BigBuff423

I agree it should be a top priority, but I don't know that they "failed" in their back-up plan, not to be too picky with your choice of words - sorry if it comes off that way. But, this team needed so much (and still does) and coming into the year when their starting LG goes off for greener pastures and the QB, WR positions and the overall Defense was woefully inept, there's only so much you can do in one Offseason. And yes, FA is one good way to add talent and depth, but again, why overpay for something you don't know for sure is a demanding need? Is it one now? Absolutely, I don't think you have to be an Offensive Line expert to see the need to add Offensive line talent, LG and RT are two in my opinion that need to be addressed, through FA IMO as well since it takes time to develop those positions and if you really want to see if EJ can succeed, you need to be able to protect him and give him a pocket to pass from and hold him accountable for using that pocket. But you can't on one hand blame the guy for running or scrambling and then not give him a pocket to pass from. You need to build the pocket and then demand him to use it..IMO of course. I think to say the team "failed" to address it would be in THIS Offseason when their biggest issues CAN be addressed through the Draft, WR, OLB and TE. Maybe in that order, depending on available talent. I would like to see the O-line addressed in FA, I've said that already,but it bares repeating...

I believe the Levitre sentiments would be decidely different if it weren't for the money he was demanding. Now, I believe anyone should get paid as much as they can, but what he wanted was top tier money...and I just don't think a team like the BILLS have the luxury to pay a Guard such money. I would really like to have him, but not at that price.

The only point I would disagree with, and it's used frequently, is the term or phrase of "working harder". I don't think the coaches are lazy or apathetic toward wanting to produce a winning team or in their desire to produce a good, quality team. I think they're working very hard, watching film, doing drills, comparing notes and strategies, meeting with players, devising game-plans, etc. I think my issue would be working "smarter". The nuance here for me would be spending all that time watching film and the aforementioned many duties they do on a weekly basis, but then game time comes and all that information and preparation is not be utilized properly. Yesterday, wasn't too bad...but in a number of other games Hackett just did not seem to call a good game. I've been a critic of Hackett's for some time now, so my bias should be taken into consideration, but to me the biggest issue on this team is Special Teams as a whole (kicker not withstanding) and Offensive play-calling. Tampa Bay game they were flat as a group, but in most other games the passion and zeal was there...it was the direction of the Offense. And yes, the Defense needs to get better against the run, but primarily it's the Offensive play-calling that I think has cost the BILLS several games this year. And so, I don't think working "harder" per se is the answer, it's the "smarter" aspect that disturbs me more.

The most important aspect of changing the culture of this team. As fans we have been so desensitized to losing that we keep thinking of the Draft as hitting the lottery. And, "IF" the BILLS can Draft really high and have like, 10 #1 draft picks, they will become the Dynasty to end all Dynasties...yeah, um, NO! The only way to *be* a winning organization is to actually win! Despite the odds, despite the detractors, despite the injuries, and despite the previous culture of losing!! This team needs to *learn* how to win! Winning is a cultivated mind-set, it doesn't just happen...and getting this team to see the opportunity to win and then executing the win is tantamount to success at this point during Marrone's first year. Change will occur, no doubt in my mind, I can see the Dougs going to town on this roster when the season ends, but implementing a winning mentality is probably more important than anything else this team could do right now.

You could argue though, that a coach like that with winning results on his side gets no complaints from fans, ala Belichick. I understand your point, to not have a tyrant as a HC because of the potential negative consequence it has on morale in the locker room. But then again, Vince Lombardi was not exactly a feel-good HC or Parcells and now Billy Boy...but they all won too...which is my point, I agree that a HC needs to know his men and how to coach them, but it is way too soon to begin to question Marrone's style for the positive or the negative. And, as of right now, there's been no ostensible demonstration of Marrone choosing character over talent. Rogers was passed over by all the teams and it was the BILLS who gave him a chance, they didn't like what they saw - for whatever reason- but they gave him a chance, knowing his questionable character issues. That to me says they're willing to overlook some indiscretions, but they want to see heart and willingness to mature. Hopefully the kid has done that and will continue to do that, but you don't know it wasn't the BILLS cutting him that got him to wake up a bit and realize talent is only one third of what is required in the NFL. Hard work and a team mentality are the other parts of the whole.

All good and valid points for the argument that EJ simply needs more time and more experience. This, is the heartbeat of what BILLS' fans are missing due to their decade plus of frustration and disappointment. It's like trying to trust the next girlfriend after the last one was slappin nuts with one of your buddies, you "know" you can't distrust the current girl, but the horrific memory of your last girlfriend takin' it from your pal just won't leave your mind. EJ may very well be different, in terms of talent, leadership, and mental acumen to adjust to the NFL...problem is, too many times the previous QBs have left us jaded and unyielding in our ability to trust that EJ *CAN* be different...letting time tell this story is the hardest thing for a BILLS fan right now, because it's time and past experiences that have left us with utter disappointment.

In another thread someone lameted the loss of Gailey indicating a good Offensive mind would have this team in a better position at this point in the season. I disagree, but to the point of this post, Marrone already has a better record against Divsional opponents than Gailey had in his first year with two yet to play and if the BILLS even split those two games will have a better divisional record for a BILLS head coach in a long time. Winning the Division is job 1, and this team has a long ways to go before you can consider them a contender. And it's not just talent or coaching. It's a team mind-set, general perceived demeanor from the public's standpoint that needs to change. Which, will begin with winning and yes, an infusion of talent and better coaching, but it's an entire team mentality that has to change. And that change occurs from within the locker room, so adding talent or changing coaches should merely be symptomatic of the overall greater change - winning mentality. Period.

Regarding EJ's development: fair and valid point. Especially related to 2014

Yeah, that was kind of my point...in that, Detroit did start to right the ship and have become a contender in the NFC North, but it took a possible Hall of Fame WR and defeinitely freak of an athlete along with a new legitimate Franchise QB to make that turn, along with good Drafts to follow and some key additions. So, while I'm not in the party ready to anoint EJ as Buffalo's savior, I'm also not ready to burn the bridge he's standing on. I'd rather let next season play out and see what happens. I'm not encouraged by his play, but I try to take all things into account when evaluating the QB position and the team's wins / losses. Furthermore, there are so many teams that will be "QB needy" come Draft time, I think I'd rather see what Manuel brings before spending another high draft choice on QB. Now, that being said...if next year he doesn't demonstrate a true ability to be a good to great QB in the NFL at season's end and evaluating his total body of work, I'm all for drafting a QB at that point. But this team has serious other needs after just drafting the QB "of the future" in last year's Draft.

Who is an UFA?? Pettigrew? If that's the case, I don't blame the Lions for letting him walk, depending on his demands, but then again, Pettigrew is a decent blocker. Although their line is in better shape than it was when they drafted Stafford and Pettigrew's blocking skills may no longer be needed. And the Lions should be looking for a pass catching TE to take some pressure off of Megatron...

I will say this: remember when Detroit (and Buffalo) was the laughing stock of the NFL?? It all turned around in 2 Drafts with Megatron and Stafford. When Stafford was drafted, that franchise became one with hope but Stafford had all the gifts and intagibles to go with the pedigree he brought from Georgia. With that said, I don't "know" that Manuel is the Franchise, but I do know the BILLS are at least another stellar Draft away from being in contention. Plus, another decent FA period. As a side note, in the same year and the same round, 1st round, the Lions drafted Brandon Pettigrew, but NOT - repeat NOT - to be a pass catching TE, rather a blocking TE to give Stafford some protection. That was key, because as Pettigrew has struggled with pass catching relevance, he has been a solid blocker for Stafford overall and that's why the Lions drafted them together. Food for thought....

I'm not going to jump on the "stats lie" bandwagon, but I will say we're trying to compare apples and really old apples here...I'm not ready to toss Manuel out on the street, but comparing Jim Kelly's "rookie" season to EJ's would be ignoring a whole host of other X-factors that play into, namely the era of the NFL Jimbo played in versus now. As alluded to in an earlier post, the rules were different, the passing game was different, heck - the entire NFL and its culture was different. What I truly blame for the way the season has gone are three things: 1. Hackett's play-calling - at times its been horrendous, others it's been boring, and others it's just been "ok", but it has consistently lacked in imagination and audacity and sometimes, reasonable football intelligence; 2. ST has been abysmal, and you could argue that Marrone shouldn't have hired the ST's coach from Detroit when that ST squad did NOT play well last year, fair point, but rookie NFL coach and with Pettine's hire I'll give him a pass on this one; 3. Injuries...yes, every team has injuries, but this team is thin at depth (thank you Marv Levy and Dick-less Jauron), and the men who were starting are very young in some spots not to mention some turnover and Byrd being out for half the year. These three things in my mind contribute to the woes of the Buffalo BILLS this year. Now, if either Hackett doesn't get fired (which he won't) or Marrone take over for a couple games and show him how it's done so Hackett can improve too, then I put that on Marrone. If the ST's coach isn't fired, I put that on Marrone and injuries, well...we know how that goes. But comparing Jim Kelly in a different era of football is unfair to Kelly, not Manuel...because saying that EJ is having a similar rookie campaign as Kelly, is myopic and over generalized in comparisons.

I understand your sentiments...I truly do. At times I've wondered what it would be like to be on the winning end of a team I'm pulling for...and yes, the Giants do come to mind...that said, the frustration is rooted in the desire to see the team you've spent countless hours watching, from their games to their practice highlights, to their pre-season, to the Draft, to the news clips and soundbytes about the team and their day-to-day operations. And when you've invested that much time and energy, "walking away" isn't like the man who left his shovel near the hole he was digging only to find slate six feet down..it's more like the Thelma & Louise movie where they drive off the cliff...you commit football suicide by saying, "F-this!" and decide I'm done being invested...I will watch and with stress-free pleasure, but as I don't wallow in the losses, I won't soar with the wins...and therein lies the catch: to truly enjoy the game your heart and soul must bear some pride and hope with it and if you "walk away" from the team that lured your passion to it, you leave the reason you started the love affair with football to begin with...so, I may run for the hills and search for greener pastures, but right now, all I hear are the dark and breathy whispers from the other room telling me "the game is on...wanna watch?"...and despite my wish to leave out the front door, I find I'm hanging up my coat, grabbing a beer and settling in to my favorite place on the couch, knowing disappointment to follow...but paralyzed from leaving. Mr Vet, you are among friends...and this is your place of solace, as we all wish to be driving off that cliff, but alas Thelma's siren call keeps us home...hoping...waiting...for the love to be returned.

Assuming this move were outside of the Western NY area, or out of NY period?? Yes...if they went to Toronto I think I would feel worse about the move given the fact that if there were truly any fans in Toronto, they could make the drive to Buffalo and if they moved out of state...I'm done with the BILLS. What team *would* I become a fan of...?? Not sure, and hopefully don't have to make a decision on that....ever!

Yolo...why "welp"? Is that to mean you were hoping the BILLS would draft another QB? Just curious...

This points to my previous posts: draft an NFL ready OLB in 1st, tall and atheletic WR in 2nd, and TE in 3rd / 4th. The TE in that spot would be a good TE who needs a year or two to develop, which nearly every TE does. See all my previous posts about excellent TEs who are drafted in 3rd / 4th round...Witten, Cameron, Thomas, Graham, etc...and they usually take a year or two to become good TEs. That's why getting a guy like Moekai bodes well for the BILLS...he is NFL ready now, can help you win now and hopefully next year, while the team develops their long-term solution to TE...not to say they will draft a Graham or Witten, but they could, without sacrificing in the short-term. Good move IMO, both for the present and the future.

We live in a now-now-now, instant gratification society and trying to see this team as whole in its development in that light is a poor way of evaluating long-term success, which is what a front office needs to be analyzed for, not just this season. I understand the desire to see results RIGHT-F'IN-NOW because of our decade plus years in ineptability and failure to produce a quality and competitive team...that said, you cannot hold the sins of the former regime to the discredit of this one...to sum it up, I like what the FO has done thus far, but it is far too early to give it a "grade" as just like grades, you are evaluated on your body of work, and the season isn't even over yet therefore, it would be like asking a 2nd grader to jump to 3rd grade or repeat the year after only the third marking period, when grades change and the analysis of the entire year needs to be done. Let's wait before we start with the coup de'tat regarding Nix/Whaley/Marrone...if in two years it's still this bad despite increasing talent level, then Marrone needs to go..if talent is not added or the players brought in demonstrate their inability to play at the NFL level, then Whaley needs to be given an ultimatum as well...it's too soon for either though...IMO

The problem with that statement is that it continues the mentality held over from the last regime and the one previous to that, etc. It...needs....to....change. The idea is to win...period. Not tank, not give up, not let up, not ease down...WIN. And such a mentality is hard to recover from, even when you have an entire off-season to do it, hence why so many coaching changes make big impacts..KC anyone? Furthermore, this team seems to do well in the later draft rounds and in UDFAs, so it begs the question why is it so hard to draft really well in the early rounds, ala 1st and 2nd? This year with the Alonso pick it's an understatement to say the team did well and made a great pick, but previous drafts prove to be questionable in the early rounds. How can a team draft Kyle Williams in the 5th round that drafted Donte Whitner 8th overall when Ngata was sitting there for the picking?? It's mind boggling...not to mention the Russell Wilson debacle. And yet get SJ in the 7th...?? And yes, I'm off the SJ bandwagon, I want him gone...he's done more to hurt the team in clutch situations than he has to help the team in those same circumstances...ba-bye...don't let the door hit ya where God split ya... A solid Draft is a must...as it is every year, no matter who you are...the bigger issue, alluded to earlier in the discussion, is what the BILLS will do in FA. I'm not one to think they need to go bring in every FA that is out there and build a "superstar" team - because we see how that's worked out historically with teams like the Redskins several years ago and Miami this year - but some key additions need to be made. In fact, you could argue that the reason had such a solid Draft this year was that they made FA work for them with Lawson and Branch so they didn't *need* to go get those guys in the Draft and made drafting impact players much easier....

This is not directed at you personally, but I feel like Groundhog Day...having this same discussion all over again. But in all due respect, I disagree with the statement that "TEs who are going to be stars come out pretty strong". Because just 2 THIS year didn't start that way. Julius Thomas and Jordan Cameron were drafted in the 4th round in 2011 and it took them 2 years to develop before we asked, "Who ARE these guys?!" Witten and Graham were both 3rd round picks, Gronk was a 2nd but Hernandez was a 4th, Antonio Gates was a 3rd rounder...this list is signficantly longer of TEs taken in the 3rd and 4th round that turn out to be very good TEs if not spectacular. 1st round TEs are statistically a disadvantage. Gonzalez - who was drafted in a different era, and Vernon Davis - who people forget was considered a bust until Harbaugh turned that team around and has had a lot to do with his development, are two 1st rounders playing as expected. However Pettigrew still hasn't, Gresham has not, and Eifert has not "yet" but he's a rookie and that's kind of the point, he will take time to develop as well...most NFL positions do and investing a 1st round pick in a TE is a waste of a selection when history tells us that just as good, if not better, TEs are to be found a few rounds later. And, most of the TEs who end up being pheonmenal at their position, take a year or two to develop into such great receivers, route runners, and serviceable blockers. It takes time...no TE we draft next year will likely help this team a great deal, but a TE the BILLS draft next year, could prove to be very valuable as a part of the re-building process if the selection is wise and timely based upon draft position.

The other issue in pointing out the poor running attack is that for several games, and the last half against Cleveland, there were back-up and PS QBs...Thad did well against Miami but Tuel struggled against KC and in his relief at Cleveland. Its signficance is this: when an opposing Defense prepares for the games against the BILLS, do we not believe that their single mission was to STOP the RBs and make the aforementioned QBs beat them??? In other words, the perception was that the QBs would be struggling, so take away the BILLS' strength in the running game and make the QBs play...JETS did this but EJ was a solid QB in that game, and with the Steelers he was just coming back. So, it seems to keep it all fair, we should remember that the game plan in four or five of those games was to focus on their running game and put multiple fronts against the run....just a thought?

The TE discussion again...? woof...

Just ask RGIII, he's doing swimmingly... Ok, it's a fair point...I'm just being a smartass...

There is no debate in my mind that Offensive Line should be addressed, be it FA or in one of the first two rounds of the Draft - or both, but Spiller's health does play some part in all of this. Last year Spiller was a man on fire, and for sure he got better blocking with Levitre there, but there were also plenty of times his healthy running lead to a missed tackle that extra burst through the hole helped him evade that one arm coming over to slow him down. With that step missing and that full speed absent, sometimes I think the line looks worse based upon Spiller not being able to be Spiller-esque. Again, Offensive Line and run-blocking demands some much needed attention, but I believe that Spiller's numbers are more a reflection that he has yet to be fully healthy than the Offensive Line's poor play. LG shines brightly as a spot demanding attention, but RT is another serious area of concern...IMO of course.

To the point of a TE. I feel like a broken record but historically speaking with statistical averages in mind, there is NO, absolutely NO, benefit to taking a TE in the 1st round, especially if the BILLS were to draft at 10!!!! There are VERY FEW TEs that have done as prognosticated who have been drafted in the 1st round. Vernon Davis (who took several years to truly develop into a consistent receiver I might add) and Tony Gonzalez. The list is rife with incredible TEs who have been drafted in the 3rd or 4th rounds: Witten, Graham, Julius Thomas of Denver, Gates, and the list goes on. Gronk was in the 2nd but his homicidal cohort was a 4th round selection and talent and on-field production wasn't his problem. It behooves the BILLS to draft for the Offensive Line and/ or WR in the 1st and 2nd rounds, in either order they feel best based upon available talent and depth in the draft, and then draft a TE. Oh, and Jordan Cameron was also drafted in the 4th round, same year as Julius Thomas. It has taken 2 years for both TEs to "come out of nowhere" but that's most TEs and WRs. That's just the learning curve of the NFL at most positions. Deal with it, then get over it, and make a sandwich and relax. TEs are NOT worth a 1st round selection! Btw, the opposite tends to be true as well: Pettigrew, Eifert, Gresham, etc. don't make an immediate impact and often, get left behind in the NFL...reasoning for that is for another day and a longer post...despite this one being a bit long...

good riddance....enjoy golfing and bashing the BILLS in private...thank God