BillsFan4

Except that Tim Murray still had Craig Patrick, the guy LaFontaine brought in to help him learn how to run a team. Murray could have chose to use him as a resource. But from all accounts he didn't use him at all. I even heard (on the instagators) that Patrick eventually stopped even bothering to come in anymore because he wasn't being used at all. It's sure not Pegula's fault that Tim Murray had those resources and chose not to use them... There was also a lot of stuff written after Lafontaine left about how a big reason why was because PL didn't like that Murray was reporting directly to the Pegula's and was also making moves/trades lafontaine didn't agree with. I've even heard Tim Murray say that he took this job (and was hired) to be a GM and make those types of decisions. So I'm not sure he felt that being a GM was more than he was hired for. Having someone over Tim Murray's head seemed to be a problem (or at least it was with Lafontaine and Patrick (who just wasn't used)). So Pegula could have forced someone else onto him, but what type of working relationship would that have resulted in? Murray had a pretty damn strong personality (and a bit of an ego). Or I guess he could have just fired Murray after being on the job for all of 2 months. Or he could let Tim Murray be the GM, give him some time and evaluate him on it. It appears Pegula chose the latter.

Does anyone have a link to the Sirius XM interview with Whaley, or do you need a subscription to listen to it?

What a useless article that was. They picked out 2 sentences of a 17 minute interview. Not even a link to that SiriusXM show or anything... All that article did was leave me hunting for the whole interview, or at least an article with more of it. Here's one that had a lot more substance. Still looking for a link to the entire interview on SiriusXM if anyone has one. I'm going to keep looking too. http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/05/everything_doug_whaley_said_in_first_interview_since_buffalo_bills_fired_him.html

Getting blown out in the playoffs means that we actually MADE the playoffs, so I'd take it as a first step for a team that hasnt seen the post season in 17 years. I don't see any scenario where the Bills go from never making the playoffs to playing in the Super Bowl in a single season... So playoffs sound like a good starting point to me. Also, Kansas City spent 4 years with Alex Smith, building up their entire team and having back to back successful seasons before they finally decided to take a shot on a QB high in the draft going into their 5th season. John Dorsey and Andy Reid did not address the QB position in any meaningful way (in the draft) until they were going into their 5th year with the team. They built up the rest of the team first, and got to a point where they knew they had to take a shot at a QB to likely make it any further.

I wonder if the Bills made an offer? Maybe they low balled him? If Buffalo does have an offer on the table, it sure doesn't sound like he's going to take it.

I was almost going to start a new thread for this, but I remembered about using the search function first... Didn't want to get in trouble! lol j/k Vic Carucci just finished his 3rd (of 3) excerpts on Wade Phillips book "Son of Bum". It is well worth a read. Here are the links to all 3 parts, and just a few excerpts I found interesting (especially the one about Wade reporting directly to Ralph Wilson and working hand in hand with John Butler to pick players) - http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/05/defensive-plan-91-afc-title-game-plenty-convince-bills-hire-phillips/ http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/12/phillips-negotiating-ralph-wilson-went-beyond-contracts/ http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/19/phillips-dealing-quarterback-change-wrong-kind-miracle/ 'Bruce was so quick and so athletic. What he did really well was just bend, getting low enough that even as tall as he was at six foot four, he could beat a guy around the corner before the guy could get his feet in front of him. He could just go under their hands. They’d try punching at him and he’d duck and go around them. It was like watching an Olympic runner going around the curve perfectly and then running down the straightaway right to the quarterback.' 'Ralph gave me the additional title of vice president of football operations. He wanted me to answer directly to him rather than the GM. That wasn’t a problem with John. We worked great together on everything – picking the roster, drafting players, signing free agents.' 'They said we had a divided locker room, with some the older guys wanting Doug to start and the younger guys being behind Rob. I didn’t think it was that big of a deal, but the media obviously did. Ralph picked a side as well after we played Washington in our last preseason game that summer. Flutie played and drove us the length of the field at the end of the game for the winning points. Afterward, Ralph came up to me in the training room, with lots of people around us, and said, “This Flutie, we’ve got to get rid of him. He can’t play!” “Mr. Wilson, he took us on a ninety-nine-yard drive for a touchdown to win the game,” I said. “I don’t care, I don’t care. He ran the ball, he was running with it sometimes". "But that’s what it takes. That’s the great thing about him. He can make plays whether he’s throwing it or running with it or pitching it out to somebody or anything.” “Oh, I don’t like him.” ".... Then, Bruce DeHaven, our special-teams coach who had been with the Bills a long time, came up to me and said, “You want to kick it deep?” “Yeah,” I said. He came up with another suggestion. “Why don’t we bloop kick it?” “Oh, okay 'But what we did was completely the opposite, because we blooped it down the middle. Lorenzo Neal caught Steve’s kick and handed off to Frank Wycheck, who threw the ball across the field to Kevin Dyson who ran down the sidelines 75 yards for a touchdown. The officials said it was a legal lateral, but I was standing right across from where Wycheck threw the ball and I know it was an illegal forward pass. I said, “Well, they’re going to call it back, because we’ve got instant replay.” In fact, I was so sure they would overturn it, I was thinking ahead to the clock needing to be reset to when the penalty occurred. I figured that would still only leave them enough time for one play, so we needed to get our prevent defense ready. When the official came back and said, “The ruling on the field stands,” I just lost it. I took off my headset and threw it on the ground. All the air just went out of me. “Oh, God,” was the only thing I could say.'

I hadn't heard/read anything on Whaley being high on Mahomes. The only thing I read about him was that he was "in love" with Watson and knowing the QBs Whaley drafted (or had interest in) in the past I felt him loving Watson was pretty believable. Ma homes just doesn't seem like the type of QB Whaley would be high on, but who knows. That'd definitely be interesting if true, which is why I was so interested to read it for myself. I did read about Pegula liking Mahomes though, which I could buy. and also that thing about Whaley trading back being the last straw (which I did not believe either, it seemed like total BS to me).

Do you have any links to this stuff? I'd be interested to read em. Thanks.

Still kind of seems to me like McDermott is betting against Tyrod being his future QB. I don't think they cut 3 years off the guy's contract just because Tyrod said he was open to a restructure and because they felt obligated to save money. Sure, they saved money This Year, but his salary cap hit next year is already higher than it was under his previous 5 year contract, and if he establishes himself as a true franchise QB his cap hit in 2019 and beyond is likely going to be much higher than it was under his previous 5 year deal (whether that's on a new deal, or using the franchise tag). IMO, if McDermott was truly betting on Tyrod being The Guy, he'd have picked up his option that essentially only tied Tyrod to the Bills for 2-3 years anyway (hen his dead cap would be palatable). But now he's only essentially tied to the Bills for this year only. Cutting him next year costs $8M to save $10M. I'm not saying that he will be cut, just that he can be. If he truly believes Tyrod is likely the franchise QB, he made a poor, short sighted move IMO. But personally, I think he's betting against Tyrod being the guy. Edit - maybe I shouldn't say betting against. But I think they're betting more against him being the guy than betting for... If you remember me from BBMB, you know I am a Tyrod fan. I argued for him to start over EJ. I argued to keep him, and I've argued that he has ran this (top 10 scoring) offense much better than he gets credit for by some. I also don't think he's as easily replaceable as some think, otherwise we'd have had a QB as good as him in these last 12+ years. I am excited to see what Tyrod does this year, and I still think he has a chance to be our long term solution at QB. I am just trying to look at the situation as realistically as I can. I'd love it if TT proves to be our future QB, though.

I haven't felt this type of confidence in what the Bills are doing in, well, I can't remember when... It's been a very long time. I don't expect things to turn around next season. But I do finally feel like things are headed in the right direction. I love the way both the HC and GM have filled out their staff. It's been impressive IMO. That was good interview. I am left more and more impressed every time I hear this guy talk. What a change... I liked how he said that he won't just fill a job because it's open. He said they will make due this season without a director of college scouting if they don't get one of the guy's they want.

Was Allen still under contract with KC? Or was he available? Is this a demotion in title? Seems like it to me. Director of college scouting to national scout? I was kind of expecting him to be named director of college scouting here... Anyway, just curious. Definitely happy with the hire.

Damn, what is it with Bills 2nd round picks (that they trade up for) and knee injuries? Hope Zay is ok...

Can't really say I know much of anything about him but it seems like it could be a good hire... That is what I was thinking/hoping too. I was glad when I seen this guy was just the asst. Gave me hope Allen is still coming here.

This is pretty much the point I am at. As I'm sure you remember, this whole Tyrod Taylor "war" has been going on since BBMB (it got WAY out of hand there), and now it has spilled over to here, with a lot of the same people on both sides arguing back and forth. It's absolutely pointless to just keep arguing at this point. Nobody on either side is going to change their minds no matter what is said, that much is clear. I got dragged into it at BBMB, to the point where I was discussing it almost daily. But I've reached the point now where I hardly ever enter into the TT discussion and if I do I say my piece once or twice and I'm done. (I am pro Tyrod Taylor, BTW as you might remember from BBMB). It's just pointless, it really is. I really like this place and I absolutely do not want to see it devolve into what the BBMB had become at the end. The thing is, we are all just fans anyway. We have zero influence in what the team does. What does it matter if other fans don't agree? I tell ya though - it's a lot easier now to just sit back and let things play out now that I feel like we have a very competent crew at OBD running things. I had little faith left in Whaley to address the QB position.

Another great hire (on paper) by Beane. Future is looking bright.

Simple question for you man. Not trying to start an argument or anything... Why do you think McDermott decided not to pick up Tyrod's 5 year contract (that would have been very reasonable cap hit for a guy viewed as a franchise QB), and instead gave him a 2 year deal that allows the Bills to move on after this season with only $8M dead cap? If he were truly convinced that Tyrod is the future QB, why did he kind of bet against him by shortening the contract? If Tyrod proved to be the franchise QB, it will most likely cost a lot more to keep him now.

Huge hire if true! We are putting together an all star front office IMO. How can anyone be complaining over these hires? Or saying "more of the same"? I can see being unsure of Beane at first, and what his role was vs McDermott. But hiring Schoen, Gaine and now Allen... I just don't see any way that they are just "yes men" to McDermott. They are all WAY too well respected around the NFL to come here and not have actual input into the players we pick. IMO They wouldn't have taken this job if that were the case. I am thrilled with this front office staff. So far I couldn't have asked for more. I know it's early yet, but so far I think this is looking like the best front office staff we've had in decades. Obviously we have to wait and see what they do in Buffalo, but all of these guys have a good track record of identifying talent (especially Gaine and Allen, who I'm more familiar with than Schoen)

Really? I don't see it. Switch Yates and Cardale, and I see that as the most likely outcome. Not that I wouldn't love if Cardale could grab the #2 spot. I would. IMO I just think he is so much farther behind Peterman in his development (even though this is his 2nd year here) that I can't see him beating him out, let alone both Peterman and Yates. I think Cardale's in for a big fight to even make this roster. Having Tyrod, Peterman & Cardale (or Cardale and peterman) earn the top 3 spots would be what's best for the Bills future. So that's definitely what I'm rooting for.

That's a damn good point. Also, maybe his trust (or lack there of) in Whaley and his scouting staff's evaluations played a part, too. And if he knew Whaley was out the door right after the draft, maybe he didn't want a new GM coming in and being tied to a top 10 QB pick that he had no part in making.

IIRC Kraft gave Belichick full control of the entire football operations when he was hired in 2000 and he has been the de-facto GM ever since. Belichick then chose to hire Scott Pioli to help him out. So he had much more power than McDermott when he was hired in NE. Belichick has always had control over the football operations with the Patriots. Kraft immediately gave him a ton of power.

This guy is well respected, so I trust what he says - Neil Stratton @InsideTheLeague "Had heard this was coming. Seemed unlikely due to lateral move, but league sources made it clear Gaine was seeking a fresh start w/#Bills. " Sounds like maybe he was ready to move on from the Texans, plus wanted to be a part of the Bills. I also heard Beane on the Nohn Murphy show today. He said they are going to give Gaine even more responsibility than what he had in Houston. He said they plan to help Gaine grow and, basically, ready himself even more for a GM job. He did also get a raise and a promotion. So I'm sure it was a lot of things that factored in.

Oh, I wasn't trying to say it will be some big, open competition. I think Tyrod is the starter unless/until someone legitimately Takes the starting job from him. I don't see it being an open competition like in 2015 when TT earned the job. I think Tyrod will run with the 1's. I was just speaking to that stuff about him saying Tyrod is our QB of the future. I think that is still very much TBD, and I don't think McDermott is settled on him being the Bills QB of the future. I think unless Tyrod unequivocally locks down that starting job and leaves absolutely no doubt that he is the franchise QB of the future, they will be looking hard at drafting a QB high in next year's draft. Look at it this way Transplant - if he were so sure that Tyrodmis the Bills future QB, then why did they insist on re-negotiating Tyrod's long term deal? You'd think he'd want Tyrod,locked in for 5 years on a very reasonable starter salary. But instead they made it a 2 year prove it deal that kind of bets against Tyrod and allows the Bills to walk away after this season if they really want to. If he does very well, he will be making more per year then he would have on that long term deal and it will likely end up costing the Bills more than it would have if they just picked up that deal.

Yeah I don't see it as an issue at all. I couldn't be more excited about this Gaine hire. I just seen it continue to get brought up, which is why I posted that article. The Texans were desperate for a QB. And who knows, had Jimmy Sexton given Elway the chance to match that Texans offer, he may have done so. He was offering $16.5M per year on a multi year deal, then the Texans offered $18M and Sexton took it without giving Elway the chance to match it (according to that article). Like you said though, I think Osweiler wanted out of Denver.

To be fair though, he also said that the Bills has their #2 wide receiver on the roster before the draft. Then they traded up to get Zay Jones. Tyrod may be his guy, or it may just be that pretty common "coach speak". I think it will really be up to Tyrod, and what he does on the field this year. As well as what Peterman/Cardale do behind him. Plus where we pick in the draft, which QBs are available to us and how much McDermott/Beane (etc) like those QBs will also play a part, unless a QB on the roster really take a strangle hold on the starting job and leave little doubt that they are our franchise guy. Like Beane said today, they will continue turning over every rock for a QB if there is any doubt as to whether or not they have their franchise guy.

Here's a good article breaking down how Osweiler was acquired, and what I felt were some of the key points - http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texans/article/Osweiler-acquisition-began-in-film-room-ended-6886807.php 'O'Brien and Smith had agreed from the beginning that if there was a chance the Texans could get Osweiler, they would vigorously pursue him.' "Rick did a heck of a job," Bob McNair said. "He said, 'I'm going to get you a quarterback. Regardless as to where he might come from, we're going to get you a quarterback". '... Smith and members of his personnel department were scouting college quarterbacks and preparing their reports for the coaches, who would check them out after the season. Brian Gaine, who serves as the director of player personnel, oversees the pro department. Part of his responsibility is to compile scouting reports on players in the last year of their contracts and present them to Smith.' '... O'Brien took off a couple of days before returning to the film room. First, he evaluated each of the Texans. Then, he turned to prospective free agents and watched tape before filing his report with Smith. When O'Brien finished, Osweiler was at the top of his list of quarterbacks.' '... Smith brought in his scouts from around the country. They set their draft board. Then, Smith, O'Brien and the assistant coaches reviewed the analysis of each prospective free agent prepared by Gaine and his staff. They decided how they wanted to attack free agency - what players Smith was going to pursue when the legal tampering period began March 7, two days before the start of the new league year when free agents could sign with other teams. To make sure they were on the same page, Smith and O'Brien went to the film room and watched hours of tape on the 6-8, 240-pound Osweiler. "We came out of the film room agreeing that Brock Osweiler was the quarterback to lead us where we want to go," Smith said.' So it sounds to me that all Gaine did was help put together a scouting report on Osweiler and any other potential free agent (which is what his job entailed). It sounded like it was mostly all Rick Smith and Bill O'Brien to me. From what I've read (in this article and others) Rick Smith was hellbent on getting Bill O'Brien a QB for that following season, and him and BOB decided pretty early on that Osweiler was the one they wanted. They agreed months before that if he hit free agency that they pursue him hard.