut him. Doubt you find a replacement corner at his level for that money