Wayne Cubed

I'd say 20m seems about right and as you say, if the team can get closer to 19m they shouldn't think twice. If he wants 25m, that's where the the questioning has to begin. That 5m a year extra could be the difference in keeping an important player or signing a decent guard or very good role player. It's a gamble and the Seahawks would be betting on Wilson, that he can carry the team for a good period of time. I don't think he's proven that and I would wager that has come up in the contract talks. This process can't just be, "Well, he's the next QB to be up for a contract so he should get the biggest one now." Although, I'm fairly confident Luck will eclipse whatever Wilson gerts.

....in blood

Twitter going crazy saying he blew off some of his fingers.

His stats are great? Last season he wasn't top 10 for passes completed. He wasn't top 10 for yards. He wasn't top 10 for TDs. He wasn't top 10 for completion percentage. He was 10th for passer rating and 7th for yards/attempt. Hardly great. I'm not saying he isn't good, I don't think anyone is. It's just very hard to judge how good/great he is with the defense and running game. It's never been easier to pass in the NFL and with this defense why not pass and put up large chunks of points, then sit back on the running game and defense?

If he is so great, why doesn't he carry the offense more in the passing? Why don't the Seahawks throw more? There 454 passing attempts were last in the NFL. The Seahawks finished 27th in passing yards and 22nd in passing TDs. I know those are just stats but none of those come close to the "great" QBs. And to save the discussion going this route, all the truly great QBs make average WRs better. Brady does/did it. Rogers does/did it.

Yea nothing wrong with that label. He doesn't have to win games and sling the ball.

So wait, because the Seahawks have won more post season games, Wilson is the better post season QB, if all things were equal? Let's look at Wilson's passing stats a little more. In 3 years Wilson has played 8 post season games. He has attempted 202 passes, roughly 25 passes a game. He's completed 123 passes, roughly 15 a game. He's thrown for 1,820 yards, 227 per game. So an average playoff game for Wilson is 15/25 227 yards. He's also averages 1.5 TD's and .5 int per game. Now let's look at Luck. Luck has played in 6 postseason games. He has attempted 260 passes, 43 attempts per game. He's completed 147 passes, 25 per game. He's thrown for 1,829 yards, 304 per game. An average playoff game for Luck is 25/43 for 304 yard. Luck average's the same amount of TD's per game at 1.5 but his int average is 2 per game. Luck has played in less games but thrown for more yards and had more passing attempts. Look at those numbers side by side: 15/25 227 yards 1.5 TD's .5 INT's 25/43 304 yards 1.5 TD's 2 INT's To me, if they didn't have names attached to them, I'd say one of those is a game manager and the other is asked to win games with his arm. And that's further shown by the other areas of the team. The Seahawks rushing offense averages 121 yards per game, that's minus Wilson's rushes. They have 9 rushing TD's in 8 games. Seattle's defense on average allows a total of 336 yards per game, 224 yards passing and 111 yards rushing. Whereas the Colts rushers average 79 yards per game, minus Luck who averages about 25 YPG rushing. They have only rushed for 3 TD's in all 6 of their playoff games. The Colts defense on average allows 385 YPG, 230 yards passing and 154 yards rushing. They have allowed the Patriots** to rush for 177 and 234 yards. The two team situation's are very different if you ask me and if you gave Luck Seatte's rushing offense and defense, he would have won 2 Super Bowls.

J-E-S-T Jest! Jest! Jest!

It's not to say Russel Wilson had no effect on the team but they were in the process of building a monster defense, that started when Carroll was hired, when he was drafted. I don't think you can definitively say Wilson is elite. You just can't tell. I still think he will get his money from Seattle, it would career suicide for a GM not to let a QB who is in the top half of the league at his position.

Really? Ok lets look at the defense before and after he arrived, seeing as you only decided to focus on Lynch. In 2010, 2 years before Wilson arrived and Pete Carroll's first year, the defense gave up 4.2 YPC in the running game. That was 21st in the NFL. They gave up 249 YPG in the air, good for 27th in the NFL and a total yards per game of 368, which was also 27th. They were ranked 29th against the pass and 17th against the run. They allowed 25.4 points per game, 25th in the NFL. It's important to note that both Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas were drafted and Thomas, although a rookie, was the pest player on that defense. Far from a great defense. In 2011, Richard Sherman and KJ Wright were drafted. Thomas and Chancellor were no longer rookies. Alan Branch was a nice pick up along the DL. Again, building towards greatness. They improved their YPC against to 3.8, good for 4th in the NFL and their pass yards per game improved to 219 which was 11th. Their PPG allowed improved to 19.1, which was 7th. They were the 9th ranked defense. Again, this was good, not quite great yet. Would you call the San Diego Chargers defense from 2014 great? They were ranked 9th. By 2012, just about the entire defense had been rebuilt. They drafted another key defensive piece in Bruce Irvin. All of their statistical areas improved. They were ranked 6th against the pass and 10th against the run. Their overall defensive ranking was 4th. 2013 is the year it all came together. Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett were both picked up. This defense was truly great. 14.4 PPG. They only gave up 20 TD's all season, 16 pass and 4 rushing. That's crazy. They allowed 172 passing yards a game. Again, ridiculous, they only allowed one 300 yard passer. They had 39 turnovers including 28 interceptions. This defense was great. To me this looks like the defense was building towards greatness as Russell Wilson arrived. Russell Wilson didn't just show up to a team with a great tough defense and he was all that was needed. I'm sorry the facts just don't support that.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree here, they didn't have a great defense before Wilson got there. The defense was on a steady climb towards being great the years before Wilson arrived. In 2010, 2 years before Wilson arrived and Pete Carroll's first year, the defense gave up 4.2 YPC in the running game. That was 21st in the NFL. They gave up 249 YPG in the air, good for 27th in the NFL and a total yards per game of 368, which was also 27th. They were ranked 29th against the pass and 17th against the run. They allowed 25.4 points per game, 25th in the NFL. It's important to note that both Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas were drafted and Thomas, although a rookie, was the pest player on that defense. Far from a great defense. In 2011, Richard Sherman and KJ Wright were drafted. Thomas and Chancellor were no longer rookies. Alan Branch was a nice pick up along the DL. Again, building towards greatness. They improved their YPC against to 3.8, good for 4th in the NFL and their pass yards per game improved to 219 which was 11th. Their PPG allowed improved to 19.1, which was 7th. They were the 9th ranked defense. Again, this was good, not quite great yet. Would you call the San Diego Chargers defense from 2014 great? They were ranked 9th. By 2012, just about the entire defense had been rebuilt. They drafted another key defensive piece in Bruce Irvin. All of their statistical areas improved. They were ranked 6th against the pass and 10th against the run. Their overall defensive ranking was 4th. 2013 is the year it all came together. Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett were both picked up. This defense was truly great. 14.4 PPG. They only gave up 20 TD's all season, 16 pass and 4 rushing. That's crazy. They allowed 172 passing yards a game. Again, ridiculous, they only allowed one 300 yard passer. They had 39 turnovers including 28 interceptions. This defense was great. To say the defense was great before Russell Wilson arrived is completely inaccurate in my opinion. They were building towards greatness and a Super Bowl win culminated their rise to a truly great defense. If you don't think having a truly great defense, which was what 2013 was, had any bearing on their success and it was Russell Wilson joining the team that did it, I honestly don't know what to say.

So if you don't see any weakness in his game that precludes him putting up monster stats, why doesn't he do it? Are the Seahawks just toying with other teams? Why doesn't he attempt more passes? The NFL is a passing league, it's never been better for that, why opt to lean on a running game if Wilson is so capable of carrying a team?

He missed 35 plays or roughly 2 per game. Let's says for arguments sake those were all pass plays, he still only received 23.5% of the pass attempts. Is that better?

Sammy Watkins played 1027 snaps or 96.7% of the snaps for the season. You are grossly over exaggerating how many plays he took off.

Umm Watkins actually started all 16 games and had targets in each game. You can't count games OBJ wasn't in and had literally no chance of being targeted. It's not like he was active and Eli just didn't throw him the ball because he was injured.

Huh? The Giants for the season, all 16 games, attempted 607 passes. Odell Beckham did not play all 16 games. He played 12.

Sad to hear, RIP Mad Cap.

Uhhh: Dez Bryant Rob Gronkowski Demaryius Thomas Jimmy Graham Antonio Brown Goldan Tate I think you meant coming out of school he was. He isn't even top 5 for offensive skills positions in his draft class. He's probably not top 10 in all offensive position in his class with Iupati, Pouncey adn Okung

It looks like the points allowed average for the league in 1985 was 344.5, in 2014 it was 361.4. That's a 5% increase. So, if we apply that to what the Bears allowed in 1985(198 pts) the Bills in 2015 would need to be near 208. That's a bit of a way to go. Yards per game average for the league has increased roughly by 5% as well so the Bills would need to be at 271 YPG, which Seattle eclipsed in 2014. Average sacks in the league per team have gone down by 11%. I looked at 2013 as well and those sack numbers are down about the same amount as well. So the Bills aren't far off where they would need to be to compare to the 85' Bears. They would need 56 sacks. Interceptions have done down as well, by 34%. The Bills would need to intercept 22 balls. Rushing yards per game has gone down by 10% so the Bills would need at about 74 YPG. So here they are all together: Record: 15-1 Points Allowed: 208 Yds/G: 271 Sacks: 56 INTs: 22 Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 74

Fans will point to Marrone as the problem But for those numbers you posted his chances of running for zero/negative yardage was 1/5 times and the numbers support that, he hovers between 1/4 and 1/5 times career. I'm not sure how that compares to other backs in the league.

The Bills weren't ranked 22nd in YPA for rushing last year, they were 12th. Also, Philly was ranked behind Buffalo in total rushing yards, rushing TD's and yards per game.

The positive thread: where all the action happens.

I think the positive thread might be a better place to take my popcorn...

Maybe you know him by his none acronym name? Ol' Dirt Bastard of the Clan Wu Tang.

That's more than he said about Taylor after Tuesday's practice. Sal even specifically asked what he thought of Taylor's day.... Didn't mention Taylor once.