Kirby Jackson

I understood the PSL argument from the start. The part that I’m hung up on is why are you trying so hard to differentiate a PSL from any other ticketing fee that you pay as a “right to buy the ticket?” That’s obviously way more common when you’re talking about standalone events like a concert or show. You’re paying someone for the right to buy that seat. It’s the same thing. It just lines someone’s pockets as opposed to funding a portion of stadiums (although sometimes it does fund a portion of the stadium). I guess the other part that I’m hung up on is, “why do you have an issue with PSLs when the people using the product are the one’s electing to purchase?” I have 2 club seats and plan to continue in a similar capacity. It is my choice whether or not to continue. Do I want to pay a crazy amount for the right to buy two seats? Of course not!! I understand though, if I’m going to be using the stadium, it’s reasonable to expect me to contribute more than someone not using it. I get that you don’t want to pay your PSL. None of us do. There will be PSLs that are probably as low as $1000. If someone can’t afford that, with 10 years to finance, they probably shouldn’t be buying season tickets. That’s $10 a month(ish). Fortunately, we all have the choice to pay it or not. If we want to keep our tickets, that’s what it’s costs now.

Bruh, I promise that you don’t want to do this. 😂😂😂 There are a bazillion venues that are owned by the public. That’s the tax money part. They all charge for tickets to events. You putting that on the list is hilarious. Like, “oh yeah, which of these venues CHAAARRRRRRGES for their tickets, smart guy?” You’re hung up on the PSL part. It’s okay that you don’t understand how it works. It’s a fee, PAID BY THOSE PLANNING TO CONSUME THE PRODUCT, for the right to purchase tickets, to offset some of the costs, that the private party incurs. So to be clear, you’re upset that THE PEOPLE CONSUMING THE PRODUCT are paying a fee for the right to buy a ticket to consume that product? Don’t you pay a fee on every single ticket that you buy? Isn’t that fee the right to buy a ticket? Lastly, why are you mad that those people that elect to buy tickets are charged a PSL? Shouldn’t you be more angry that tax money from people that may not care is being used to build this place? That feels like the cloud that you should be yelling at.

Lol, somebody come get your son. I can’t do this any longer…

Is this a serious question? Why do people double down and triple down when they’re wrong? Remember when you could just be wrong and move along? At any rate, MANY concert facilities / theaters are owned by the tax payers. As an example, Shea’s is owned by the City of Buffalo. All charge for tickets. Any fees associated with those tickets are the equivalent of a PSL. They are a fee for the right to buy a ticket.

Lol, felt like toilet paper fit well with Taco Bell

But it is the norm in entertainment. The tax payers fund the facility. The tickets cost what they cost. You pay a fee on top of that ticket price to be able to purchase the ticket. Why compare a sporting event to a Taco Bell instead of a sporting event to a theater or concert venue? You can compare ice cream to frozen yogurt or you can compare ice cream to toilet paper. I’m not sure why you’re electing the ice cream to toilet paper as opposed to ice cream to frozen yogurt.

Tax payer funded venues is an easy one. Paying for the ticket is 100% of the time. If you count TM fees or Stub Hub fees or whatever as “the right to buy the seat” all of your boxes are checked. This isn’t rare.

I knew that I liked you.

The difference between the 3rd and 4th, in terms of draft value is a mid 4th rounder. Basically the NFL took, the equivalent of the 117th pick away from the Bills.

I think either/both are possible. If one of the big 3 WRs slips to 9, I believe that the Bills are going to try to move all of the way up. If Thomas slips, I could see them trying to go up 7-8 spots. Otherwise I think they stay or go back in the 1st. I think in the 2nd it will be a defensive player. It could be on the DL or a safety. Depending on the board, they may slide up depending on who slips. If someone like Chop Robinson is on the board in the early ‘40’s, the Bills will be looking to go up. They have 11 picks. They won’t pick more than 7-8 guys at this point. They also won’t hesitate to use future capital to get a potential star. They don’t have enough top of the roster talent.

I think that is fair. I too think that is where most of the attrition will come from as a lot of them are long term people. I think your numbers are fair too. With 10 years to finance them, those will get snatched up in no time. We are hearing from the vocal minority now. If you have seats, in the lower level, at like the goal line, and they tell you it’s $7500 PSL, what percentage is REALLY walking away? It’s less than 15%. They can easily replace that. We aren’t hearing from the 85% that are buying them immediately. (Those are conservative guesses by the way. It could easily be north of 90%). Also, if you do the math and the Bills goal is to raise $200M(ish) from PSLs those estimates are high. Let’s assume that they raise $25M from the clubs ($20k-$50k). They need to raise $175M from the rest of the stadium. Let’s say that 20,000 seats average $2500 for PSL. That’s another $50M. Let’s say another 20,000 seats average $5000 for a PSL. That’s $100M more. That still leaves 10,000-15,000 seats for the other $25M. There’s your $200M. Play around with the numbers. The point being, these people terrified of the $50K PSLs don’t need to worry. The math doesn’t support there being many.

I’m not sure what we think is changing? Yeah, there will be some changes in the seats with the $50k PSLs. That’s probably 1,000 seats total and 70% will be people currently there. The stadium will be filled with the same people that are filling it now. The PSLs will all be sold. In a decade, after Josh, maybe some people start selling some of their seats but it’ll be full. That’s just what happens in the NFL now (and into the future). The Bills are hot and get big numbers on the resale market. This era of Bills football has created a new generation(s) of fans. People that are 35 and under were not around for the glory years. People 25 and under never saw the Bills competent until this era. Now, both of those groups are “in.” I’m 42 and my weekly group is anywhere from 10-55(ish). I’m on the older side of the group. Most everyone is in their 30’s. These people aren’t going away. The stadium will remain packed for many, many, many years.

Tickets are on the resale market for every team, in every league and every event in sports. Yes, there will be resale tickets available in the new stadium. There will also be tickets available on the resale market for the Super Bowl, Olympics, the Masters, the World Cup, the World Series, etc… Um, yes, I’d consider myself a fan. I’ve attended roughly 300 Bills games and seen them in 1/2 of the stadiums in the league. I followed them to London and would follow them to the moon if necessary. I’m not sure what my fandom has to do with this conversation?

I’m not speaking from “hope.” I’m speaking from experience working on a similar project. I’m not trying to be that guy but that’s not what’s happening here. Since before Pegula owned the team, I’ve laid out what would happen on this message board. I said things would happen a decade ago that are playing out just as I described. I know a little bit more on the topic than most others. This isn’t a “feeling” that I have. The Bills will be in WNY for AT LEAST 30 more years.

The PSLs will all be sold before the new stadium opens. I don’t mean to come across as so dismissive but holy 🤬. This isn’t a scenario that “might” happen. The seats will be sold and the Bills will be here for a generation. If anyone wants to have a deeper discussion on it, I’m open for it.

Basically it is working off Pegula’s portion.

The PSLs won’t be an issue. The waiting list will continue into the new stadium. That’s why they haven’t released the pricing on everything. It’s a moving target to meet demand. We may not ever see a time again where the Bills offer single game tickets to the public. The timing couldn’t be better for the Bills. They have Josh Allen in his prime.

I haven’t read the actual agreement but it is likely the latter.

I’m not trying to be dismissive but I worked on a lease negotiation for a team that people thought was going to “leave town.” It’s WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY more difficult than stroking an $850M check. Maybe I am being dismissive but I feel that I can speak to the topic from experience. They aren’t going anywhere for AT LEAST 30 years. Raising the price of season tickets doesn’t make up for it. That revenue is shared amongst the other teams in the league. It doesn’t work that way. I can’t believe that we are back to the “doom and gloom” team is moving nonsense. This is going on while the stadium is under construction. CLEARLY there are still some that do not understand the economics of the NFL. Everyone can take a deep breath, the Bills will be here for at least 30 more years. Uncle Kirby promises

Parody? If not, no the Bills aren’t going anywhere. This locks them in for a generation. They’ve never been more valuable than they are today. The NFL has never been hotter than right now. I’m 42 years-old and the Bills will be in WNY for my entire lifetime. “Selling fast” means that they are getting a high percentage of people saying “yes” not that the inventory is almost gone. This bodes well for those people hoping for lower PSLs. The higher the percentage of people that say “yes” at $20k or $50k, the better off it is for people that will be like $2k.

Okay, then he shouldn’t be cheering for Ankou either. He should be cheering for the draft pick(s) and UDFAs then to be DTs 5 and (maybe) 6. If we are out on Ankou & Williams competing for the 5th and (maybe) 6th spots because they are 30 & 31. We should probably have a separate thread on “What to look for in a 6th defensive tackle.”

Well, then they will be signing 3 more. They’ll bring AT LEAST 8 to camp of the 90. If this 31 year-old DT competing for the 5th or 6th DT, cheer for Ankou, draft pick(s) and rookie free agents.

Well they’ll draft 2 guys there. If you’re that concerned about the age of our 5th and 6th DTs (being under 31), advocate for Ankou and our 6th round pick over Williams.