Kirby Jackson
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Posts posted by Kirby Jackson
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There is a saying, "a bad plan perfectly executed is better than a perfect plan executed like ****." K-9 has a legit point. Wannstedt's plan may have sucked, but his players gave up on it.
I think that we are all in agreement that it was a poor plan executed poorly. Those of us arguing that Wanny was the biggest problem believe that he is the one most responsible for making the changes necessary to improve. We all agree that he didn't do anything well. My take is that the person with the most responsibility doing nothing right makes him the biggest problem. How can someone be deemed worse? The question at the start is "who did more than Wanny to screw this up"?
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K-9 admitted that there is not one thing that he liked about Wanny defense. The man with the most power on the defense did nothing well yet there are people with more blame for the d? I don't understand; I am over this conversation.
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I don't maintain that Wanny ever did anything right. Just that his players did more things wrong.
I can certainly understand, from a coaching perspective, how he was hamstrung from doing certain things more often given the dearth of talent in the back 7 and having an absolute sieve in the run game on the right side. I know, from a coaching perspective, that it's difficult to play ANY 43 scheme when you don't have ONE starting caliber LB on your squad that can play all three downs effectively. It's extremely difficult to play certain zone schemes when your SS can't be trusted to be much help in coverage. Gilmore and Williams paid dearly for that liability.
I know, he just shoulda blitzed more. This place makes me laugh.
GO BILLS!!!
When these things weren't working should he have tried something different? That is my biggest issue with him period. It was broke and he never tried to fix it. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
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Well, Anderson was injured so it was Moore by default. And you make my point as well, not enough talented players to plug in. But at least Moore could rush the passer. We had LBs that were equally as bad in both facets of the game.
No offense, but your second paragraph is not something I can agree with. No team lines up and wins because they are physically better? I honestly don't know how to respond to that. Better I just let it go.
GO BILLS!!!
I would have played Carrington at DE (where he played in college).
I was referring to Wanny's philosophy to get pressure by rushing 4. I think that d line has talent but you do not win with talent alone. Teams scheme around your talent. There is a reason that the new staff is moving Mario all over the place. They are trying to create mismatches. 9 times out of 10 he is going to be better than the guy that he lines up against but if they know where he is coming from they can use a TE or a back to help out. You win based on a combination of talent and scheme. The talent was average and better than it had been in years on that side of the ball. It was not great but it was much better than the scheme.
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It's not a question of how long the CBs had to sustain their coverage. It's a question of leaving them exposed in single coverage for ANY length of time when they weren't convincing anyone they had the ability to be left alone, especially Williams. And while Gilmore improved tremendously, he was a confused looking player and had major trouble early in the year. Totally fooled by combination routes and had little help from his safeties as well.
But I'll play devil's advocate and ask you to give me your blitz schemes. Who do you send and where and in what game situation? And you can only use the personnel we had last season.
GO BILLS!!!
Absolutely. He was the DE equivalent of a 2 down LB only he was a 1 down player. So, how should Wanny have schemed his D to cover for Moore's obvious deficiencies in the run game? Feel free to draw it up. Last year's players only, please.
GO BILLS!!!
I wouldn't have had him on the field except in OBVIOUS passing situations!! You are making the point for me.
His schemes were so outdated. The advancements in prep,video, and free agency has increased the importance of deception. There is not a team in the league that wins that just lines up and wins because they are physically better. If they know where you are going to be they adjust pre snap and go where you are not.
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I need to go no further than the bold text. Not one playmaking, 3 down LB on the squad last year. That is just not acceptable in today's game and AGAIN, is not something you can simply scheme your way around. Would have been interesting had the Panthers not taken Keuchly as that's the guy Wanny wanted more than anyone else in the draft.
Kyle Moore did more to keep the D on the field than any other players given his total inability to play the run. The WORST run-defending DE I've ever seen in a Bills uniform and that's going back to my earliest recollections of '65.
And once again, I am not defending Wanny. I'm merely saying that too many players were worse at their jobs than he was at his. But it's comforting to know believe we had good players at SS, LB, and weakside DE instead. That's just a refusal to accept what was blatantly obvious on film all year.
GO BILLS!!!
So to answer the original question, "Kyle Moore did more to screw this team up than Dave Wannstedt"?
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Wilson, Barnett, Sheppard, Moats, Bradham, Moore. Gilmore was vicitmized early on but improved. Having two raw CBs really hamstrung whatever scheme flexibility Wanny was hoping for, especially when he saw how bad his back 7 really was. I've already mentioned how piss poor LB play really had an impact on the amount of stunts and other games he may have wanted to run with his DL packages.
Perhaps Wanny WAS too conservative but we'll never know for sure because he had ample reason to play it safe given the shortcomings of so many players, especially his LBs as a group. I'm amazed at how little appreciation people have for that.
GO BILLS!!!
A 2 down LB, passing rushing specialist, etc... have nowhere near the influence that a d coordinator has. That's like saying that the RG has a bigger impact than a bad QB. They are just not the same. Kyle Moore did a better job at being a part time pass rusher than Dave Wannstedt did as designing an entire defense. By this logic you would answer the initial question by saying, "No, Kyle Moore did more to screw the team up last year"?
The defending of him is absurd!! He was as bad at his job as anyone that the Bills have had in any role in the last decade (and that is saying something).
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90/10, players/Wanny. Is that better?
GO BILLS!!!
With the possible exception of Aaron Williams who on the defense was worse at their job than Wanny?
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I like the Pats in week 1. The TEs are banged up and they have some new targets for Brady
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QFT. If you don't already have tickets lined up, expect to pay through the nose through the secondary market.
PTR
You will find them as low as $50-$60 upstairs and $100-$150 downstairs. I do it 3-4 times a year when they do not play at the same time as the Bills.
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Yeah I did see that thanks for the heads up. By big I mean like 10-14ish. If we can't be exactly together no biggie but will obviously try and group them as close together as possible.
Yeah I did see that thanks for the heads up. By big I mean like 10-14ish. If we can't be exactly together no biggie but will obviously try and group them as close together as possible.
Tickets wont be too hard to come by. You may not all be together but you wont have any issue getting tickets.
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Who would you guys like to see in the opener?
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(Last 8 games only 3 are home)
Bills rumored to open season at home against Cleveland
I LIKE
I don't think that this is correct
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boom goes the thread
If you would rather wait and see I will not be offended.
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source?
Reliable
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Bills in New Orleans 10/27
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I am just blown away people are defending Wanny!! What's next a thread about how tough Trent Edwards is or what an explosive punt catcher Chris Watson was?
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This thread is confusing. It feels like someone is actually defending the job that Wanny did? The guy was the WORST ever. He did have some talent and pumped out stretches that were as bad as ANY TEAM EVER!! The game and prep are so much different than when he was good. He was either too stubborn or too stupid to adjust. I find it actually mind blowing that anyone would even try to defend the job he did.
At the time of the hire I was actually excited about it. That was until I talked with a friend who is a die hard Pitt fan. He was talking about how vanilla his schemes were. He was right. Wannstedt's defense was pretty much the equivalent of Jauron's offense.
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If you need to believe it wasn't the players, so be it. But when players consistently miss plays they are in position to make, that's on the players. When your players are getting beat one on one at the POA, that's not the scheme. When players can't execute basic defensive schemes, no amount of "disguising" them and making things more complicated as a result, is going to work. It was interesting to see Wanny actually dumb it down as the season progressed. That's what coaches have to do in order to simplify things for players that can't handle their assignments. Not that it mattered.
GO BILLS!!!
I disagree with your basic premise; they were not put in a position to succeed. It is like giving someone a head start in a race and then losing. You can say that you were not fast enough but in reality it is not easy when someone else has a head start. That is what he did with his 1992 vanilla 4-3. The game preparation has evolved way too much for that.
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I read the title as Wanny being the most inept. I agree with that. He was worse at his job than Buddy or Chan were at theirs. He had some talent and failed.
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I just hope that Buddy doesn't plan on depending on Easley. If he turns out to be a surprise -great. I have zero confidence that will happen but I hope I'm wrong.
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I think with the way rookie salary caps are established, it is fairly easy in today's NFL to take QBs in the 1st round in back-to-back years. That is why I think Cleveland will be part of the QB Derby this year. They can deal with a Weeden as a bust.
That is why I used the same staff line. They may take a new QB but they are an entirely different organization than last draft. I don't think the owner was even there yet. No coach is going to latch himself to a QB and need a new one in a season. Look at Rex still stuck with Sanchez. Coaches link themselves to the guys that they believe to be franchise guys and fairly it unfairly that ultimately determines their fate.
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I agree 100% with everything on here except the person whose biggest issue is MW. This was the least imaginative, vanilla defense in history. Teams disguise more in the Pro Bowl than Wanny did. He was the problem!! In today's NFL you don't just line up and win with the best personnel. Qbs survey the field and adjust at the line based on what they see. It is a defense's job to show them something that they THINK they see. He was outschemed constantly. It's a chess match and unfortunately Wannstedt didn't know how to play.
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If you are looking for a big surprise I will throw Kenny Vaccaro out there. They LOVED Barron last year and may think that they need another safety regardless of Byrd's future. I am not interested in this because there are some guys that I like in the next tier (especially Reid and Elam). If we are looking for someone a little off the radar I think that Vacarro is more likely than pash rusher and OL.
Did anyone $&^@ this team more last year than Dave Wannstedt?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
We just disagree. I do not believe that a situational pass rusher should take more blame for the defense's failures than the guy that designed the D. I had no problem with any of the players that they let go. I think that they were all good decisions. I just think that Wanny is more responsible for the situation getting to the point that it got to. No hard feelings, we all want the same thing. Hopefully 2013 will produce the results that we all wanted in '12!!