Kirby Jackson
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Posts posted by Kirby Jackson
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If Watkins ever slipped to 5 or 6 and you only had to give up 9 & 41 absolutely. The problem is that it is looking more and more likely that he will come off the board at 2.
Realistically Evans is probably the target at 9. I was against it at 1st but have warmed to it a little.
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Cash, I counted Gonzalez instead of the rookies. I guess that I would put ASJ & Ebron (maybe Amaro) on otherwise and take Gonzo off. I was trying to give Chandler the benefit of the doubt. I just think that some of those other guys have more ability and less opportunity. There are some (like Fleener) that I would trade Chandler for without blinking and then others (Pettigrew or Daniels) that you could go either way on.
He is what he is. Chandler is a mediocre TE with limited athletic ability and a big frame. You could do worse (the Bills have) but you could easily do better. Great post though!!
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I am really not trying to be antagonistic. I admittedly am not a big fan of Chandler so I want to know if I am being overly harsh on him. I just couldn't justify putting him ahead of any of those other 23 and then there are guys like DIckson, Zach Miller and Pettigrew that could all be considered ahead of him.He's trying to make a case that the Bills are all set with Chandler as their starting TE and he failed. Notice that when I pointed out Chandler has scored a measly 4 TDs in the last 30 games he stopped responding to my posts?
Any Bills fan who is accepting of that kind of production from for our TE position is plain and simply delusional. Chandler is a bottom of the barrel NFL starter. The Bills and specifically their 1st rd QB pick EJ Manuel deserve to get the best TE they can this offseason. It's not Scott Chandler, hopefully they draft Eric Ebron who will become one of the best TEs in the NFL.
The criteria is would you trade Chandler straight up for that guy? If you could get Jermaine Gresham for Chandler would you (for example)? Not factoring in salary cap or anything else to get messy. Simply would you rather Chandler or ___The only problem with that is Chandler has outperformed many of the TE's you have rated higher over the past few years. I am not sure I understand your criteria.
Chandler is certainly not elite. He is average to above average. He lacks speed certainly. I would love for the Bills to have an elite TE, but compared to the other FA options this year once Graham and Pitta were locked up, I am fine with Chandler. Finley could be the exception, but he may or may not be healthy, and who knows if wanted to even leave GB. I would rather the Bills focus the draft on a potential #1 WR, OT, OG in that order, and resigning Chandler allows them to do that.
As to TD production, do you think the QB position may have a bit to do with that?
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That's what I was getting at. I really tried to be objective. There may be a few that you could argue Chandler over but you'd have to be wearing your Bills goggles to get anywhere close to 12.are there 12 on kirbys earlier posted list that you dont think are better? genuinely curious if you are going just on gut or looking at the names
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Am I the only one not ecstatic about this? I think that he is a good run stuffing LB but its not like when Takeo came. This guy is limited and can help the run D. I would expect him to improve the run D in a similar manner to the way that Lawson improved the pass d.
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I don't disagree that it is unlikely in the 1st. My question was where would you rank Chandler as an NFL TE? You seem to like him more than some. I have him at 24.Whats wrong with (hoping to) having a great TE found in FA and a good TE already on the team?
seriously guys
http://sportsillustr...0386/index.html
from the (AP) - Scott Chandler is returning to Buffalo, where he spent the past three seasons establishing himself as the Bills' top pass-catching tight end.
Chandler is coming off a year in which he set career highs with 53 catches and 655 yards.
12th in the NFL in yards (which to some sucks) - w/ lets say 20 teams worse off.
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Hoping to find a great TE in the draft on day 1 is IMO a reach. The draft is a crapshoot, sometimes you strike it rich
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Not necessarily, it depends where the students saw him. He may very well be in town. Kolb took his physical 2-3 days before anyone in the national media even reported that he was in town.i didn't read the twitter thread so does this make the rumors false?
He's the general team doctor.Psychiatrist??
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It would be at Dr. White's office (it's either at Buff General or ECMC). They send everyone for physicals regardless of if they have a deal or not. The physical actually takes place before the visit and negotiation (at least for the Bills).
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I don't disagree at all. I think Moeaki is the same way. He was on the verge of being really good. I remember Peter King writing about him right before he got hurt. I would venture to say that at least 1 of them would be good to go.finley couldve been a pretty big boom or bust one would be my only counterpoint - chandler sets a floor that finley might not wherever he ends up, despite the potential (likelihood, even) to be better than chandler.
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I don't want to speak for everyone and despite Whaley's comments I think that they are now content at TE. If they have a chance to upgrade maybe they will but I would not at all be surprised if the TE group is now set.I give the Bills as much **** as anyone on this board, but how can you be upset at this?
Very solid player for us and if anything, he provides depth at the position.
While Chandler is okay I guess in no way is the football team any better. If Moeaki is healthy The TE group is better but if not it is still one of the weakest position groups on the team. They had chances to upgrade (and I am not talking about Jimmy Graham) but someone like Jermichael Finley could have improved a weak position. That's how I view it anyways.
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This is not meant to be antagonistic so I apologize if it comes off that way but where do you rank Chandler in terms of tight ends? I have my list above of the 23 guys that I have ahead of him and I am just curious to see where someone that likes him ranks him. I am not a big fan of Scott Chandler's but I tried to approach it objectively. I would trade Chandler 1 for 1 for any guy on that list now. There are others that with the opportunity could be added as well (ie Ed Dickson) & then some that with age could fall off (ie Heath Miller).do you realize what they were the year before with Fitz? In the first 4 weeks the Bills lead the NFL in red zone efficiency? guess who the TE was.
do you realize what they were one of the last 2 teams to score over 20 ppg on in the the first 4 weeks of the year?
do you realize its a team effort and that also involves coaching / play calling?
Like what Dorkington wrote. He's NOT the best, but he's FAR from the worst.
your assumption is that I don't want the best TE. You are wrong. The truth of it is ... I'm not delusional enough to expect it.
so please read my post again - get over it.
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Exactly6-10
and like i said upthread, under gailey we did have chandler quality players at a lot of positions...
exactly - and i bet you wouldnt stray toooo far if you had to rank our #1 WR, and our qb hasnt proven better than that yet.... if we upgrade the passing game talent, and it helps EJ come into his own we will see a much bigger jump than anywhere else we could commit resources today.
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By my list above I believe that there are 23 NFL TEs that I would rather have than him. That would mean that they would have the 9th worst record and be picking 9 in the dra--wait a minute...Question: If the Bills had a Scott Chandler caliber player at every position, what would their 16 game season record be?
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I don't disagree but I would say that you could have inserted: Finley, Garrett Graham or Owen Daniels and upgraded. Just because Chandler is/was your best TE doesn't mean he's good. TE is certainly a lesser need now than it was but I'd have rather taken a shot on someone like Ed Dickson that i think has more natural ability.And that is the most important point. We're a better team with Chandler and a draft pick, then say... Gragg and a draft pick next year. It's simple, if you want to build you have to keep your better players and add to them.
Don't get me wrong, Chandler is not Colin Brown. He is a mediocre football player. If Moeaki is healthy they are actually better at that position than they were but it is still one of the weakest position groups on the team.
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I think that he has had a lot of opportunities as well. Here is my list of TE that I would rather have (in no particular order): J. Graham, G. Graham, Gronk, Gates, Gresham, Gonzalez (maybe we need a TE that's last name starts with a "G"), Pitta, Witten, Daniels, Rudolph, Eiffert, Cameron, Thomas, Charles Clay, Greg Olsen, Reed, Miller, Ertz, Bennett, Finley, Fleener, Cook, and Davis. That's 23 by my count (including Gonzalez but not the rookies) that I would trade Chandler straight up for.Some posters act like it's easy to just go out and grab an elite TE in free agency...it isn't. There are 32 teams in the league and only a small handful of elite TEs (maybe 5-6 of them)
and teams tend to hold on to those guys.
Now, by no means with this post am I saying Scott is up there with the elite guys, but someone said (rather than compare him to past Bills TEs) compare him to his peers. OK
In 2 of the last 3 years Chandler was top 10 in TDs (7th and 8th). He had a down year last year, but think of who was throwing the ball to him.
Last year he was 13th in receptions and 12th in yards (despite the low TD total). The year before (2012) he was 14th in yards.
Percentage of catches to targets for the last 3 years compared to some elite guys:
Chandler caught 65% of the balls thrown to him in 2013, 58% in 2012, and 82% in 2011.
Graham caught 58% of the balls thrown to him in 2013, 62% in 2012, and 66% in 2011.
Gronk caught 59% in 2013, 69% in 2012, and 72% in 2011
And yes, his fumble in the Atlanta game was huge, but he averages 1.3 fumbles per season.
So, let's put to rest the "he can't hang on to the ball myth."
And let's not forget, for as good as those elite TEs actually are, some of them also have a certain advantage:
Gronk, Hernandez (Brady)
Graham (Brees)
D. Clark, J. Thomas (Manning)
A. Gates (Rivers)
Witten (Romo)
Chandler (Fitz, Manuel, Thad, Tuel)
Tony G. is probably the only elite guy that has done it without stellar QB play (although Flynn over the last 2 years isn't too shabby)
And then there is opportunity. While Chandler was targeted 81 times last year, Graham was targeted 142 times,
Gonzales 120 times, Witten 111 times, J. Cameron 118 times, A. Gates 113 times. If Scott had 30 to 60 more targets,
his numbers would be a lot better.
Again, by no means am I saying he is or ever will be elite, like some of those guys, but over the last 3 years he has
probably hovered around the 12th to 15th best TE in the league (by stats). And what if he had Brady or Manning throwing to him instead?
He'd probably be higher than that. Everyone would love an elite TE, but how many of those 10 or so guys significantly better than Chandler were actually
available to upgrade with for next season? If we didn't resign Chandler, our TE position would definitely have been worse next year.
Every position on the team can't have an elite pro-bowler, no team can afford that, so don't knock those solid guys in the
top half or third of their position, we need them.
Anyhow...very happy to see most people are positive on this resigning. Glad to have you back Scott!
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The problem is that his drops exceeded his broken tackles.He is so terrible. He got targeted 82 times in 2013, made 53 catches and dropped 4 EFFING PASSES! READ THAT AGAIN. HE DROPPED 4 PASSES ALL SEASON! SJ13 on the other hand got targeted 101 times made 51 catches and dropped 7 catches! TARGETED 101 times and only catch 51. OUCH!
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Just looking for logical explanations as to why the position has always been bad. We then settle on mediocrity (Chandler, Riemersma, even Metzelaars) because they are better than Derek Fine and Tim Euhus. It's just kind of odd.If overdorf gets down to setting firm positional caps and not our gms, that would roughly be on par with a TE scout with the name Wilson. And be incredibly frustrating.
I'd argue it'd still be "overdorf hates tight ends" not "bills hate tight ends" but at this point it's hard to seperate "overdorf/littman" from "bills"
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Its more of a lack of emphasis from an organizational standpoint. It could have to do with Overdorf's philosophy? If we are still using that % of the cap number that you and I have been discussing TE has been a low % for sure. That can always change but they have been content to get low level FA or mid-late round guys at that position.And I'm not sure how a franchise can be bad at it for 20 years. An evaluator might be but unless we have a specialized tight end scout with the last name Wilson, or there's something about the water in buffalo.... It's a bit puzzling that the bills are bad at it and not Donahue, levy, butler etc....
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So since the Bills are bad at drafting TEs (even though they don't emphasize it) we should be happy to have a mediocre player that makes big mistakes?But not us. Have you forgotten the horror show of our TE drafting in the last 15 years?
Let me remind us all:
2013 -7- Chris Gragg
2009 -4- Shawn Nelson
2008 -4- Derek Fine
2007 -7- Derek Schouman
2005 -3- Kevin Everett (medical miracle, but terrible NFL tight end)
2004 -4- Tim Euhus
It doesn't get much better for the 10 years before that with 8 tight ends drafted
"High"lights:
1996 -7- Jay Riemersma
1994 -2- Lonnie "fricken" Johnson
14 tight ends drafted in 20 years with only Jay R worth a hoot. Since we got Chandler we've only had to throw 1 7th round pick away in 4 years.
I'm quite happy having Mr. Chandler thank you very much.
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Perfectly said!! He's a guy that will never be better than average because of his physical limitations. They bring him in so that they can be below average at the position & then never upgrade because they have someone that even those defending him call him "competent" to play TE. It's a vicious cycle of mediocrity (or slightly below mediocrity).Scott Chandler is the personification of 6-10. I'm not impressed.
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Not a fan, I was hoping for someone like Ed Dickson instead
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There's your hammer for the goal line.
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If they can't get Vince, I am sure that Bianca Wilfork could hold up at the line of scrimmage and keep blockers off of the LBs.
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Thats true but look at their roster. How many guys on that Raiders team would start for the Bills? 3 or 4 (an 1 is Austin Howard ho has been there for 1 day). That is awful.I don't think we are in a position to start a "Only in Oakland" topic. They have made the playoffs more recently than the Bills.
Sammy Watkins, worth trading up for? What cost?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Supposedly the Bills are enamored with Watkins. If they can get up there to get him without having to sacrifice next year's first then go for it. I'm not sold on EJ personally so I would hate to not have a 1st and potentially need a QB in 2015. They still need to address RT (unless they believe Hairston is ready). Otherwise a dynamic skill player is the biggest need. Watkins and the BPA the rest of the way (primarily on offense).